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Obamascare Fail

ocean515 said:
I shared the FACTS karl. You have nothing but obsession and delusion. Her premium increased 112% and she had to change doctors. Her original policy was cancelled because it didn't meet the new government standards. Tell me how closely that fact resembles the lies of Democrats and the President? "If you like your Doctor, you can keep them, etc."

Keep digging, China can't be far now. :thumbs:
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You can't win with Karl. He plays the "personal details" game...every time. You could provide every fact he's been demanding and if it doesn't let him score points in his little game, he'll demand a copy of her policy...with name, address and SS. When you refuse that info, he'll say, "See!! This is a made-up story! He's lying to us!!"
 
Mycroft said:
You can't win with Karl. He plays the "personal details" game...every time. You could provide every fact he's been demanding and if it doesn't let him score points in his little game, he'll demand a copy of her policy...with name, address and SS. When you refuse that info, he'll say, "See!! This is a made-up story! He's lying to us!!"
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Thanks for the heads up. I have come to understand where karl fits in the scheme of things from previous posts. Like others who share a similar "personality", I find posts from them quite interesting. Imagine what type of people they must be when they think they can demand others to follow their commands on an anonymous blog.
 
Mycroft said:
You can't win with Karl. He plays the "personal details" game...every time. You could provide every fact he's been demanding and if it doesn't let him score points in his little game, he'll demand a copy of her policy...with name, address and SS. When you refuse that info, he'll say, "See!! This is a made-up story! He's lying to us!!"
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:lol:... you guys keep running in here with your right wing talking points gleaned from right wing media but you can't provide any details, just vague claims. So, in frustration, you lash out with personal attacks and strawmen. Whole lotta fail in that approach, which any intelligent person can see, but for some reason you guys never do. Interesting, that . . . . .

Debate tip: don't repeat claims you don't understand, unless fail is your goal.
 
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ObamacareFail said:
First you must honestly represent what Ryan's bill was about. If you cannot be honest, we will not be having many discussions.
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ocean515 said:
[...] Imagine what type of people they must be when they think they can demand others to follow their commands on an anonymous blog.
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Indeed :lol:
 
Karl said:
:lol:... you guys keep running in here with your right wing talking points gleaned from right wing media but you can't provide any details, just vague claims. So, in frustration, you lash out with personal attacks. Whole lotta fail in that approach, which any intelligent person can see, but for some reason you guys never do. Interesting, that . . . . .
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LOL. I didn't run in here with anything other than facts experienced by my daughter. You did. And the only one who is still running is you Karl.

I'd suggest you stop, although I always enjoy exposure to the Progressive mind at work, so in truth, I'm kind of on the fence between encouraging you to continue, or just "walking away" from the circus altogether.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL. I didn't run in here with anything other than facts experienced by my daughter. You did. And the only one who is still running is you Karl. [...]
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You ran in with a few facts that are woefully incomplete in order to compare her previous policy with her current policy with regards to cost. You don't even know if she got her current policy from an exchange. You also don't even know why her old policy was cancelled, until now you suddenly do (post #146; you didn't post that info before). And when asked for these details you started making excuses and calling names. Big fail. I blame right wing scare-talk media ;)
 
Karl said:
:lol:... you guys keep running in here with your right wing talking points gleaned from right wing media but you can't provide any details, just vague claims. So, in frustration, you lash out with personal attacks and strawmen. Whole lotta fail in that approach, which any intelligent person can see, but for some reason you guys never do. Interesting, that . . . . .

Debate tip: don't repeat claims you don't understand, unless fail is your goal.
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shrug...

I post links to articles that deal in facts. I try to avoid articles that deal in spin. If you don't like the facts in the articles I post, then dispute them.

And, I don't think I lashed out at you with any kind of personal attack. I simply described the typical methods I've seen you use in this forum. Could be...the truth hurts, eh?
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...

I post links to articles that deal in facts. I try to avoid articles that deal in spin. If you don't like the facts in the articles I post, then dispute them.

And, I don't think I lashed out at you with any kind of personal attack. I simply described the typical methods I've seen you use in this forum. Could be...the truth hurts, eh?
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Nobody's talking to you; you simply butted in to hurl insults. Which is also a fail. Trend?
 
Threegoofs said:
You mean the horrible mandate that will effect....a couple percent of employers who don't offer healthcare right now?

Most companies -95%+ - with 50 employees or more offer health care insurance already.

The mandate will 'hit' and it will be a big nothingburger. Again.

Sounds suspiciously like a 'wait til NEXT year' argument to me!
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95% of employers with 50+ employees already offer healthcare insurance?

Not saying I don't believe you but where did that number come from?
 
Karl said:
Nobody's talking to you; you simply butted in to hurl insults. Which is also a fail. Trend?
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LOL!!

Dude...you responded to MY post. Sounds to me like YOU are talking to me.

Keep up with the denial, dude.
 
Karl said:
You ran in with a few facts that are woefully incomplete in order to compare her previous policy with her current policy with regards to cost. You don't even know if she got her current policy from an exchange. You also don't even know why her old policy was cancelled, until now you suddenly do (post #146; you didn't post that info before). And when asked for these details you started making excuses and calling names. Big fail. I blame right wing scare-talk media ;)
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LOL

Thank you for your opinion. I promise to give it the full consideration it deserves...
 
Karl said:
LOL... I knew you'd run away and hide because, quite simply, you don't know what you're talking about. Fail x3 :lamo
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I am not running....I am here. I just want honest discussion rather then lame partisan rhetoric.
 
Threegoofs said:
I've got to say that it must be YOU who doesnt understand the rest of the nation. In fact, I'm kind of wondering if you understand whats happening across the street from you.

:yawn:

You give me some anecdotal story (which is unable to be confirmed, natch), and it contradicts what we've seen nationally. You've been shown this information, in fact I believe the OP had it.

:yawn:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/u...ng-employer-premiums.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
This survey states:
"The key findings from the survey, conducted from January through May 2014, include a modest increase in the average premiums for family coverage (3%). Single coverage premiums are 2% higher than in 2013, but the difference is not statistically significant. Covered workers generally face similar premium contributions and cost-sharing requirements in 2014 as they did in 2013. "
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The NY article is fantasy. And the Kaiser article is lame considering that the employer mandate has not yet kicked in.


That sounds diametrically opposed to your story. And you apparently have not questioned your employer on this - you just seem to be happy to be oblivious as to why your employer seems to be raising your rates about FIFTY TIMES above the average increase.
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I don't have to ask. It's the difference in what they are now being forced to offer based on the upcoming mandate compared to what they offered pre-obamacare. And you can quit calling it "Your rates". I dropped out of the private sector primary health insurance market altogether. I did not sign up for the employer provided coverage. However I am in a position to know what the rates are.
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ocean515 said:
Thanks for the heads up. I have come to understand where karl fits in the scheme of things from previous posts. Like others who share a similar "personality", I find posts from them quite interesting. Imagine what type of people they must be when they think they can demand others to follow their commands on an anonymous blog.
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Funny thing is if you ask him for specifics on one of his own claims, he accuses you of running away.
 
Threegoofs said:
Oh. Well MY daughter had her premiums cut by 110% and was given access to any specialist she wants to see, plus free backrubs and boob jobs.

Thanks, ACA!
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And how much are the taxpayers kicking in for her subsidy?
 
Threegoofs said:
You mean the horrible mandate that will effect....a couple percent of employers who don't offer healthcare right now?

Most companies -95%+ - with 50 employees or more offer health care insurance already.

The mandate will 'hit' and it will be a big nothingburger. Again.

Sounds suspiciously like a 'wait til NEXT year' argument to me!
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The fascination with a mandate that applies to employers who almost unanimously already offer coverage is a bit odd.

I'd ask where the deep conviction that terrible effects are looming because of this provision comes from, but the same people have predicted doom for every other provision of the law too. Since none of that materialized for the rest of the law, they've got to pin their hopes on that final piece, benign as it is.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Threegoofs said:
I've got to say that it must be YOU who doesnt understand the rest of the nation. In fact, I'm kind of wondering if you understand whats happening across the street from you.

:yawn:

You give me some anecdotal story (which is unable to be confirmed, natch), and it contradicts what we've seen nationally. You've been shown this information, in fact I believe the OP had it.

:yawn:




The NY article is fantasy. And the Kaiser article is lame considering that the employer mandate has not yet kicked in.




I don't have to ask. It's the difference in what they are now being forced to offer based on the upcoming mandate compared to what they offered pre-obamacare. And you can quit calling it "Your rates". I dropped out of the private sector primary health insurance market altogether. I did not sign up for the employer provided coverage. However I am in a position to know what the rates are.
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1) I guess when you can just blithely dismiss the NYT and Kaiser studies as 'fantasy', we've established that you're not really 'here to learn'.

Again, the employer mandate affects a small number of businesses- as I posted before, companies with over 100 employees have near universal levels of coverage, and above 50 is well into the 90% range.

And you're in a position to know what your employers rates are, but mysteriously are totally uncurious as to try to understand why they (and I really have to add, supposedly, since these anecdotal stories seem thinner every day) increase rates massively compared to the rest of the nation.
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Threegoofs said:
ObamacareFail said:
1) I guess when you can just blithely dismiss the NYT and Kaiser studies as 'fantasy', we've established that you're not really 'here to learn'.

Again, the employer mandate affects a small number of businesses- as I posted before, companies with over 100 employees have near universal levels of coverage, and above 50 is well into the 90% range.

And you're in a position to know what your employers rates are, but mysteriously are totally uncurious as to try to understand why they (and I really have to add, supposedly, since these anecdotal stories seem thinner every day) increase rates massively compared to the rest of the nation.
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I don't relish rubbing your nose in it, but sometimes you just have to smell the stink on your own poop before you will accept reality.

I've posted many links to this thread...most of which have gone unread or ignored. Here is one that puts the lie to that statement of yours that I highlighted. And, guess what...all the stuff in that link is from BEFORE Obamacare really got off the ground. When the Employer Mandate kicks in, things will go from bad to worse.

100 Unintended Consequences of Obamacare | National Review Online

btw, before you spout off with something disingenuous like "Nation Review...that GOP rag!!", I invite you to actually dispute any of the items in the article. You know...be intellectually honest for a change.
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double post
 
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sangha said:
Not, costs are not higher. When you deduct the subsidies, the cost of coverage goes down dramatically.
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Um, no, they don't. Cost are the same as expenditures. Expenditures rise when the price for goods and services increase. Subsidies are what is used to pay for expenditures. They don't lower cost, they cover cost. There is a distinct difference.

Whether you are paying out of pocket, through insurance or with a subsidy, the expenditure (cost) doesn't disappear. It simply means that it is being covered through other means. In simpler terms, its like going to a supermarket and using a $1 dollar coupon on a $5 dollar box of cereal. The cereal still cost $5 dollars, but your liabilities become $4 dollars because you have used a coupon, or in this case a subsidy. The cost is inherently visible for people who don't have the privilege of the subsidy, ergo, people paying the full or higher price for said good or service.

It's basic finance. I mean, really basic...

fredgraph.png


This posters claims are obviously fictional (amongst other things). While it's possible that his premium went up, it defies credibility to claim that his premium doubled for a plan with *less* coverage.
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Explain why that would defy credibility.
 
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