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Ok. Someone Explain the Women's Rights and Protests against Trump

Arcana XV

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Well sure. Because the NRA is like any other large and established organization. It is tainted by "bias" regardless of whether or not the point is valid. But the topic itself does not exist in a vacuum. Personally? I feel the left hijacked the feminist movement and
did it a great disservice. And depoliticizing the issue and discussion on the topics themselves is the only way forward.


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The left "hijacked" the feminist movement because the right stood by and allowed it to happen. Conservative and/or religious agendas were not compatible with the massive social upheaval that happened when women walked out of their kitchens and decided they wanted more out of life than just being Mom and Wifey.
Instead of adapting to the new normal, the right pushed back against it with all its might. Women flocked to where they found support for, not opposition to their newly aquired freedom. :shrug:
 

blackjack50

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Others already addressed the policy grievances like equal pay, title ix. Forcing insurance to provide birth control is one i would add, but the real reason they would mobilize in such #s is an extremely sexist president and his threats against abortion.

The last kind of makes them look like fools to me. Roe v wade has survived hugely religious zealot presidents like Reagan and Bush II. It's not going anywhere. It doesn't really matter either. The # of actual abortions is plummeting due to easy access to pills that get the job done. But it's one of those highly divisive issues and women just don't like being told what to do with their body
Thank you. Now we can proceed with discussion.

The pay gap. That is one I don't understand. It is already illegal to pay women less than men. Can you explain that one? Or do you think it is not a primarily true incident?


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blackjack50

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blackjack50

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The left "hijacked" the feminist movement because the right stood by and allowed it to happen. Conservative and/or religious agendas were not compatible with the massive social upheaval that happened when women walked out of their kitchens and decided they wanted more out of life than just being Mom and Wifey.
Instead of adapting to the new normal, the right pushed back against it with all its might. Women flocked to where they found support for, not opposition to their newly aquired freedom. :shrug:
The problem is that women are not a single voting block. If they were universally democrat...we would never have a republican. 53% of the population. The majority. Women are conservative as well. I wouldn't say the right "let it happen." I would say that both parties take movements and hijack them for political points. Guns and republicans is a good example.


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HonestJoe

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I keep seeing crap all over Facebook. (And I call it crap because it is basically just memes and protest signs. If you can't provide more context and justify your belief...conservative or otherwise it is crap) I don't seem to understand the issue. So I'm really wondering. Can someone explain how women are suffering from inequality? And what is it that is being protested? And why is trump the anti symbol? Is it the famous comment? The single comment?
It seems to be a whole collection of organisers and hangers-on, all with different concerns, issues, aims and priorities. Trump’s election has brought them together partly because it was a big political jolt and partly because he is seen to represent so many of their concerns (fairly or not).

I think it’s a lot like the Tea Party movement in this context. It was triggered by people with a specific set of aims but attracted a whole range of different people with different motives and aims.
 

Arcana XV

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The problem is that women are not a single voting block. If they were universally democrat...we would never have a republican. 53% of the population. The majority. Women are conservative as well. I wouldn't say the right "let it happen." I would say that both parties take movements and hijack them for political points. Guns and republicans is a good example.


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I think the demographic that usually tips the scales to one side or the other are Independent voters. No candidate ever wins the White House without a sizable chunk of that demographic.

I do agree that both parties tend to claim certain issues as their own and use them to try and gain voters.
 

Manc Skipper

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blackjack50

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They came for the brown women's reproductive rights, and I did nothing....
I have no idea what you are talking about. This bill though...is about funding...in other nations.

As for abortion...are you willing to admit that you are ending a heartbeat when an abortion happens?


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Thank you. Now we can proceed with discussion.

The pay gap. That is one I don't understand. It is already illegal to pay women less than men. Can you explain that one? Or do you think it is not a primarily true incident?


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It is illegal, and they're afraid given Trump's highly sexist behavior those protections will disappear if they don't stand up to it. Kind of like how anti discrimination laws for lgbt disappear in places like north carolina and texas. Then it has to be litigated which can take years

The other aspect is women on average suspiciously do make less for the same work as is, and it's expected that sexism that's pervasive in the corporate and small business world is at least partly to blame. Again, the idea behind organizing is it lets everyone know you do have value and power and rights despite your gender. Being proactive is a lot more likely to succeed than hoping every single case of wage and promotion and hiring discrimination wins in court

But again, this is murky because a lot of women do spend time away from work (my aunt spent 15 years raising kids) and so when they reenter the workforce they get paid less because, well, they have less experience, and not because Trump-level sexism

So in this case, i say they should fight against any attempt to repeal title ix and the civil rights act or god forbid the 14th amendment, let people know wage discrimination does exist in spite of the laws, but acknowledge there are legitimate reasons some women are paid less for the same work
 

chromium

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I have no idea what you are talking about. This bill though...is about funding...in other nations.

As for abortion...are you willing to admit that you are ending a heartbeat when an abortion happens?


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I think you miss the point that reproductive rights includes affordable birth control, like planned parenthood which gets vilified by republicans

Look, my brother's wife recently miscarried after they heard the heartbeat (6 weeks). This is devastating to them, because it will take 3 months+ to reach the same point and they had picked out cribs and toys and told the family to expect a grandkid and etc. Not because they considered it the same as losing a 2 year old

Consider the cases where people are kept heart beating on life support despite being brain dead, and the plug gets pulled. This is because they are not a person any more. They have no consciousness, no experience. They cannot form new memories. It's largely uncontroversial. Similarly, a fetus doesn't begin brain activity for 12 weeks minimum. To call it living before this point to me is absurd. To call it a potential life, well yes, but so is sperm. The degree to which this "loss" is felt should be between the parents as described above. It's not felt by the sperm or the fetus that hadn't even formed brain activity
 

chromium

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The problem is that women are not a single voting block. If they were universally democrat...we would never have a republican. 53% of the population. The majority. Women are conservative as well. I wouldn't say the right "let it happen." I would say that both parties take movements and hijack them for political points. Guns and republicans is a good example.


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I think women are harder to mobilize behind a single point than say race or sexuality or unions. Maybe they spend so much time competing with each other but also, yeah, there are women who are religious or whatever and tell themselves they will never need an abortion, they would never do that. Or they can afford birth control so they don't care about planned parenthood funding. Or they aren't working or their husband makes most income, so they don't care about wage discrimination. And then still, others have no dignity to care about sexist comments by the president either, or avoid politics altogether

But as you can see, hundreds of thousands did gather in DC. And if their grievances worsen, they have a lot of influence over their husbands as well, so it is a problem for the current republican party. Bush II didn't have this problem because he wasn't a PR disaster waiting to happen in the same way
 

apdst

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The rally was to protect things like the rights to one's own body, the right (and yes, RIGHT) to equal pay, and to defend against the blatant misogyny exhibited by our new "president."

It will likely accomplish nothing, but it was nice to see a lot of people out there telling this bastard that he is not our president. He's not mine, and he never will be.

I have detested Donald Trump for damn near three decades, and that ain't about to change because idiots voted for him. He's human garbage. I have no respect for him or anyone who supports him.
I doubt many of them had a clue why they were there.

https://www.google.com/amp/nytlive....rtners-of-the-womens-march-on-washington/amp/
 

Absentglare

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A picture paints a thousand words. Trump signs anti-abortion executive order surrounded by middleaged men.

But people told me he was a woman's rights hero because he hired and even *gasp* promoted a few women!!
 

chromium

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May I ask, did these same women protest Bill Clinton (Mr. Misogynist, if it has two boobs, two legs and a heartbeat I will screw it, himself) when he was President, because he did a lot more than "grab *****"! Did they protest Hillary Clinton defending her husband's screwing around (and I would bet there are a lot who never made it to the news)? If they didn't then they are hypocrites.
He was impeached for it. They didn't need to do anything
 

chromium

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I guess add to the list of reasons, apparently there are 10,000 untested rape kits in this country. That is justice (for the guy as well, if the accusation was false) delayed or denied due to lack of funds, another problem that could worsen with a "grab em by the *****" president

I guess the religious right just enjoys it when rapists aren't caught. Anything to defund an organization that spends a whopping 3% of its budget on abortion
 

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I keep seeing crap all over Facebook. (And I call it crap because it is basically just memes and protest signs. If you can't provide more context and justify your belief...conservative or otherwise it is crap) I don't seem to understand the issue. So I'm really wondering. Can someone explain how women are suffering from inequality? And what is it that is being protested? And why is trump the anti symbol? Is it the famous comment? The single comment?

Now. Understand before you weigh in here...I'm going to be questioning your views. If that offends you...please take your snowflake ass elsewhere.


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I'm not the best speaker for feminists. I tried taking a couple of those classes in college and was put off by the man blame thing. But...

It's kind of a slap in the face to women. Literally, that comment means he commits sexual assault. And there are no ramifications for him. He walked in on underage nude teen pageant contestants. A sex offender list worthy crime. No consequences. Young girls today are going to grow up with a president who feels he can sexually assault them. Because he is a celebrity. They let you do that. I think he meant the justice system lets him do that more than the women did, but that is neither here nor there.

However to throw a curve. Any woman who marched on any of these reasons, and I'm sure there are at least a couple, must support BLM as a matter of integrity.
 

chromium

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I'm not the best speaker for feminists. I tried taking a couple of those classes in college and was put off by the man blame thing. But...

It's kind of a slap in the face to women. Literally, that comment means he commits sexual assault. And there are no ramifications for him. He walked in on underage nude teen pageant contestants. A sex offender list worthy crime. No consequences. Young girls today are going to grow up with a president who feels he can sexually assault them. Because he is a celebrity. They let you do that. I think he meant the justice system lets him do that more than the women did, but that is neither here nor there.

However to throw a curve. Any woman who marched on any of these reasons, and I'm sure there are at least a couple, must support BLM as a matter of integrity.
Agree about Trump should have been arrested by now, but BLM has intruded upon and disrespected other rights movements, such as their actions in Toronto and elsewhere to block the gay parades, because they hate cops who participate. They have taken legitimate grievances and become extremist

A person can support a cause without supporting every individual and group that shares said cause. Otherwise the half a million women in DC would all have to support Madonna's "blow up the white house"
 

chromium

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But people told me he was a woman's rights hero because he hired and even *gasp* promoted a few women!!
Well someone has to undress and twirl in front of his desk on demand!
 

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Can someone explain how women are suffering from inequality? And what is it that is being protested? And why is trump the anti symbol? Is it the famous comment? The single comment?
Do you actually expect me to believe that if it was explained you'd even listen? If people like yourself were capable of grasping these simple concepts then we wouldn't have these problems and we wouldn't be stuck with this piece of **** in the white house.

About 90-95% of all institutions of power in this country are controlled by men. Usually white christian men. If you want a job, you're almost certainly going to have to convince a man to give it to you, if you deserve a promotion, you're almost certainly going to need a man to give it to you, if you write your congressmen you're almost certainly writing a man, if you get pulled over it's virtually guaranteed that the police officer will be a man. Judges, religious leaders, business owners, the media.... all controlled by men.

How would you like it if 90% of congress and the president were women with 6 out of 9 supreme court justices also women, who then started passing laws that only curtailed the rights of men?

If men had the ability to get pregnant there would be a planned parenthood on every street corner. They'd be like Starbucks where you could get birth control and abortions. Men, particularly conservative men have absolutely no ****ing clue what it's like to be a woman in this society. To be treated like objects to be controlled and ruled over by men. Trump is the definition of a misogynist. Pieces of **** like that should have gone extinct 60 years ago, and instead he's trying to take us backwards in time when the basic rights women have been fighting against for decades didn't exist.

In a country that is made up of 50% women it is unacceptable to have men who have absolutely no respect for them whatsoever in control of all the laws and institutions that govern over them.
 

CycloneWanderer

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I think women are harder to mobilize behind a single point than say race or sexuality or unions. Maybe they spend so much time competing with each other but also, yeah, there are women who are religious or whatever and tell themselves they will never need an abortion, they would never do that. Or they can afford birth control so they don't care about planned parenthood funding. Or they aren't working or their husband makes most income, so they don't care about wage discrimination. And then still, others have no dignity to care about sexist comments by the president either, or avoid politics altogether

But as you can see, hundreds of thousands did gather in DC. And if their grievances worsen, they have a lot of influence over their husbands as well, so it is a problem for the current republican party. Bush II didn't have this problem because he wasn't a PR disaster waiting to happen in the same way
Is it just me or is there some subtle sexism going on in this post? Women can't get along because they see each other as competition? For what? The women who are against abortion believe so because they are inconsiderate and egocentric? They don't march against wage discrimination probably because they don't work and are reliant on men? If they are upset enough they'll take it out on their husbands?

I don't think you're sexist, but damn that's a lot in that post that raises eyebrows.
 
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Bark

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Agree about Trump should have been arrested by now, but BLM has intruded upon and disrespected other rights movements, such as their actions in Toronto and elsewhere to block the gay parades, because they hate cops who participate. They have taken legitimate grievances and become extremist

A person can support a cause without supporting every individual and group that shares said cause. Otherwise the half a million women in DC would all have to support Madonna's "blow up the white house"
I fully agree about supporting causes over individuals.

Some folks in BLM have intruded, etc... Some have apologized for that. Some have been at meetings telling people not to do that. Some are respectable college students who organize on campus. Some are thugs just looking for a store to loot. Some carry illegal guns. Some are vetted and carry legally. It is a big movement. And just like every other movement there is no brush big enough to paint it in one stroke.

Fact is, as I see it is all, what I hear from them as the central theme is there need to at least be trials for cops. You find one here or there, but when an emotionally unstable cop who cries on the gun range gets a call from a dispatcher who failed to say it might be a toy and drives up to within feet of a "possibly armed suspect," exposing himself the whole way up, gets out and kills a 12 year old quicker than he can speak then body slams and detains said dead's sister and faces not even a trial?!?! Same thing as Trump getting grabby. Failure to prosecute. Failure to protect and serve. Failure to make the class of the victim feel like they get to be the America we say we are. Freedom, liberty, get grabbed, shut up maybe you wont get fired for getting grabbed.
 

CLAX1911

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I think you miss the point that reproductive rights includes affordable birth control, like planned parenthood which gets vilified by republicans
Planned Parenthood kills babies in the womb. That's about as Vilnius as you can get. Further you don't need planned Parenthood to get birth control.
 
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