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Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions[W:425]

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Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

roguenuke said:
Actually my scenario is not saying that individuals cannot believe that leaving a child is wrong, only that a majority in those societies would see it as not wrong. Which means it would depend on circumstances. If someone is raised in a society that doesn't teach empathy well or worse teaches empathy is a bad thing, you are more likely to have more people that'd one see abandoning a child in need as wrong.
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I'll not disagree that we are products of our societies and that most people do not stray from societal norms. That aside, societal norms are not an actual valid position, imo. If so, then we'd have to accept all kinds of things around the globe and the concept of human rights would basically be meaningless. I'll add that you previously seemed to indicate that child abandonment was done out of need but this was not always the case. Eugenics has been around for a long time (e.g. Sparta). Also, some children were killed out of desire (e.g. feudalism/monarchy or any hereditary matters).

And no I will not call out specific people like that. It isn't hard to find them by looking at posts made that easily lead people to believe that some might. There are most definitely people in our own society who would and do do this.
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Do you believe they would walk past an abandoned baby in the gutter or do they just not support government programs and such to care for the child, which should be the responsibility of the parent? That aside, I'm pretty Libertarian and shy away from many government programs but I'll not let certain aspects of my ideology end up punishing children for the failures of their parents. For this reason, I support government programs for children up to a certain point, especially regarding healthcare.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Fishking said:
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in the Declaration of Independence. Also, it doesn't say, "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness at the expense of another's life".
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I made that distinction, once again your reading comprehension fails you. And it does on the 2nd part as well and you dont even realize it :doh



Fishking said:
So, we are talking about the right to privacy and due process. What about a law prohibiting abortion would violate due process? Would not the law itself be a legal mechanism that stipulates the legal process? Would they not in themselves be a legal procedure? Seems weak to state that there isn't due process as the law itself, passed by elected representatives, is inherently due process.

How about the right to privacy? Well, is the abortion being handled in the home, without outside interaction? Does it not take a professional third party to be involved in the process? Do we not regulate that relationship in any number of ways? Are doctors allowed to participate in suicide? How about doctors prescribing drugs? Can they just proscribe drugs whenever they want? How about this law that would have regulated what doctors do without consideration of their patients? Why is any number of things that should be considered private regulated?
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Once again your inability to process the words correctly has led to your inability to answer the question. I was specific: discover and prevent...without violating the rights women have to privacy and due process.

There is no 'life' to protect that supersedes the life and other rights of women. I didnt see you justify that, as asked.




Fishking said:
Hmmm...you didn't like having a ridiculous question aimed at you? Well then, maybe we can dispense from silly statements like implying that women's rights are not relevant and I'll refrain from asking why you hate babies. Deal?
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Why? Yours was a stupid emotionally-based question. Mine was on target and used to get you back on track to acknowledge that women also had a stake in this issue (which you had been ignoring...or dismissing... in the posts I read).
 
"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?"

"By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems. And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion. "

- Mother Teresa
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Lursa said:
Do you realize that the very fact that such garbage was proposed is the reason why these discussions go on and on in that sub-forum? This forum in general is a teeny but representative (IMO) microcosm of the general American public. And stuff I read here can be terrifying to any American who wishes to remain free.
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I also realize there is an abortion subforum for just this. The Breaking News portion is over, it was not signed into law. Nothing to see here.No one else is going to offer any new argument that has not been made in the abortion subforum.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Fishking said:
Nope, but there are plenty that have certain organs that don't function, like diabetics.
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And when none work they get disconnected.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

prometeus said:
And when none work they get disconnected.
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Well, in the case of the majority of abortions, the unborn's organs are working as intended for their stage of life.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

prometeus said:
No, its an incapacity to live.
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Right, so they are dependent. Thanks for basically just defining it and basically agreeing with me.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Fishking said:
Well, in the case of the majority of abortions, the unborn's organs are working as intended for their stage of life.
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They have no functioning organs. Which part is so difficult for you to grasp?
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Fishking said:
Well, in the case of the majority of abortions, the unborn's organs are working as intended for their stage of life.
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In most abortions, the organs are not working at all because they aren't developed enough to work. Most abortions happen during the first trimester.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Fishking said:
Right, so they are dependent. Thanks for basically just defining it and basically agreeing with me.
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Are you purposely obtuse or this real density?
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

prometeus said:
They have no functioning organs. Which part is so difficult for you to grasp?
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Their function at that time is to develop. So they are working as intended. That aside, the heart starts beating at 5 weeks.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

prometeus said:
Are you purposely obtuse or this real density?
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No, you agreed with me. Thanks for the support.
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

Logicman said:
You guys really should read the Bible sometime. In this case, do a study on the Holy Spirit. Then try debunking the resurrection.
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Why, does the Bible explain how something that is invisible can be clearly seen?
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

TheGoverness said:
The Roe v Wade ruling is NOT unconstitutional, no matter how much you think it is.
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prometeus said:
Your post proves otherwise.

So it is dishonest misrepresentation then.

The right to privacy is a well established fact, predating the abortion issue, so your lacking civics skill is showing again.

Except for blacks women and children. So much for your clarity.

That would be a valid argument if the Constitution recognized fetuses and if the government were performing abortions. As it is, it is little more than another argument made out of ignorance.

That of the pregnant woman, not the fetus. Some stated allowed abortion and it was not a constitutional issue.

Yea, yea, yea, more ignorant talking points, but nothing intelligent or relevant.
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I've moved this debate to the abortion section: http://www.debatepolitics.com/abort...ns-anything-womens-rights.html#post1065893979
 
Re: Oklahoma Legislature Passes Bill Making it a Felony to Perform Abortions

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