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Observation about Obamacare

Tucker Case

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After looking at this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/175028-sense-does-make.html I decided to check to see what a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois would pay for the same Health Insurance coverage I had when I was a self-employed 25 year old smoker back in 2002 and the difference is quite interesting.

I had a $2,500 deductible, $5,000 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance back then ($25 copay) and I paid about $300 a month for it.

Comparatively, a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois can now get a plan with a $1,500 deductible, $3,500 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance ($10 copay) for about $240 per month.

Not too shabby. That's without adjusting for inflation, too.

If we adjust for inflation, my coverage then was the equivalent of a plan with a $3,250 deductible, $6,500 out of pocket with a $30 copay today and it cost me $390 per month (this website: CPI Inflation Calculator was used for inflation calculations).

What's interesting is that there is a plan available today that would only cost $230 per month that has $3250 as the max out of pocket cost and deductible which has a 100% coinsurance.

So it looks like I would have saved a lot of money on health insurance if Obamacare existed in 2002. I found this interesting.
 
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Tucker Case

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What's really interesting is that my savings would not have been "paid for" by tax dollars. It was really all about access to an affordable plan.
 

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After looking at this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/175028-sense-does-make.html I decided to check to see what a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois would pay for the same Health Insurance coverage I had when I was a self-employed 25 year old smoker back in 2002 and the difference is quite interesting.

I had a $2,500 deductible, $5,000 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance back then ($25 copay) and I paid about $300 a month for it.

Comparatively, a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois can now get a plan with a $1,500 deductible, $3,500 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance ($10 copay) for about $240 per month.

Not too shabby. That's without adjusting for inflation, too.

If we adjust for inflation, my coverage then was the equivalent of a plan with a $3,250 deductible, $6,500 out of pocket with a $30 copay today and it cost me $390 per month (this website: CPI Inflation Calculator was used for inflation calculations).

What's interesting is that there is a plan available today that would only cost $230 per month that has $3250 as the max out of pocket cost and deductible which has a 100% coinsurance.

So it looks like I would have saved a lot of money on health insurance if Obamacare existed in 2002. I found this interesting.

How did you get this data? Heathcare.gov?
 

Dickieboy

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Tucker Case

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FWIW(essentially nothing), my current premium is ~$235. The one from your link that closest matches my current benefits is $411...but I am in a different state...

Interesting. Are you self-employed, or is this through an employer?
 

Dittohead not!

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After looking at this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/175028-sense-does-make.html I decided to check to see what a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois would pay for the same Health Insurance coverage I had when I was a self-employed 25 year old smoker back in 2002 and the difference is quite interesting.

I had a $2,500 deductible, $5,000 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance back then ($25 copay) and I paid about $300 a month for it.

Comparatively, a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois can now get a plan with a $1,500 deductible, $3,500 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance ($10 copay) for about $240 per month.

Not too shabby. That's without adjusting for inflation, too.

If we adjust for inflation, my coverage then was the equivalent of a plan with a $3,250 deductible, $6,500 out of pocket with a $30 copay today and it cost me $390 per month (this website: CPI Inflation Calculator was used for inflation calculations).

What's interesting is that there is a plan available today that would only cost $230 per month that has $3250 as the max out of pocket cost and deductible which has a 100% coinsurance.

So it looks like I would have saved a lot of money on health insurance if Obamacare existed in 2002. I found this interesting.

Not too shabby, indeed, when you adjust for inflation.
When you consider that inflation in the health care market has gone up far faster than inflation overall, then it's even less shabby.
 

Tucker Case

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Not too shabby, indeed, when you adjust for inflation.
When you consider that inflation in the health care market has gone up far faster than inflation overall, then it's even less shabby.

Yep. My insurance now is significantly better than both options, since it it is employer-based, but the comparison between what I'd have if I was still self-employed is really quite significant. The way I see it, the best option is still to have a job with a good healthcare plan. But this is definitely better than what was available for me when I was self-employed.
 

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Shame on you for not bashing Obamacare, comments like those are not acceptable, especially coming from a right-libertarian. What's this world coming to when people like you are making rational analysis of Obamacare. Thats simply not allowed. Tucker, right now, some tea party dude reading your comments just burst a blood vessel in his forehead.

Just kidding of course. Keep doing what you are doing, we all need to become informed about this stuff, beyond the made up rhetoric that we hear at the barber shop.
 

Tucker Case

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Shame on you for not bashing Obamacare, comments like those are not acceptable, especially coming from a right-libertarian. What's this world coming to when people like you are making rational analysis of Obamacare. Thats simply not allowed. Tucker, right now, some tea party dude reading your comments just burst a blood vessel in his forehead.

Just kidding of course. Keep doing what you are doing, we all need to become informed about this stuff, beyond the made up rhetoric that we hear at the barber shop.

To be fair, the "right libertarian" stuff is simply due to the lack of a "neo-anti-federalist" lean here (despite my repeated attempts to get one added :lol:). I wouldn't actually call my political views "right-libertarian" if I wasn't joking around.

I was surprised about the fact that the insurance was actually cheaper for similar coverage. This could actually be a boon to self-employed people.
 

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To be fair, the "right libertarian" stuff is simply due to the lack of a "neo-anti-federalist" lean here (despite my repeated attempts to get one added :lol:). I wouldn't actually call my political views "right-libertarian" if I wasn't joking around.

I was surprised about the fact that the insurance was actually cheaper for similar coverage. This could actually be a boon to self-employed people.

Yup.

My wife and I are both self employed. I am very happy with the insurance that I have, it's a high deductible policy from Blue Cross, and it also covers my kid. Inexpensive, yet it fits my needs perfectly as I rarely spend much on healthcare.

My wife though has been turned down repeated for insurance due to a pre-existing health issue. I believe that she will be able to get insurance from the federal exchange for about $350/mth (although she hasn't actually applied yet, so we aren't for sure about that). That will be a bargain, compared to the small group coverage that we have checked on, which is the only way that we can find an insurance company that will insure her. The last time I checked into a small group policy for our company, it was going to be over $850/mth per employee, and it simply ain't worth it to us. But I don't have any issue at all with $350/mth. We make too much money to get the subsidy, but we can certainly afford an unsubsidized policy at $350/mth.

A facebook friend of mine was bashing Obamacare the other day, and I asked her why she didn't want my wife to be able to purchase insurance. That facebook friend immediately deleted her posts. I think that a lot of people are just into the bashing, without actually thinking this thing through.

I'm not a huge supporter of Obamacare, I even met with my congressman before the ACA was voted on by congress, to suggest better options. There are better potential options, but Obamacare will likely be better than the system we have now. I just don't see how so many people can possibly believe that it is going to destroy our economy or our health care system - thats pure malarky.
 

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Yup.

My wife and I are both self employed. I am very happy with the insurance that I have, it's a high deductible policy from Blue Cross, and it also covers my kid. Inexpensive, yet it fits my needs perfectly as I rarely spend much on healthcare.

My wife though has been turned down repeated for insurance due to a pre-existing health issue. I believe that she will be able to get insurance from the federal exchange for about $350/mth (although she hasn't actually applied yet, so we aren't for sure about that). That will be a bargain, compared to the small group coverage that we have checked on, which is the only way that we can find an insurance company that will insure her. The last time I checked into a small group policy for our company, it was going to be over $850/mth per employee, and it simply ain't worth it to us. But I don't have any issue at all with $350/mth. We make too much money to get the subsidy, but we can certainly afford an unsubsidized policy at $350/mth.

A facebook friend of mine was bashing Obamacare the other day, and I asked her why she didn't want my wife to be able to purchase insurance. That facebook friend immediately deleted her posts. I think that a lot of people are just into the bashing, without actually thinking this thing through.

I'm not a huge supporter of Obamacare, I even met with my congressman before the ACA was voted on by congress, to suggest better options. There are better potential options, but Obamacare will likely be better than the system we have now. I just don't see how so many people can possibly believe that it is going to destroy our economy or our health care system - thats pure malarky.



Hey Imagep

Whats your thoughts on single payer health care?
 

The Man

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What's really interesting is that my savings would not have been "paid for" by tax dollars. It was really all about access to an affordable plan.

My biggest concern is will the plans STAY affordable year after year? Nothing was done to curb the root causes of escalating costs, in fact costs have been added, so my guess is they won't. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Dittohead not!

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My biggest concern is will the plans STAY affordable year after year? Nothing was done to curb the root causes of escalating costs, so my guess is they won't. I hope I'm wrong.

I hope you're wrong, too, but I'm afraid you're not. The root of the problem is cost of care, and that simply hasn't been addressed. The bottom line is that medical care costs on average over 8 grand per person now, and the costs keep going up.
 

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Hey Imagep

Whats your thoughts on single payer health care?

I'm actually all for it - assuming that the single payer is the patient and not a third party like an insurance company, or the guberment.

I realize that I just redefined single payer, but it seems to me that it is a better definition.

The reason that I'm not really thrilled about any third party payer system is that when someone else is paying the bill, the customer doesn't bother to price shop. And thats why we have our health care crises. The crises isn't really about health care, it's about the price of healthcare. Patients with insurance don't bother to price shop, so health care providers don't have a reason to compete based upon price. Insurance companies love this system, and they love high medical bills, because the higher the cost of medical care, the more they can justify their products, and the more they can charge and the more that people are willing to pay for insurance.

All that said, our current system is so screwed up, that socialized health care might actually be better than what we have - but no where as good as what we could have, if we designed a system where health care providers had to actually compete on price and quality. So ya, I would support socialized health care, or Obamacare, over our current system. Either one would be an improvement.

What I would really like is socialized high deductable insurance. This way, no family is finacially devistated by a rare huge medical bill, but doctors still have to compete on price for the vast majority of their services. this keeps the cost of care in check, without outright denying anyone life saving care, and without hospitals having the need to inflation the price of emergency care to cover the cost of those who don't pay.

I actually pitched this idea to my congressman. He didn't have the intelectual capability to understand it. I then helped to vote his stupid ass out of office.
 

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My biggest concern is will the plans STAY affordable year after year? Nothing was done to curb the root causes of escalating costs, in fact costs have been added, so my guess is they won't. I hope I'm wrong.

Nothing was done to curb the root causes of medical care, you are certainly correct about that. But something was done to curb the cost of insurance.

The cost of healthcare will continue to exceed the average inflation rate, but maybe for a few years, the cost of insurance will stop escalating at the same rate that it has for the past few decades, until inflation in the price of healthcare catches back up to it.
 

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I hope you're wrong, too, but I'm afraid you're not. The root of the problem is cost of care, and that simply hasn't been addressed. The bottom line is that medical care costs on average over 8 grand per person now, and the costs keep going up.

It's amazing that it is that much. Excluding paying for insurance, I haven't spent that much in healthcare cost during my entire adult life, let alone in one year.

I've also read that something like 70% of the lifetime cost of healthcare is in the last few years of life. Maybe those death panels were a good idea after all. Hmm.
 

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Nothing was done to curb the root causes of medical care, you are certainly correct about that. But something was done to curb the cost of insurance.

What exactly was done to curb the cost of health insurance? Letting adults stay on their parents' plan until 26? Acceptance of pre-existing conditions and not allowed to charge more to those with pre-existing conditions? No maximum lifetime caps?

Those add huge costs to insurance. What was done to curb the costs?
 

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After looking at this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/175028-sense-does-make.html I decided to check to see what a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois would pay for the same Health Insurance coverage I had when I was a self-employed 25 year old smoker back in 2002 and the difference is quite interesting.

I had a $2,500 deductible, $5,000 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance back then ($25 copay) and I paid about $300 a month for it.

Comparatively, a 25 year old male smoker in Illinois can now get a plan with a $1,500 deductible, $3,500 max out of pocket with 80% coinsurance ($10 copay) for about $240 per month.

Not too shabby. That's without adjusting for inflation, too.

If we adjust for inflation, my coverage then was the equivalent of a plan with a $3,250 deductible, $6,500 out of pocket with a $30 copay today and it cost me $390 per month (this website: CPI Inflation Calculator was used for inflation calculations).

What's interesting is that there is a plan available today that would only cost $230 per month that has $3250 as the max out of pocket cost and deductible which has a 100% coinsurance.

So it looks like I would have saved a lot of money on health insurance if Obamacare existed in 2002. I found this interesting.

It's a good anecdotal example of how the plan can help some people. I wonder what your premiums would be if the tweaks the Republicans wanted, such as being able to seek coverage across state lines and the increased access to competition for your business might have caused from that simple change.

My other observation would be that initially the premiums may be lower to generate participation, particularly from the 25 and younger age group who generally aren't interested in buying health insurance. After all, Obamacare falls flat without those people buying in, figuratively and literally.
 

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FWIW(essentially nothing), my current premium is ~$235. The one from your link that closest matches my current benefits is $411...but I am in a different state...

What state one lives in makes a big difference. I suppose it is because different insurance companies work in different states.
 

Tucker Case

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My biggest concern is will the plans STAY affordable year after year? Nothing was done to curb the root causes of escalating costs, in fact costs have been added, so my guess is they won't. I hope I'm wrong.

That's my concern too, but it is my concern both with and without obamacare.
 

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That's my concern too, but it is my concern both with and without obamacare.

Same here. Obamacare is essentially the exact same thing we have now, with more cost added with government (us) subsidizing. They went the exact opposite direction that they needed to go, IMO.
 

Tucker Case

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After all, Obamacare falls flat without those people buying in, figuratively and literally.

Which tells me that the insurance companies want Obamacare, because they are the one's setting the price to try and get enrollments up. This has been my problem with Obamacare from the start. It seems very much like a "corporate stooge" maneuver disguised as "helping the poor".
 

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Which tells me that the insurance companies want Obamacare, because they are the one's setting the price to try and get enrollments up. This has been my problem with Obamacare from the start. It seems very much like a "corporate stooge" maneuver disguised as "helping the poor".

Precisely, which is why partisan hacks attempting to describe Obamacare as "a government takeover of healthcare" or "socialist" make my head spin.
 
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