• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Oh my god, this is disgusting! ANOTHER U.S. SOLDIER SCANDAL IN THE MAKING!

europa

New member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
American soldiers in Iraq are trading pictures of horribly maimed and dead Iraqis against free porn. :shocked2:

Check it out for yourselves: http://www.nowthats****edup.com/bbs/forum23.html

You have been warned, this is gruesome. And the idea alone, of trading human misery against porn.... where is this going to??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1579864,00.html


The new pornography of war

Andrew Brown
Wednesday September 28, 2005
The Guardian

"Nowthats****edup.com" is the most horror-filled website I have ever seen; and if you are reading this at breakfast, or anywhere near a child, you should stop right now. It is a site for trophy pictures, originally a place where men could trade pornographic pictures of women they knew. But in wartime the definition of trophy changes, so when you look at the forum now you are likely to see something such as this:

A burnt and crumpled Arab face rests in a blue kitchen bowl. It doesn't look as if the back of the head is there, but it's impossible to be sure because everything behind the eyes is hidden in a pool of blood and everything below the jaw is missing. Underneath the picture are two discreet text ads for "Free amateur teen pictures" and "Mother and Daughter omfg! They are whores lol!"

There are several hundred such pictures on the site, all apparently submitted by American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. The deal offered by the site's owner, Chris Wilson, is that serving soldiers get free access if they can prove they are abroad. He did this from a patriotic impulse: it was difficult for soldiers to make credit card payments from Afghanistan. So he decided to accept evidence of life abroad instead. This doesn't have to be a picture of a mutilated corpse, but those will do nicely. The site now has more than 160,000 members.

The scandal at Abu Ghraib showed that modern armies are full of people with digital cameras who will document everything they see, no matter how shaming it might be in the outside world. Some of these pictures are far worse than anything that came out of the prison but they show the same tangle of lust for flesh, power and killing.

There's some dispute about whether all of the pictures are real but it seems beyond doubt that most of the posters claiming to be soldiers actually are, not least because the American Army tries to stop its soldiers accessing the site and posting captions like this: "Iraqi driver tried to run a checkpoint ... this is an Iraqi driver and passenger that tried to run a checkpoint during the first part of OIF [Operation Iraqi Freedom]. The bad thing about shooting them is that we have to clean it up. The car was shot at with 5.56mm and 7.62 mm rounds. The 7.62 did his head" - but the viewer must take on trust that the head existed.

The soldier, signing himself "vagetarian", who posted the picture comments: "These are things that we have to do. Some of us dont like it but it must be done to protect ourselfs and our way of life. These are here to show we dont take anything lightly."

News of the site has been circulating outside the army for about a month, since Helena Cobban, a Quaker blogger and journalist, found a reference to it in an Italian report. "It underlines the deeply exploitative nature of most pornography," she says.

Wilson, the owner of the site, is proud of displaying the photographs. He popped up himself in the discussions on Cobban's blog to say: "I think everyone should see them. This is a side of the war that is shown from the soldiers THEMSELVES. Where else can you go see that?"

He is proud of free expression as a mark of civilisation (though, for legal reasons, the site is hosted in the Netherlands, and not Florida where he lives). At the head of each column of pictures is an uplifting paragraph denouncing censorship, which starts: "America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship."

"It is", says Cobban, "like finding Mistah Kurtz, sitting in the middle of the black jungle, surrounded by heads on stakes"

====================


AND AMERICANS WONDER WHY THE WORLD HATES THEM! :roll:


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...headlines-world

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1579864,00.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...s.xml&items=150

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/I...1238168-ap.html
 

FinnMacCool

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
153
Location
South Shore of Long Island.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
I don't understand. They're posting pictures of people they killed. thats a lil weird. I doubt it will turn into a big scandal though. I don't think its illegal just. . .weird. . .
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I don't see a site?:confused:

But yes, I could see why everyone hates America, I mean........one idiot did start a site, lol!
 

Elektra

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2005
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
Location
Ca
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
I didn't use the link sicne I am a little squeamish.However, if this is true, I find it deeply unethical.
 

mistermain

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I hope you guys were just as disgusted when you saw our contractor's hanging from that bridge in Fallujah. I hope you were as outraged when you watched that video of those animals sawing off Nick Berg's head. I find it hard to be appauled by pics of corpses of our enemies after watching the videos of our citizens being burned, and decapitated by those very people.
 

tecoyah

Back
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
9,777
Reaction score
3,417
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
mistermain said:
I hope you guys were just as disgusted when you saw our contractor's hanging from that bridge in Fallujah. I hope you were as outraged when you watched that video of those animals sawing off Nick Berg's head. I find it hard to be appauled by pics of corpses of our enemies after watching the videos of our citizens being burned, and decapitated by those very people.

I have never understood the Logic involved in lowering standards of acceptable practice, simply because someone else does so. It does not say much for Human Character that we do so. Honestly....I find both acts unacceptable, but I also understand this is War, and cannot say what "I" would do under these pressures so I am not in a position to judge. I am in a position to be disgusted though.
 

mistermain

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
tecoyah said:
I have never understood the Logic involved in lowering standards of acceptable practice, simply because someone else does so. It does not say much for Human Character that we do so. Honestly....I find both acts unacceptable, but I also understand this is War, and cannot say what "I" would do under these pressures so I am not in a position to judge. I am in a position to be disgusted though.
It's not about lowering standards. Taking pictures of corpses is nothing that disgusting. I would not do it, but why would anybody want to make a big deal about it. As you said, you are not at war, so you cannot understand what these boys are going through over there. I'm sick of liberals tearing down our soldiers for things that are so petty when they're over there getting blown up by psychopaths.
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
292
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's not about lowering standards. Taking pictures of corpses is nothing that disgusting. I would not do it, but why would anybody want to make a big deal about it. As you said, you are not at war, so you cannot understand what these boys are going through over there. I'm sick of liberals tearing down our soldiers for things that are so petty when they're over there getting blown up by psychopaths.
Then why make such a hooha when they do it? Wrong is wrong, no matter what the condition. Killing a rebel trying to kill you is fine. Taking photos of his dead body and displaying it for the world to see like a catch of the month is sick and demeans both the "trophy winner" and the "trophy". (Although I'm sure that the "trophy" can't care TOO much because he/she/it is dead) Dont try and justify behavior you would never condone just because their under stress.
 

mistermain

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Then why make such a hooha when they do it? Wrong is wrong, no matter what the condition. Killing a rebel trying to kill you is fine. Taking photos of his dead body and displaying it for the world to see like a catch of the month is sick and demeans both the "trophy winner" and the "trophy". (Although I'm sure that the "trophy" can't care TOO much because he/she/it is dead) Dont try and justify behavior you would never condone just because their under stress.
I don't codone it. I do not believe we should publicize this kind of thing, because it only increases the hostility towards our soldiers overseas. What happened here is not what I would do. What happened at Abu Graib was retarded. The way that liberals went after these guys was wrong though. All it does is put our troops at greater risk.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
mistermain said:
It's not about lowering standards. Taking pictures of corpses is nothing that disgusting. I would not do it, but why would anybody want to make a big deal about it. As you said, you are not at war, so you cannot understand what these boys are going through over there. I'm sick of liberals tearing down our soldiers for things that are so petty when they're over there getting blown up by psychopaths.
Oh brother. :roll: There there now. I know it makes you feel better to blame the liberals for things like this, and, hey, if it works, keep doing it. It just shows your ignorance.

From the Washington Post:

Those who submit photos of war casualties could be breaking military rules against "unbecoming" conduct and also could be in violation of government regulations regarding use of the Internet. Soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan have access to the Internet, largely at Internet cafes, and many have digital cameras.

Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman, said investigators have been examining the photos for clues to their origin, adding that commanders in the field are emphasizing that taking and posting such photos is unacceptable.

"If accurate, these are gruesome depictions of deceased people in Iraq, and that violates the standards of our values, training and procedures that we ask military personnel to observe and obey," Boyce said. "It is very difficult to establish they are in fact being submitted by soldiers, where they were taken, who they were taken by, and the circumstances surrounding them."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/28/AR2005092802254.html

I read in a different news source that there were captions underneath with one of them saying something like "Burned to a crisp" and it showed a dead Iraqi who had been burned. Wow, that's what I call conduct becoming of a solider. *sarcasm*

Ah, I just found the other article--from the New York Times:

An article published last week in the Online Journalism Review of the Annenberg School for Communications at the University of Southern California identified the site's operator as Chris Wilson, and said he lived in Florida but maintained the site on computer hosts overseas.

The article quoted him as saying: "To me, this is from the soldier's slant. This is directly from them. They can take the digital cameras and take a picture and send it to me, and that's the most raw you can get it. I like to see it from their point of view, and I think it's newsworthy."

On the site, under the headline "Cooked Iraqi," a posted photograph shows uniformed men posing in front of what appear to be charred remains. The photo promoted several anonymous postings including one that said, "Burn baby, burn!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/international/middleeast/28site.html

Wow. I love it when our soldiers exude honor like this.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
mistermain said:
I don't codone it. I do not believe we should publicize this kind of thing, because it only increases the hostility towards our soldiers overseas. What happened here is not what I would do. What happened at Abu Graib was retarded. The way that liberals went after these guys was wrong though. All it does is put our troops at greater risk.
How pathetic.
 

mistermain

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
You're taking stories from the post and NY times, two far left socialist papers. What's pathetic now. Try quoting some sources with no bias.
 

Navy Pride

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
39,883
Reaction score
3,070
Location
Pacific NW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It isjust more proof of how the left hates the military in this country even though they constantly tell us how they support it.............They blame the actions of a few bad apples on 130,000 men and women doing and outstanding job.....

It is so sad......
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
mistermain said:
It's not about lowering standards. Taking pictures of corpses is nothing that disgusting. I would not do it, but why would anybody want to make a big deal about it. As you said, you are not at war, so you cannot understand what these boys are going through over there. I'm sick of liberals tearing down our soldiers for things that are so petty when they're over there getting blown up by psychopaths.
Well, being someone who HAS gone to war, 12 months from Feb 03 to Feb 04 and 4 months from Dec 04 to March 05.....with the 82nd ABn infantry.

I DO know what is going on with the soldiers, and this is still unacceptable and ILLEGAL! We are told many times not to take pictures of dead bodies, but sometimes sick ****s, including some of the leadership (junior NCOs) decide not to follow the rules. And we end up with this nasty horse-**** which degrades the character of our soldiers overseas.
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
mistermain said:
You're taking stories from the post and NY times, two far left socialist papers. What's pathetic now. Try quoting some sources with no bias.
Thats because there are no sources without Bias.
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Navy Pride said:
It isjust more proof of how the left hates the military in this country even though they constantly tell us how they support it.............They blame the actions of a few bad apples on 130,000 men and women doing and outstanding job.....

It is so sad......
Um, I consider myself to be on the left side of things, and I was IN the military, although I just got out after my 4 years are up I don't hate the military at all. So another ignorant assumption on your part. Like you just said, your blaming the actions of a few extremely left people on the many of people on the left who do support the military. So, because I don't agree with the gruesome display of blown up chunks of what WAS an Iraqi (insurgent or not) or just a dead corpse lying in a pool of blood. Does that mean that I hate our military?
Stop making ignorant assumptions and generalizations on the extreme opinions of just a few.
 

Navy Pride

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
39,883
Reaction score
3,070
Location
Pacific NW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Caine said:
Um, I consider myself to be on the left side of things, and I was IN the military, although I just got out after my 4 years are up I don't hate the military at all. So another ignorant assumption on your part. Like you just said, your blaming the actions of a few extremely left people on the many of people on the left who do support the military. So, because I don't agree with the gruesome display of blown up chunks of what WAS an Iraqi (insurgent or not) or just a dead corpse lying in a pool of blood. Does that mean that I hate our military?
Stop making ignorant assumptions and generalizations on the extreme opinions of just a few.
Anyone can say anything here sitting behind their computer.....Judging by the content of your posts I doubt very seriously that your old enough to have ever served in the military.....
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,344
Reaction score
7,210
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Navy Pride said:
Anyone can say anything here sitting behind their computer.....Judging by the content of your posts I doubt very seriously that your old enough to have ever served in the military.....
Now your getting personal and ******* me off.
If you look at my profile im 22.
Do you need me to scan my ****ing DD214 to show you?
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
292
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Mistermain
I don't codone it. I do not believe we should publicize this kind of thing, because it only increases the hostility towards our soldiers overseas. What happened here is not what I would do. What happened at Abu Graib was retarded. The way that liberals went after these guys was wrong though. All it does is put our troops at greater risk.
By the very act of putting these pictures on the internet the soldiers have made it public, the shadowy "liberals" you talk about did not make this act public, they have brought it to a more widespread audience so that it can be stemmed (and they can sell papers) and not ignored. The arab newpapers and networks would find out anyway, and most likely already had. It is possible that if the american public was not informed of the situation the brass would not do as much to stamp it out. Besides, we can't do anything to put our troops in more danger other than having them indesciminatly kill civilians or give take away all their equipment. Those who are going to fight are going to fight, you cant change the fact. Your entire view on this issue is clouded by your whole "americans can do no wrong" complex (at least the ones on the right it seems). Just because you have a hard-on for the troops doesn't mean they can't put a foot wrong.


You're taking stories from the post and NY times, two far left socialist papers. What's pathetic now. Try quoting some sources with no bias.
Just to drill the point into your head, because i know its been said, there are no, I repeat, no sources without bias. Perhaps you should read some of these "far left socialist" papers to balance out your news diet. Or perhaps you should just read the facts presented in the article instead of getting mad at the writers. Its an opinion, opinions are a dime a million so dont get mad when one shows up. :spin:: it's what sells so don't bitch about it (or at least bitch about all the other biased sources as well).

Navy Pride
It isjust more proof of how the left hates the military in this country even though they constantly tell us how they support it.............They blame the actions of a few bad apples on 130,000 men and women doing and outstanding job.....

It is so sad......
You know whats really sad? your baseless claims that "the left" hates the military. Tell me NP, how did you come to this conclusion, please show me this proof of widespred hatred of our countymen and women. Which parent loves their child more; the one who ignores all the childs wrong doing regardless of how bad it is, or the one who scolds the child when it puts a foot wrong? Please stop your posts from :spin:ing, I would like to get off.


-OTG
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Caine said:
Um, I consider myself to be on the left side of things, and I was IN the military, although I just got out after my 4 years are up I don't hate the military at all. So another ignorant assumption on your part. Like you just said, your blaming the actions of a few extremely left people on the many of people on the left who do support the military. So, because I don't agree with the gruesome display of blown up chunks of what WAS an Iraqi (insurgent or not) or just a dead corpse lying in a pool of blood. Does that mean that I hate our military?
Stop making ignorant assumptions and generalizations on the extreme opinions of just a few.
Caine, I am so glad to see you say this. I am good friends with a man who just served for one year in Iraq. He totally does not support this war, but he served and put his heart into serving there. He's a soldier, who doesn't like Bush and doesn't support this ridiculous war--does that mean he doesn't support our troops? Nope.

Thank you for your service to our country.
 

Canuck

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
849
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
FinnMacCool said:
I don't understand. They're posting pictures of people they killed. thats a lil weird. I doubt it will turn into a big scandal though. I don't think its illegal just. . .weird. . .
it agianst the genieva convention of which the us is a signatory
i saw the pics
they are nolonger at the site in question but they were there
one can say that in an all out war for the life of your homeland things like this could hapen
AMericans are cheap they will do this for porn or just for the fun of it
not all americans only america's forgotten youth that once in uniform feel like soldiers but are a mere rag tag bunch of gangsters
when they return home they will bring this back with them the stench of death on thier hands and the sickness of muder in their thoughts
what is the payment demanded of society for these killers that will be let loose among you
no wonder there are guns in the hands of children and bombs in americas school yards
how did people get this hard is what the rest of the world wonders
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom