Obamascare Fail

[LetsGoBrandon]

If you can tell us what section/segment of Medicare was cut, to what extent, and how many seniors 'lost' Medicare coverage or benefits then your argument will have some validity. Otherwise you have simply yet another empty right wing talking point.

First....do give us specifics on what in Ryan's proposed bill you think justified the "granny over the cliff" ads.

 

[ocean515]

So basically you're posting someone elses situation to validate your argument but you know very few details about that person's situation. Fail.

Fail?

Let see, I'm presenting facts as recounted to me by my daughter, and since I'm not interested in posting details at your command, you've concluded they aren't valid.

You Proglibs are freeking priceless. :lamo

 

[Threegoofs]

My employer is one of them, sport...however the cost of that insurance to the employees doubled and the deductibles skyrocketed. And those who were kicked down to part time status in advance of the mandate are offered nothing. It's not simply about how many employers offer insurance. When the insurance is expensive crap, the damage to the democrat party is still inflicted.

Well, Sparky, you must have had some crappy insurance, since a doubling of insurance cost is just not something that routinely happened over the last couple years, unless you had a mini-med plan, and in that case, you should be glad to be rid of it.

 

[Threegoofs]

Fail?

Let see, I'm presenting facts as recounted to me by my daughter, and since I'm not interested in posting details at your command, you've concluded they aren't valid.

You Proglibs are freeking priceless. :lamo

LOL. So its second hand anecdotal information. The best kind to base opinions on.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Well, Sparky, you must have had some crappy insurance, since a doubling of insurance cost is just not something that routinely happened over the last couple years, unless you had a mini-med plan, and in that case, you should be glad to be rid of it.

I dropped out of the private health insurance market altogether, sport. And yes...the cost of my employer's healthcare plan did double in advance of the employer mandate. The employer plans going up is no more of a surprise then the individual plans going up.

 

[Threegoofs]

I dropped out of the private health insurance market altogether, sport. And yes...the cost of my employer's healthcare plan did double in advance of the employer mandate. The employer plans going up is no more of a surprise then the individual plans going up.

Ah, yes. The Conservative thing to do. Have government take care of it.

Funny. My employer had no significant increases, mirroring what looks like most of the rest of the nation.

Now what do you make of your employers cost doubling, yet on average, the nation's cost as well as premiums only went up a fairly small amount - much less than in pre-ACA times?

 

[Karl]

First....do give us specifics on what in Ryan's proposed bill you think justified the "granny over the cliff" ads.

It's pretty well known that his bill privatized Medicare, replacing gov't paid coverage with a gov't voucher for private insurance for those who could even get it.

Your turn.

 

[Karl]

Fail? Let see, I'm presenting facts as recounted to me by my daughter [...]

Your facts are far too sparse for an informed analysis of her situation. You don't even know if she has a private policy or an exchange policy :lamo

If you're not interested in posting details then you should not have used her as a pawn to support your argument. Fail x2.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

It's pretty well known that his bill privatized Medicare, replacing gov't paid coverage with a gov't voucher for private insurance for those who could even get it.

Your turn.

First you must honestly represent what Ryan's bill was about. If you cannot be honest, we will not be having many discussions.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Ah, yes. The Conservative thing to do. Have government take care of it.

Funny. My employer had no significant increases, mirroring what looks like most of the rest of the nation.

Now what do you make of your employers cost doubling, yet on average, the nation's cost as well as premiums only went up a fairly small amount - much less than in pre-ACA times?

You obviously do not have the foggiest clue about most of the rest of the nation.

 

[Karl]

Actually it is the democrats pushing granny over the cliff with the cuts to medicare for the sake of adding funding to obamacare.

If you can tell us what section/segment of Medicare was cut, to what extent, and how many seniors 'lost' Medicare coverage or benefits then your argument will have some validity. Otherwise you have simply yet another empty right wing talking point.

First....do give us specifics on what in Ryan's proposed bill you think justified the "granny over the cliff" ads.

It's pretty well known that his bill privatized Medicare, replacing gov't paid coverage with a gov't voucher for private insurance for those who could even get it. Your turn.

First you must honestly represent what Ryan's bill was about. If you cannot be honest, we will not be having many discussions.

LOL... I knew you'd run away and hide because, quite simply, you don't know what you're talking about. Fail x3 :lamo

 

[Threegoofs]

You obviously do not have the foggiest clue about most of the rest of the nation.

I've got to say that it must be YOU who doesnt understand the rest of the nation. In fact, I'm kind of wondering if you understand whats happening across the street from you.

You give me some anecdotal story (which is unable to be confirmed, natch), and it contradicts what we've seen nationally. You've been shown this information, in fact I believe the OP had it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/u...ng-employer-premiums.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
This survey states:
"The key findings from the survey, conducted from January through May 2014, include a modest increase in the average premiums for family coverage (3%). Single coverage premiums are 2% higher than in 2013, but the difference is not statistically significant. Covered workers generally face similar premium contributions and cost-sharing requirements in 2014 as they did in 2013. "

That sounds diametrically opposed to your story. And you apparently have not questioned your employer on this - you just seem to be happy to be oblivious as to why your employer seems to be raising your rates about FIFTY TIMES above the average increase.

 

[sangha]

Ah, yes. The Conservative thing to do. Have government take care of it.

Funny. My employer had no significant increases, mirroring what looks like most of the rest of the nation.

Now what do you make of your employers cost doubling, yet on average, the nation's cost as well as premiums only went up a fairly small amount - much less than in pre-ACA times?

His cheap ass boss wouldn't spring for decent insurance, and when his boss stopped offering him cheap insurance, he ran to the nanny state govt for a bail out. He now has better coverage for less money, thanks to the govt, and all he can do is whine about the govt.

 

[WallStreetVixen]

I've got to say that it must be YOU who doesnt understand the rest of the nation. In fact, I'm kind of wondering if you understand whats happening across the street from you.

You give me some anecdotal story (which is unable to be confirmed, natch), and it contradicts what we've seen nationally. You've been shown this information, in fact I believe the OP had it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/u...ng-employer-premiums.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

2014 Employer Health Benefits Survey | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
This survey states:
"The key findings from the survey, conducted from January through May 2014, include a modest increase in the average premiums for family coverage (3%). Single coverage premiums are 2% higher than in 2013, but the difference is not statistically significant. Covered workers generally face similar premium contributions and cost-sharing requirements in 2014 as they did in 2013. "

That sounds diametrically opposed to your story. And you apparently have not questioned your employer on this - you just seem to be happy to be oblivious as to why your employer seems to be raising your rates about FIFTY TIMES above the average increase.

That is why it is called an average.

 

[Threegoofs]

That is why it is called an average.

It's called an outlier.

And being oblivious to the reason for it suggests either abject cluelessness or a made up story, don't you agree?

 

[WallStreetVixen]

It's called an outlier.

And being oblivious to the reason for it suggests either abject cluelessness or a made up story, don't you agree?

Perhaps. The story is anecdotal, and all anecdotal claims must be taken with a grain of salt. However, his anecdotal claims are merely a reflection of what does occur in the marketplace at any given time. For example, individual rates in California has reported to have increased anywhere from 22% to as much as 88% this year. No mention of employer-based insurance, but I would expect the growth to be less, considering employer-sponsored plans provide a bigger bargaining chip for obtaining insurance quotes.

Regardless, some premiums are increasing well above the average, while others are increase either below or at the average. Health care cost are rising slower than at any time within the last decade, but still rising nontheless.

 

[Threegoofs]

Perhaps. The story is anecdotal, and all anecdotal claims must be taken with a grain of salt. However, his anecdotal claims are merely a reflection of what does occur in the marketplace at any given time. For example, individual rates in California has reported to have increased anywhere from 22% to as much as 88% this year. No mention of employer-based insurance, but I would expect the growth to be less, considering employer-sponsored plans provide a bigger bargaining chip for obtaining insurance quotes.

Regardless, some premiums are increasing well above the average, while others are increase either below or at the average. Health care cost are rising slower than at any time within the last decade, but still rising nontheless.

Your statistic conveniently leaves our the fact that those increases don't bother to take subsidies into account. I'm guessing they are not comparing similar plans either.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5638831

 

[WallStreetVixen]

Your statistic conveniently leaves our the fact that those increases don't bother to take subsidies into account. I'm guessing they are not comparing similar plans either.

Obamacare Prices In California Only Going Up A Little Next Year

What does subsidies have to do with it? Cost are still higher whether you account for subsidies, or out of pocket expenses. Cost aren't eliminated or disappear simply because someone or something is covering the difference. That's really not how it works.

I'm also not sure what your source has to do with anything.

 

[Threegoofs]

What does subsidies have to do with it? Cost are still higher whether you account for subsidies, or out of pocket expenses. Cost aren't eliminated or disappear simply because someone or something is covering the difference. That's really not how it works.

I'm also not sure what your source has to do with anything.

It mentions subsidies. Thought it was relevant.

Cost overall is very, very good- healthcare inflation is lower than it has been in a decade or two.

 

[ocean515]

LOL. So its second hand anecdotal information. The best kind to base opinions on.

Yes, family members are always the most unreliable sources of information. :lamo

Desperate much! :fly:

 

[ocean515]

Your facts are far too sparse for an informed analysis of her situation. You don't even know if she has a private policy or an exchange policy :lamo

If you're not interested in posting details then you should not have used her as a pawn to support your argument. Fail x2.

I shared the FACTS karl. You have nothing but obsession and delusion. Her premium increased 112% and she had to change doctors. Her original policy was cancelled because it didn't meet the new government standards. Tell me how closely that fact resembles the lies of Democrats and the President? "If you like your Doctor, you can keep them, etc."

Keep digging, China can't be far now. :thumbs:

 

[CRUE CAB]

I haven't paid less than $5000 in twenty years. Maybe it was high time you got some real coverage. Eh? :roll:

BCBS is not real coverage. How about Health First, we have both. Same issue with both.
And instead of being a wannabe high brow, maybe you could point someone in a direction of good coverage without breaking the bank. I guess that would be too human of you though.

 

[calamity]

BCBS is not real coverage. How about Health First, we have both. Same issue with both.
And instead of being a wannabe high brow, maybe you could point someone in a direction of good coverage without breaking the bank. I guess that would be too human of you though.

Health care costs are extremely expensive...have been for years.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Health care costs are extremely expensive...have been for years.

And Obama care made it worse.

 

[sangha]

What does subsidies have to do with it? Cost are still higher whether you account for subsidies, or out of pocket expenses.

Not, costs are not higher. When you deduct the subsidies, the cost of coverage goes down dramatically.

This posters claims are obviously fictional (amongst other things). While it's possible that his premium went up, it defies credibility to claim that his premium doubled for a plan with *less* coverage.