Oil Production and Oil Pricing is a National Security Concern

[RealityNow]

Would you support a rationing of gas under the umbrella of National Security. I am thinking more along lines of everyone gets say 10-14 gallons a week at market price. If you need more then it’s at a higher price say extra dollar or so a gallon with extra taxes specifically for road infrastructure. All in the name of protecting a National Security concern. EV, hybrid, motorcycle owners would have either a fee or reduced allotment depending on applicability

I'd say something for sure needs to be done under the premise and principle of "National Security"...

Energy is a "National Security Commodity".

 

[Chillfolks]

I'd say something for sure needs to be done under the premise and principle of "National Security"...

Energy is a "National Security Commodity".

I am not sure a tax on oil companies is the right direction as I see it causing more harm than good

 

[Grandpappy]

Hmmmmm. Mean old, bad old Orange man didn't have this problem.
Poor old Joe.

 

[RealityNow]

I am not sure a tax on oil companies is the right direction as I see it causing more harm than good

I did not say a tax on Oil Companies... I am thinking of "more government regulatory oversight" regarding "Oil Companies" and "Refineries'.

My personal opinion is, "The Government" should be the "Accounting and Administrative Clearing House for Oil Production and Oil Imports"

------------------------------

U.S. Energy Information Administration - Does a lot of work regarding "Energy Production Forecasting"

quote

Refinery closures decreased U.S. refinery capacity during 2020​

As a result of several U.S. refinery closures in 2020, U.S. operable atmospheric crude oil distillation capacity, the primary measure of refinery capacity in the United States, dropped 4.5% to a total of 18.1 million barrels per calendar day (b/cd) at the start of 2021. The end-of-year 2020 total is 0.8 million b/cd less than the 19.0 million b/cd of refining capacity at the start of 2020. According to the data in our annual Refinery Capacity Report, the beginning of 2021 marks the lowest annual capacity figure to start the year since 2015. Based on information reported to us in our recent update, U.S. refining capacity will not expand significantly during 2021.

At the beginning of 2021, 129 refineries were either operating or idle in the United States (excluding U.S. territories), down from 135 operable refineries listed at the beginning of 2020. The additional refinery closures in the 2021 Refinery Capacity Report largely reflect the impact of responses to COVID-19 on the U.S. refining sector.


In 2019, the 335,000 b/cd Philadelphia Energy Solutions (PES) refinery in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, experienced a major refinery incident. It has not resumed operation since the incident. We listed the facility as idle in the 2020 Refinery Capacity Report because the decision to permanently close the facility was not final. As of January 1, 2021, we considered the refinery to be permanently closed, and it is not included in our 2021 report.

In 2020, the pandemic contributed to a substantial decrease in demand for motor fuels and refined petroleum products, which put downward pressure on refinery margins and made market conditions more challenging for refinery operators.
In addition to challenging market conditions, increasing market interest in renewable diesel production and pre-existing plans to scale down or reconfigure petroleum refineries all contributed to the closing of a handful of refineries in 2020.

We removed the following refineries from total U.S. operable capacity after they closed:

• The Philadelphia Energy Solutions refinery in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: 335,000 b/cd
• The Shell refinery in Convent, Louisiana: 211,146 b/cd
• The Tesoro (Marathon) refinery in Martinez, California: 161,000 b/cd
• The HollyFrontier refinery in Cheyenne, Wyoming: 48,000 b/cd
• The Western Refining refinery in Gallup, New Mexico: 27,000 b/cd
• The Dakota Prairie refinery in Dickinson, North Dakota: 19,000 b/cd

End quote

These things happen, under The Trump Administration, and Republicans Public Constituency did not keep up with this information, and neglected to address these reduction under the Trump Administration. In their urgency to try to Blame Biden for Acts that Happen under the Trump Administration, which has directly affected the conditions with Fuel Production and Refinery Performance. The COVID Pandemic on Global Energy Matters, and compound that with the current acts by Russia, which has further impacted the Energy Sector.

 

[RealityNow]

Hmmmmm. Mean old, bad old Orange man didn't have this problem.
Poor old Joe.

READ AND LEARN.... It might help you from making inaccurate comments.

 

[Helix]

There should be a public sector energy producer to compete with the private sector.

 

[Grandpappy]

READ AND LEARN.... It might help you from making inaccurate comments.

Covid was a bitch. For sure. What's Joe's excuse?

 

[RealityNow]

Covid was a bitch. For sure. What's Joe's excuse?

You purposefully "ignored the information in the link, regarding what took place with Oil Industry during Trump's Admin. Re-read it and perspectively, think deeply before you post any addition comments on the matter. To make it easier to understand, I copied and linked the information.

ADDITIONALLY:
quote

U.S. wind and solar energy hit a key benchmark last month: Report​

The United States electricity sector reached an important milestone in April, when wind and solar energy accounted for 20% of electricity generation for the first time in history, according to the London-based global energy think tank Ember.

The 20% figure is noteworthy because the International Energy Agency calculates that to avert catastrophic climate change, wind and solar energy need to reach one-fifth of global energy production by 2025.

U.S. wind and solar energy production typically reaches its highest annual output in April. Spring is the windiest time of year on average, and the sun shines strongest in the spring and summer. Last April, wind and solar accounted for 17% of U.S. electricity, which was the all-time high until last month.

U.S. wind and solar energy have grown dramatically in recent years, primarily due to dropping costs. For 2021 as a whole, wind and solar created 14% of U.S. electricity, up from just 6% in 2015.
-------
“Wind and solar are breaking records around the world,” Ember COO Phil MacDonald said in a statement. “The process that will reshape the existing energy system has begun. Wind and solar provide a solution to the ‘trilemma’ of achieving a sustainable, affordable and secure energy supply. This decade they need to be deployed at lightning speed

--------------------​

second quote

​

​

Interactive map of wind farms in the United States​

End quote's

 

[diz]

Would you support a rationing of gas under the umbrella of National Security. I am thinking more along lines of everyone gets say 10-14 gallons a week at market price. If you need more then it’s at a higher price say extra dollar or so a gallon with extra taxes specifically for road infrastructure. All in the name of protecting a National Security concern. EV, hybrid, motorcycle owners would have either a fee or reduced allotment depending on applicability

Why? The only “crisis" right now is gas is expensive, the Democrats have been pushing anti-oil policies, and midterms are coming.

 

[TomFitz]

Sounds like someone doesn't know what price fixing is. You can't price fix a commoditzed product that is globally produced unless you control an overwhelming percentage of total production.




The leadership of every company on the planet has a fiduciary responsibility to look out for their shareholder's capital. Where were you when these companies were bleeding money year after year with low prices? Where was the price fixing then? Where was the support for federal subsidization? You don't get to have it both ways.



When did the taxpayer give trillions of dollars to oil companies? Show me the line item on a public filing.

That is true.

The oil industry got a look at its future in 2020.

When economies shut down, and transportation ground to a halt, oil prices collapsed. At one point in January of 2021, the tanks were so full that oil was trading a negative numbers on the spot market. They couldnt’ give it away!

Now, with substantial recovery, oil producers all over the world are holding the line on production.

They know that this may well be their last hurrah.

Tis is the first oil war where a substantial number of the customers have an alternative.

And that changes everything.

The producers know that the price will go back down. They’re making hay while the sun still shines.

Unfortunately, for them, with renewables leading the pack in new electricity generation and investment capital, this sun won’t shine too much longer.

 

[bave]

When economies shut down, and transportation ground to a halt, oil prices collapsed. At one point in January of 2021, the tanks were so full that oil was trading a negative numbers on the spot market. They couldnt’ give it away!

Ah, the ignorance of how the CBOE and NYMEX work. Do you actually believe anyone got paid to take delivery of WTI?

Now, with substantial recovery, oil producers all over the world are holding the line on production.

They know that this may well be their last hurrah.

Ah yes, because the dozens of nations, hundreds of companies, they are all in collusion? I will bet you $100 that fossil fuels will still be chugging along just fine in 30 years.

The producers know that the price will go back down. They’re making hay while the sun still shines.

Unfortunately, for them, with renewables leading the pack in new electricity generation and investment capital, this sun won’t shine too much longer.

When is the price going down? There has been an enormous underinvestment in upstream production. That's a major reason for the shortage right now.

All the renewables in the world aren't displacing oil in the next 30 years, not unless you get some stunning breakthroughs on storage/generation/cost.

 

[TomFitz]

Why? The only “crisis" right now is gas is expensive, the Democrats have been pushing anti-oil policies, and midterms are coming.

Outside the tiny right wing universe, a lot of people understand the drilling more holes does not build a secure future or a stable world.

 

[TomFitz]

Ah, the ignorance of how the CBOE and NYMEX work. Do you actually believe anyone got paid to take delivery of WTI?



Ah yes, because the dozens of nations, hundreds of companies, they are all in collusion? I will bet you $100 that fossil fuels will still be chugging along just fine in 30 years.



When is the price going down? There has been an enormous underinvestment in upstream production. That's a major reason for the shortage right now.

All the renewables in the world aren't displacing oil in the next 30 years, not unless you get some stunning breakthroughs on storage/generation/cost.

No, I never believed that people paid to get rid of their oil, in case you were wondering. The point was that oil prices collapsed.

The world is currently factoring out Russian oil.

Even if Russian gas flows plentiful and cheap after Putin’s war is over, the experience of that war, on top of years of Russian brinksmanship, will all but guarantee that the EU will get off the fossil fuel tit as soon as they can.

Even in the US, electric cars are hot, at the moment, And there is little doubt that most cars will be electric in the medium future.

Which spells the end of the biggest single market for oil.

And that oil won’t go to making electricity. It’s too dirty, too expensive, and still requires a lot of infrastructure.

 

[bave]

The world is currently factoring out Russian oil.

Even if Russian gas flows plentiful and cheap after Putin’s war is over, the experience of that war, on top of years of Russian brinksmanship, will all but guarantee that the EU will get off the fossil fuel tit as soon as they can.

The EU has already been doing everything they can. The problem is they have a high density and most of the continent sucks for wind and solar (spain/north sea exceptions) but thats nowhere near enough to cover their needs. They abandoned nuclear and coal (ex France) but that has driven them to Russian gas. They won't be able to get enough gas from the US and Qatar to fill that gap and it will take a decade of building terminals even if they can ship it in. Would also be very expensive. So even if they switch to electricity, where are they generating it?

Even in the US, electric cars are hot, at the moment, And there is little doubt that most cars will be electric in the medium future.

Sure, but where's the lithium and cobalt going to come from to displace a billion automobiles worldwide? Where's the generation capacity? Where's the storage capacity? A million problems that are very expensive, resource intensive, time intensive. That's why I said you need a breakthrough with something like graphene batteries and/or fusion power. Until you get some major tech jumps, this is tough to see happening.

And that oil won’t go to making electricity. It’s too dirty, too expensive, and still requires a lot of infrastructure.

Very little electrical generation is done through oil. It is almost entirely coal/nat gas/nuclear/renewable.

The thing you are missing is the developing world. Africa is going to have more people than Asia in 30-40 years according to most estimates. Where's their electric cars? What about India and China? The demand for resources is going to be enormous, just like we have seen with protein.

 

[RealityNow]

Ah, the ignorance of how the CBOE and NYMEX work. Do you actually believe anyone got paid to take delivery of WTI?



Ah yes, because the dozens of nations, hundreds of companies, they are all in collusion? I will bet you $100 that fossil fuels will still be chugging along just fine in 30 years.



When is the price going down? There has been an enormous underinvestment in upstream production. That's a major reason for the shortage right now.

All the renewables in the world aren't displacing oil in the next 30 years, not unless you get some stunning breakthroughs on storage/generation/cost.

Oil is not going to be replaced in any short term... We should remember, it took decades for "Coal Fire Furnance" in homes to give way to Natural Gas...

The World Does Not Turn on a Dime..,.. People seem to not pay attention to the "Big Picture" of how developments progress...

• Development won't cease to advance technology and as with all technology, things phase themselves into a diminished capacity.

It took years after the "computer" before people stopped relying on "Electric Typewriters", and even when Electric Typewriters came, it was years before people stopped using manual typewriters.

Some thing transistion faster than other things.

There is still people who don't have a computer, there are still people who have "TV's with large picture tubles". I'm sure if someone looked hard enough they could find people somewhere, using a mule and plow, to turn over soil and make a garden.

 

[diz]

Outside the tiny right wing universe, a lot of people understand the drilling more holes does not build a secure future or a stable world.

Ok, then what exactly is the problem?

 

[TomFitz]

The EU has already been doing everything they can. The problem is they have a high density and most of the continent sucks for wind and solar (spain/north sea exceptions) but thats nowhere near enough to cover their needs. They abandoned nuclear and coal (ex France) but that has driven them to Russian gas. They won't be able to get enough gas from the US and Qatar to fill that gap and it will take a decade of building terminals even if they can ship it in. Would also be very expensive. So even if they switch to electricity, where are they generating it?



Sure, but where's the lithium and cobalt going to come from to displace a billion automobiles worldwide? Where's the generation capacity? Where's the storage capacity? A million problems that are very expensive, resource intensive, time intensive. That's why I said you need a breakthrough with something like graphene batteries and/or fusion power. Until you get some major tech jumps, this is tough to see happening.



Very little electrical generation is done through oil. It is almost entirely coal/nat gas/nuclear/renewable.

The thing you are missing is the developing world. Africa is going to have more people than Asia in 30-40 years according to most estimates. Where's their electric cars? What about India and China? The demand for resources is going to be enormous, just like we have seen with protein.

short term thinking.

The EU has done everything it can in the near future.

There is no question at all the the EU is accellerating its investments and deployment of renewable energy resources.

Ten years from now, they won’t have much use for Russian oil and gas, and little patience with Russian brinksmanship.

Now that the idea of battery storage of peak power has been profitably demonstrated investment capital is flooding into that field all over the world.

Ten years from now. Battery farms will stabalize the loads of most major utilities, bringing great improvements in efficiency, and lowering cost.

Battery technology is also advancing very quickly. An alternative to lithium ion is almost certainly in the offing. And LI batteries are 100% recyclable.

The developing world will skip the large central power station model that the world relied on for 120 years, just as they never built telephone networks. They won‘t build large electrical grids, because they won’t need them.

The Russians shot themselves in the foot so many ways by starting this war. They’ll be paying for it for years.

There‘s a global movement away from depending on the fossil fuel resources of an unstable and erratic business partner like Moscow. That won’t change.

The Chinese are just sitting back. China gains from Russia’s loss, and it is perfectly content to sit back and watch NATO and the US carry the load.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

You missed the entire core point of the OP.

You are talking about "Profits" and I'm talking about "NATIONAL SECURITY".

National Security is more important than private companies gouging for excessive profits.

Not in the U$A. It's all about profits, at all expenses, and its why our country is becoming a shithole.

Just look at the disgrace of our healthcare system that shows profit over lives.

But yeah, it shouldn't be that way but we have brainwashed morons defending disgusting greed and corrupt politicians who solely work for the rich

 

[bave]

There is no question at all the the EU is accellerating its investments and deployment of renewable energy resources.

Their geography will hold them back.

Ten years from now, they won’t have much use for Russian oil and gas, and little patience with Russian brinksmanship.

Disagree.

Now that the idea of battery storage of peak power has been profitably demonstrated investment capital is flooding into that field all over the world.

Mostly because of subsidization, not because of pure economics.

Ten years from now. Battery farms will stabalize the loads of most major utilities, bringing great improvements in efficiency, and lowering cost.

Lol. Do the math. Where are the batteries coming from?

Battery technology is also advancing very quickly. An alternative to lithium ion is almost certainly in the offing. And LI batteries are 100% recyclable.

Show me the alternative that is scalable and even remotely ready.

The developing world will skip the large central power station model that the world relied on for 120 years, just as they never built telephone networks. They won‘t build large electrical grids, because they won’t need them.

The Russians shot themselves in the foot so many ways by starting this war. They’ll be paying for it for years.

There‘s a global movement away from depending on the fossil fuel resources of an unstable and erratic business partner like Moscow. That won’t change.

The Chinese are just sitting back. China gains from Russia’s loss, and it is perfectly content to sit back and watch NATO and the US carry the load.

Sheesh, a lot wrong in that.

 

[TomFitz]

Their geography will hold them back.



Disagree.



Mostly because of subsidization, not because of pure economics.



Lol. Do the math. Where are the batteries coming from?



Show me the alternative that is scalable and even remotely ready.



Sheesh, a lot wrong in that.

The battery farms that have been built so far were not subsidized.

The first on, in Australia paid for itself in three years. No where else in the entire world of electric power does an investment pay for itself in three years.

Which is why projects like it are being planned and developed on every continent now.

This is the future business model for the electric power industry.

So much for your claim about subsides and pure economics.

Electric cars, and storage will change the world, and vastly reduce the world’s need for burning fossil fuel for transportation. Which will cut the market for oil world wide by more than half over the course of the next decade.

The economic and environmental imperatives are already there.

”Scalable and remotely ready”?

Here’s one that’s been up and running for three years, and has almost certainly paid its investors back.

Elon Musk's Battery Farm Is an Undeniable Success

It's the bet that saved Australia tens of millions of dollars.

www.popularmechanics.com

And here



And here

The World's Biggest Battery Farm Is Alive in California

Just in time to handle massive heatwaves.

www.popularmechanics.com

I can keep on going.

 

[RealityNow]

Their geography will hold them back.



Disagree.



Mostly because of subsidization, not because of pure economics.



Lol. Do the math. Where are the batteries coming from?



Show me the alternative that is scalable and even remotely ready.



Sheesh, a lot wrong in that.

You do know that "Subsidizing has been core to growth in America since the establishment of the Declaration of Independence.
Everything is subsidized either directly or indirectly.. When Greed Abuses that system, not only does "inequity" get promoted, but also constructive decline become part of the process, eventually, one has a deteriorated mess, that is closed down or shut down... That creates blight.
then it requires subsidies to clean up the blight.
Lack of Knowledge and Greed is always a horrible combination... and we've allowed it to become a Standard Model of Process in America.

 

[American]

Oil Production and Oil Pricing is a National Security Concern

I say Congress should crack down on Oil Companies...Everyone with a principled and logical mind, know the Oil Companies are price fixing, by many means, including not drilling on the land leases they have, to keep the supply low so they can fix the pricing.

Oil Companies push some 'BULLSHIT" claiming they have to protect "Investor Profits". Fact is, we better rethink that. Because, Investors should know Investing was never designed for Making a Kings Ranson, based on a stock ticker trying to break a record every day.

• Investing is about "the stability of a company, or Industry, and the long term performance that yeilds gains over time". It never should have become a "get rich quick game"!

I think "Oil" is a National Security Commodity, and it is based on "Natural Resources".

• These Companies should fall under a NATIONAL Legislated Policy, that regulates "Production" and "Pricing". NOT... based on "greedy investors".
• "We need better structured regulations' where Oil companies "cannot", strangle the Nation and its Citizens, for the sake of "windfall profit gouging'.

American tax payers have given Oil Companies $Trillion of Dollars of many decades. That is money from the people of this nation, which there should have been Legislated Price Controls, decades ago!!!
The same principle applies to "Prescription Medications' where $Trillions of U.S. Taxpayer money has gone into the Research and Development of Drugs, there should have been Legislated Price Controls, decades ago.

Hopefully, this debacle... pushes and force Congress to enact Legislation that respect nation and persons, and the national security of this nation. And stop pandering to the "get rich schemes of core industries that are at the heart of National Security".

Trillions of tax dollars huh? More importantly is what is the govt doing with the money? It ain't all road building.

How Much Gas Tax Money States Divert Away From Roads - Reason Foundation

Examining the percentage of state gas tax revenue that is allocated for expenses unrelated to roads, including money shifted to law enforcement, education, tourism, environmental programs and more.

reason.org

Notice that northeastern (liberal) states divert more than anyone else.

 

[Metric Mouse]

The EU has already been doing everything they can. The problem is they have a high density and most of the continent sucks for wind and solar (spain/north sea exceptions) but thats nowhere near enough to cover their needs. They abandoned nuclear and coal (ex France) but that has driven them to Russian gas. They won't be able to get enough gas from the US and Qatar to fill that gap and it will take a decade of building terminals even if they can ship it in. Would also be very expensive. So even if they switch to electricity, where are they generating it?



Sure, but where's the lithium and cobalt going to come from to displace a billion automobiles worldwide? Where's the generation capacity? Where's the storage capacity? A million problems that are very expensive, resource intensive, time intensive. That's why I said you need a breakthrough with something like graphene batteries and/or fusion power. Until you get some major tech jumps, this is tough to see happening.



Very little electrical generation is done through oil. It is almost entirely coal/nat gas/nuclear/renewable.

The thing you are missing is the developing world. Africa is going to have more people than Asia in 30-40 years according to most estimates. Where's their electric cars? What about India and China? The demand for resources is going to be enormous, just like we have seen with protein.

I don't agree that your points are going to limit alternative energy adoption substantially, but you did point out many of the problems that will need to be overcome.

 

[RealityNow]

Trillions of tax dollars huh? More importantly is what is the govt doing with the money? It ain't all road building.

How Much Gas Tax Money States Divert Away From Roads - Reason Foundation

Examining the percentage of state gas tax revenue that is allocated for expenses unrelated to roads, including money shifted to law enforcement, education, tourism, environmental programs and more.

reason.org

Notice that northeastern (liberal) states divert more than anyone else.

I don't think any matter of Liberal or Conservative is any concern based on the premise of the discussion... the concern is about better Regulatory Controls Regarding Oil and Refinery Productions.

If you guys get off this Liberal v Conservative and focus on the point of matter to address the core principle... we might actually get something accomplished.

 

[diz]

I don't think any matter of Liberal or Conservative is any concern based on the premise of the discussion... the concern is about better Regulatory Controls Regarding Oil and Refinery Productions.

If you guys get off this Liberal v Conservative and focus on the point of matter to address the core principle... we might actually get something accomplished.

If the government just stays out of energy markets investment will go where it makes the most sense. As things stand investment in oil and gas is heavily discouraged by government in many areas and renewables are encouraged. Hence in recent years capital has flowed more to renewables than it would have under market forces. This, among other things, leads to gasoline prices being higher than they otherwise would be. I don’t consider this the crisis some seem to think it is, but its an inevitable effect of anti-oil and gas policies and reduced investment therein.