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Oberlin students: No midterms and no grades below C

Checking Google, there's about 3,000 students, so this isn't a majority of students who agree, so this isn't likely to pass. That's worth noting.



As far as asking for an alternative to exams, I think that is actually a reasonable request. I think many educators would agree that if there was the time for students to have each student withstand a 30 minute conversation (Read: questioning), that would be a far more reliable indicator of a students knowledge than any exam. That being said, people don't have time of that, especially for large classes sizes (50 students, let alone the 100/200/300 student intro STEM classes). So for the usual reasons, it won't happen. None the less, if I were a student, I would want it. I'd definitely be getting more for my money.

Bare in mind, I think most people think of this like sitting down with some hot cocoa and talking about Game of Thrones with your professor. That's a totally incorrect picture. This system, where you stand in front of a professor while they ask you questions, is the exact same system by which we award PhD's, the highest ranking academic degree. You don't take a test precisely because people take PhD's seriously. You wouldn't be allowed to get that degree because you just wrote a thesis or you just filled out a "really hard" exam that you could study for. It works, it cuts through the BS, and you're very, very responsible for the material.



Well, The Donald would co-sign that message, anyways. =)

1300 out of 3000 signed the petition?! That's amazing.

Alternative exams are not a reasonable request. A college education is supposed to set a kid up to be a functional member of the labor force.
 
And who told you all of this?

Some of it I got from reading his books. And I read an in depth article by a guy who really researched it awhile back. For the National Review if I recall it accurately. It was a good piece--not at all a hit piece--and was meticulous to mention those things Obama did that were helpful or useful. As for what a community organizer is and what a community organizer does, anybody can google that easily.

Edit: It was the National Review. It is still on their website after all these years:
| National Review
 
All this stupidity is about is that these students want to do this:


instead of this:


... and still pass their classes. But I have a simple solution to this: Ask a group of their prospective employers if they think that this is a good idea and go with their response....

Somehow or other these idiots have managed to convince themselves that participating in a drum circle, chanting and holding signs someone else made is the equivalent of an education. Every time I hear "education is a right" this kind of crap goes through my mind. Education is a responsibility, not a right.
 
Somehow or other these idiots have managed to convince themselves that participating in a drum circle, chanting and holding signs someone else made is the equivalent of an education. Every time I hear "education is a right" this kind of crap goes through my mind. Education is a responsibility, not a right.

For too many kids in college, being in college seems to be the goal, not getting an education...
 
For too many kids in college, being in college seems to be the goal, not getting an education...

I'd agree wholeheartedly. What I'm seeing is a case of building a resume based on what you have witnessed rather than what you have accomplished. We've come to a point where even expecting an employee to show up on time for work is "burdensome".
 
And back to the topic, I'm pretty tired of crybullies and their exquisitely delicate sensibilities. Having a "conversation" with your prof cannot substitute for a test that measures "learning outcomes" and blah-blah-blah. And there is no way a prof would have time for such undergrad "conversations" anyway--not when he or she may be teaching three or more classes with 25+ students plus all the professional development and service activities.

it is time that we as a society started stepping up and holding our ground. it is time for intolerance to such stupidity and nonsense.
the school should make a hard line on the students.

this is how it is. your activism is not paid for, you are still required to attend class and pass your classes.
if you fail then you fail you have no one to blame but your own for not studying.

unless you are out sick or have a medical emergency mid-term exams will be held as well as finals.

and as for nothing below a C well tough luck.
if you don't like it you are free to leave this campus no one is keeping you here.

it is time to end the nonsense.
 
1300 out of 3000 signed the petition?! That's amazing.

Alternative exams are not a reasonable request. A college education is supposed to set a kid up to be a functional member of the labor force.

It helps if you read people's posts before uttering a knee-jerk response.
 
My kids once had a high school science teacher who handed out the answers to quizzes for the students to memorize before they took the test. He was a very popular teacher. I was president of the PTA at the time and had just finished a short term on the school board--I was appointed to finish out the term for another member. So I was quite interested in this professors approach to teaching and asked him about it. His response was that he thought it silly to not let the kids know what it was they were supposed to learn.

I thought about that for a long time. What was wrong with it? I couldn't put my finger on why it bothered me. And finally it came to me. It gave the kids a sense of entitlement to get the grade without working for it. They really didn't have to learn anything. All they had to do was memorize some answers whether or not they had a clue what they memorized meant. (I was already at war with the athletic director who was pressuring teachers to give passing grades to the best players whether they earned them or not.)

Now this was decades ago when modern American liberalism was just beginning to insert itself into the media, science, and academia. But it struck me then as just plain wrong and was very bad for the kids who were going to have to compete with educated kids later on.

I can only imagine how really bad it is now.

It's bad and becoming worse. I never thought I'd live to see the day when plagiarism wasn't swiftly and mercilessly punished. Sometimes now it's not, and profs are encouraged not to assign the zero up to F that the plagiarized assignment has earned but instead to consider a D. Appalling.
 
1300 out of 3000 signed the petition?! That's amazing.

Alternative exams are not a reasonable request. A college education is supposed to set a kid up to be a functional member of the labor force.

The main thing used to qualify nuclear operators to operate nuclear powered aircraft carriers and submarines is through use of an oral board that takes between 1-3 hours (depending on how well you know what you are being asked, and the questions are extensive) to get through. The questions are intense. And it can be on anything you are expected to learn throughout school. This is a much more effective way to determine knowledge than a test because there is interaction. It does however require time which is not generally available in a college environment.
 
Why, in your opinion, is "interaction" important?

I think that strenuous written objective measurements are essential and coupled with an oral examination later the ideal was to assess a candidate.
 
Why, in your opinion, is "interaction" important?

I think that strenuous written objective measurements are essential and coupled with an oral examination later the ideal was to assess a candidate.

Interaction allows for an educator to assess where a person might be strong or weak in or whether someone is actually learning the material or just memorizing it, especially when it comes to concepts. There is only so much space available to write something and no feedback as to whether someone is on the right track or not or whether someone can expand. There is rarely flow to written exams. The questions may all cover the same subject but generally tend to jump around.

Not saying written exams aren't effective only that oral exams would be more effective at measuring actual learning if they were practical to do. They could also help someone prepare for an interview, get them used to having to share their knowledge in a question and answer type situation with someone else.
 
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Interaction allows for an educator to assess where a person might be strong or weak in or whether someone is actually learning the material or just memorizing it, especially when it comes to concepts. There is only so much space available to write something and no feedback as to whether someone is on the right track or not or whether someone can expand. There is rarely flow to written exams. The questions may all cover the same subject but generally tend to jump around.

Not saying written exams aren't effective only that oral exams would be more effective at measuring actual learning if they were practical to do. They could also help someone prepare for an interview, get them used to having to share their knowledge in a question and answer type situation with someone else.

Interviewing was what I was thinking about too--and what the pitfalls of these are, for example, an inexperienced or poor interviewer who goes off on or allows a tangent. I think oral exams are great; people need to develop poise in defending their knowledge and valuable ideas.

But a written exam is controlled. Everybody is held to the same measurements and standards, and what is written can be reviewed again and again.

Whether it's the completion of a degree or certification, there is a winnowing process. I think there needs to be broad-based and objective measurement first, whether it's the Toyota mechanics or police department's sergeant exam.
 
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