Ok Cons, heres your chance to declare where you stand in Iraq!

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Whos lifes are more important to you:
The Iraqi peoples lifes OR our Troops lifes?
~~~
Libs have alwready chosen "our Troops lifes."
~~~

 

[jfuh]

Whos lifes are more important to you:
The Iraqi peoples lifes OR our Troops lifes?
~~~
Libs have alwready chosen "our Troops lifes."
~~~

Actually, all lives are very important to me. Put push comes to shove our people have priority.

 

[Cephus]

Our troops' lives, no question about it. Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*! Can't we leave these poor people alone to live as they see fit, not as we want them to live?

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

So, no posts from the hard core Cons?:waiting: I guess they are too embarrassed to let everyone know that they choose the Iraqis lifes as being more important than our troops lifes.:roll:
SAD!

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Our troops' lives, no question about it. Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*!

Hogwash.
The place was a snake-pit before 1776.
We're just a recent player in the age old meddling in the region.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

So, no posts from the hard core Cons? I guess they are too embarrassed to let everyone know that they choose the Iraqis lifes as being more important than our troops lifes.
SAD!

Have you ever run across the term "false dichotomy" before?

 

[Just Me 2]

So, no posts from the hard core Cons?:waiting: I guess they are too embarrassed to let everyone know that they choose the Iraqis lifes as being more important than our troops lifes.:roll:
SAD!

What a bunch of crap!!! You are asking people to put a value on a human life. It is a catch 22 question. If we say our troops them people will say we are neocons and don't care about who we kill, but if we say the Iraqis then we hate America and the troops. It's bullsh!t. A person can care about all human life and not hate America or the troops.

 

[Cephus]

Hogwash.
The place was a snake-pit before 1776.
We're just a recent player in the age old meddling in the region.

Just saying that others screwed with it before we did doesn't excuse our responsibility for our actions in the region. We are, by far, the biggest pain in the *** in the Middle East in modern history. Whatever happened to their right to self-determination?

Oh right, they've got oil. So much for their rights.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Just saying that others screwed with it before we did doesn't excuse our responsibility for our actions in the region.

True and?

the point under contention is, "Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*!"

The instability was there to begin with and we're just mucking with it.

 

[cherokee]

Whos lifes are more important to you:
The Iraqi peoples lifes OR our Troops lifes?
~~~
Libs have alwready chosen "our Troops lifes."
~~~

Our troops lives.
Since they (Iraqis) don’t care about building a better place I don’t give a chit about the people of Iraq anymore. As far as I’m concerned pull back to Kuwait and turn the country into a wasteland.

Is that a clear enough answer for you?

 

[talloulou]

Globalization has made the world much smaller and these festering pockets of the world that house backwards throwbacks to the middle ages have to eventually be cleaned up. The world is simply too small to have different civilizations attempting to coexist simultaneously while belonging to different eras. I think many in the Middle East recognize that and they know that their backward ways won't survive as the world continues to shrink and its no longer possible to keep the ways of the west out so they fight. The ones that don't eventually learn to adapt and evolve will be annihilated because the behaviors and beliefs they cling to have no place in the future and they've proven time and time again that they refuse to co-exist.

As far as invading Iraq in particular, in my opinion, it was sound strategy. Iraq was in violation of the UN. And after we attacked they say terrorists poured into Iraq from all over the region. So I say GENIUS. No sense in playing where's WALDO when you can draw them right to you like moths to a flame. Whether or not it goes down in history as a begining step in cleaning up the middle east...well it's too early to tell. But I firmly believe it is not a matter of weighing the life of an Iraqi against the life of one of our soldiers. I couldn't be more proud or have more respect for our soldiers because I know they risk their lives not only for me and my children but generations and generations to come.

 

[Cephus]

the point under contention is, "Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*!"

The instability was there to begin with and we're just mucking with it.

That's like saying that because the U.S. didn't cause the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, none of it's our fault. Come on, we're talking modern era problems, do try to keep up.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

That's like saying that because the U.S. didn't cause the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD, none of it's our fault. Come on, we're talking modern era problems, do try to keep up.

If the US hadn't decided to play in the ME mud, at what point would it have been stable?

 

[Cephus]

If the US hadn't decided to play in the ME mud, at what point would it have been stable?

At least they wouldn't have been flying planes into our buildings. Personally, I don't care if the entire Middle East gets nuked into a glass desert, outside of the fallout issue, that's probably the best thing we can hope for. It's little more than a bunch of children kicking sand at each other.

 

[Tashah]

At least they wouldn't have been flying planes into our buildings. Personally, I don't care if the entire Middle East gets nuked into a glass desert, outside of the fallout issue, that's probably the best thing we can hope for. It's little more than a bunch of children kicking sand at each other.

Although it would obviously make things a bit more convenient for you, I would rather not be nuked thank you.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

At least they wouldn't have been flying planes into our buildings. Personally, I don't care if the entire Middle East gets nuked into a glass desert, outside of the fallout issue, that's probably the best thing we can hope for. It's little more than a bunch of children kicking sand at each other.

So we're agreed that the ME would be a snake pit with or without US involvement?

 

[oldreliable67]

Our troops' lives, no question about it. Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*! Can't we leave these poor people alone to live as they see fit, not as we want them to live?

Well, no. The single largest cause of instability in the ME in modern times was, regardless of whether you think it good or bad, the creation of the state of Israel. The resulting implacable hatred between Israelis and Arabs begs the question: how does anybody begin to contemplate a settlement, how can peace ever become a reality in such an environment?

There is a dedication in the Islamic world to removing Israel off the face of the map and an equal determination in Israel to survive. What is of real concern is that this new form of Holocaust - thats what it really is, an extermination program - gets the bulk of its inspiration from Iran.

For those who believe that Iran is simply trying gain nuclear power for peaceful purposes, do a little research on the number of Iran-bound clandestine shipments of weapons grade nuclear material and bomb-making equipment that have been intercepted in recent years. Try the IAEA, the Guardian, Janes, et al.

Iraq may get the majority of headlines these days, because thats where the US effort is currently centered, but US efforts in Iraq are certainly not the root cause of ME instability. Exacerbated? Perhaps. But root cause? No.

 

[Cephus]

Well, no. The single largest cause of instability in the ME in modern times was, regardless of whether you think it good or bad, the creation of the state of Israel. The resulting implacable hatred between Israelis and Arabs begs the question: how does anybody begin to contemplate a settlement, how can peace ever become a reality in such an environment?

It probably can't and I agree with you, the formation of Israel was a horrible, horrible mistake. The US and UK felt guilty over the holocaust so they caved in and granted Israel a spot guaranteed to piss everyone off.

There is a dedication in the Islamic world to removing Israel off the face of the map and an equal determination in Israel to survive. What is of real concern is that this new form of Holocaust - thats what it really is, an extermination program - gets the bulk of its inspiration from Iran.

What do you expect? You've got religious zealots on both sides who hate the other's guts and want nothing more than to see everyone on the other side dead. Add to that all the Dominionist Christians in the US who want to see Israel raise the new temple and usher in the end of the world... it's all a bunch of lunatics.

Iraq may get the majority of headlines these days, because thats where the US effort is currently centered, but US efforts in Iraq are certainly not the root cause of ME instability. Exacerbated? Perhaps. But root cause? No.

No, but it's U.S. involvement in the Middle East that has caused the problems. Who helped put Israel there? The U.S. Who has protected them? The U.S. Who has supplied a ridiculous amount of foreign aid, weaponry, etc. The U.S.

 

[PrimBabUB]

Although it would obviously make things a bit more convenient for you, I would rather not be nuked thank you.

I can sure see your point. Do you think you might, perhaps, want to make a mass 'exodus' until things would be safe. That might be a plan. Perhaps, parting the seas to America, then, when the dust settles, go back.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Globalization has made the world much smaller and these festering pockets of the world that house backwards throwbacks to the middle ages have to eventually be cleaned up. The world is simply too small to have different civilizations attempting to coexist simultaneously while belonging to different eras. I think many in the Middle East recognize that and they know that their backward ways won't survive as the world continues to shrink and its no longer possible to keep the ways of the west out so they fight. The ones that don't eventually learn to adapt and evolve will be annihilated because the behaviors and beliefs they cling to have no place in the future and they've proven time and time again that they refuse to co-exist.

As far as invading Iraq in particular, in my opinion, it was sound strategy. Iraq was in violation of the UN. And after we attacked they say terrorists poured into Iraq from all over the region. So I say GENIUS. No sense in playing where's WALDO when you can draw them right to you like moths to a flame. Whether or not it goes down in history as a begining step in cleaning up the middle east...well it's too early to tell. But I firmly believe it is not a matter of weighing the life of an Iraqi against the life of one of our soldiers. I couldn't be more proud or have more respect for our soldiers because I know they risk their lives not only for me and my children but generations and generations to come.

_________
So, you admitt that Bushs war in Iraq brought all the terrorists there.
Since when did we the U.S.A. become the "cleaner uppers of the middle east?"
Iraq was in violation of the UN? So are many other countrys. Do you think we should invade every country that is in violation of the UN?

 

[Tashah]

It probably can't and I agree with you, the formation of Israel was a horrible, horrible mistake. The US and UK felt guilty over the holocaust so they caved in and granted Israel a spot guaranteed to piss everyone off.

The modern State of Israel was created by UN Resolution 181.

Yea-33-Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussia, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine, Union of South Africa, USSR, USA, Uruguay, Venezuela (Among other countries, the list includes the US, the three British Dominions, all the European countries except for Greece and the UK, but including all the Soviet-block countries).

Nay-13-Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen (Ten of these are Muslim countries).

Abstain-10-Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.

Per the UN tally, your claim that a US/UK vote alliance created Israel is simply not true... as they each voted differently.

 

[Tashah]

I can sure see your point. Do you think you might, perhaps, want to make a mass 'exodus' until things would be safe. Perhaps, parting the seas to America, then, when the dust settles, go back.

Although imagining the Atlantic collapsing upon Hamas and Fatah is great imagery, I think not lol.

 

[VTA]

It probably can't and I agree with you, the formation of Israel was a horrible, horrible mistake. The US and UK felt guilty over the holocaust so they caved in and granted Israel a spot guaranteed to piss everyone off.



What do you expect? You've got religious zealots on both sides who hate the other's guts and want nothing more than to see everyone on the other side dead. Add to that all the Dominionist Christians in the US who want to see Israel raise the new temple and usher in the end of the world... it's all a bunch of lunatics.



No, but it's U.S. involvement in the Middle East that has caused the problems. Who helped put Israel there? The U.S. Who has protected them? The U.S. Who has supplied a ridiculous amount of foreign aid, weaponry, etc. The U.S.

Excuses and misinformation.
America and the UK didn't feel 'guilty' and had no reason for appeasement. Long before WWI, the UK, who controlled the land of Palestine, were in works to create a homeland in Israel for the Jews. The Balfour agreement was given consent by the League Of Nations in 1920. Quite a bit before the holocaust.

American involvement in Israel does have some tangible cause to much of the fighting, but that egg can't be laid squarely on America. With or without America there, the retrograde ideology would exist, it would spread (See the atrocities in Asia, and try to link the Buddhists and Christians plight there with Israel) regardless.

As for foreign aid, who is that has supplied all of them with ridiculous amounts? Egypt? The PLO? Lebanon? They all get American money and the choice is simple, build something fruitfull, like a university, or give it to low lives who'd rather kill themseves in the commission of bombing a store.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Whos lifes are more important to you:
The Iraqi peoples lifes OR our Troops lifes?
~~~
Libs have alwready chosen "our Troops lifes."
~~~

The lives of our troops and those Iraqi's who are actively seeking a Democratic Iraq are equally important. And I believe the word you are looking for is "lives," you know as in the plural of life?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Our troops' lives, no question about it. Most of the instability in the Middle East has been caused by... wait for it... *US*!

Actually I would say that the greatest cause for instability in the ME is... wait for it... Middle Easterners.

Can't we leave these poor people alone to live as they see fit, not as we want them to live?

Ya we should have left the Germans to live as they saw fit too, oh wait we did that from 1939 to 1941, it worked out real well for us too. :roll: