Obama's Quest To Close GITMO

Crusdr57 said:

Apparently, Obama is willing to ignore the obvious, .........................

.....................It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice.

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One must remember this "War Criminal" Military justice system was set up by the Bush Administration.....To date they have tried 3 "war criminals" and basically lost all 3 cases..............In the same time period the Federal Courts of mainland USA has tried 300+ terrorist cases and won 96% of them.................and has jailed the same in the USA with little worry..............and done so at the savings of several billions of dollars less than the Bush model.................


But then that was to be expected............


BTW

Most of those "war criminals" still at Gitmo are not even charged with a crime..............bet ya didn't know that.........did ya!

Crusdr57 said:

As far as I know, none have been specifically charged, but all are labelled 'War Criminals' by the Feds.

Also, AFAIK, none have even been tried, let alone convicted, (this applies to most, if not all, of those already released, I've read there was once 700 inmates.) The lack of due process @ Gitmo is one of my main points here.

From thew OP: "The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice. "

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imyoda said:

One must remember this "War Criminal" Military justice system was set up by the Bush Administration.....To date they have tried 3 "war criminals" and basically lost all 3 cases..............In the same time period the Federal Courts of mainland USA has tried 300+ terrorist cases and won 96% of them.................and has jailed the same in the USA with little worry..............and done so at the savings of several billions of dollars less than the Bush model.................


But then that was to be expected............


***BTW
Most of those "war criminals" still at Gitmo are not even charged with a crime..............bet ya didn't know that.........did ya!

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***Maybe you should actually read my posts.

Crusdr57 said:

***Maybe you should actually read my posts.

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Please forgive me................I did not mean to say "you" but meant it to be the plural "you"..............yall............


And was posting in agreement............

imyoda said:

Please forgive me................I did not mean to say "you" but meant it to be the plural "you"..............yall............


And was posting in agreement............

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Alright, apology accepted. eace

Montecresto said:

The whole affairs a stinking mess, and Obama's not "looking good" by this point, it is way too late, too much damage has been done. He still needs to end the program, but it should have been done long ago. The system never was trustworthy, many of the prisoners were abducted (renditioned) off city streets the world over. People were paid to turn someone in. That's always fraught with potential for abuse.

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I agree w/ the above, and it's well-known the CIA, (and the like) will pay good money for info, etc....not surprising they would also pay for 'War Criminals'.

I find it hard to believe that ALL of the Detainees are totally innocent. I'm sure the Feds have detailed files on these Detainees' 'crimes' but instead of following through and bringing them to trial, etc. the Bush Admin. denied them most, if not all, of their rights by calling them "unlawful enemy combatants". It seems GWB was just trying to 'look good' re the war on terror.

From Wikipedia, " ....At the time of its establishment in January 2002, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said the prison camp was established to detain extraordinarily dangerous people, to interrogate detainees in an optimal setting, ***and to prosecute detainees for war crimes....***"

This linked article is an interesting read:

History of Guantanamo | New Security Action

"....In 2002, Camp Delta was opened at Guantanamo to hold the detainees swept up in President George W. Bush’s “War on Terror.” His administration’s Justice Department originally sought to deny the detainees any rights – arguing that the federal courts had no jurisdiction over foreigners captured abroad and held in Cuba. And, by labeling them unlawful combatants rather than prisoners of war, they similarly sought to deny them even the basic rights guaranteed POWs by the Geneva Convention...."

"....In the Court’s 2008 ruling in Boumediene v. Bush, the Supreme Court once again granted detainees the writ of habeas corpus and guaranteed that federal courts would be able to provide a crucial check against the government’s indefinite detention of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. Applying that decision, Federal District Court Judge Richard J. Leon ordered the release of 5 of the 6 men at the heart of that case because the government provided an insufficient justification for their continued detention.

In all, the detention center at Guantanamo Bay has housed a total of 779 detainees – approximately 550 of which have already been released or transferred into the custody of other governments. Only 3 detainees have ever been charged and convicted of a crime...."

This linked article supports the first.

Guantanamo Bay detention camp | United States detention facility, Cuba | Britannica.com

Here's Gitmo by the numbers w/ some interesting stats, (see link, below) and this pdf also contains links to associated articles, like this one:

By the Numbers | Miami Herald

Detainees convicted by military commission and still held at Guantánamo: 3.
Detainees Obama Administration is currently trying in military commissions: 7. The Pentagon may only plan to
prosecute 14 detainees in total, including those currently in pre-trial hearings.

Yearly cost to U.S. taxpayers of a prisoner in a maximum security federal prison: Approximately $78,000.
Yearly cost to hold each detainee at Guantánamo: More than $3 million.
Annual cost to operate Guantánamo: Approximately $397 million.

Those convicted of terrorism-related charges being held in U.S. prisons: 355 (NOT @ Gitmo).
Those convicted of terrorism-related charges who have escaped from any part of the federal prison system: 0

Bounties paid by Bush Administration to anyone who would hand over a possible terror suspect: $3,000 to
$25,000.

Detainees who have died at Guantánamo: 9.

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/gtmo-by-the-numbers.pdf

Crusdr57 said:

Apparently, Obama is willing to ignore the obvious, and very real dangers of releasing Gitmo detainees simply to honor his promise to close Gitmo. There are currently 103 Detainees at Gitmo, and these are the worst of the bunch.

Also, Obama is still considering transferring some of these to US Prisons, even though Congress has blocked the move more than once. (Most Americans are also against this transfer.)

Ten detainees leaving Gitmo in bulk transfer Thursday, defense officials say | Fox News

From article: "....Fifty-nine prisoners, however, currently are not eligible for transfer abroad, and the administration is trying to figure out what to do with them.

Though Congress has blocked transfers to the United States, the Pentagon nevertheless has conducted a series of site surveys of prisons in the U.S. in the past few months.

Federal prisons in Colorado, Kansas and South Carolina were assessed by defense officials. The Pentagon was supposed to deliver a report to Congress with its findings and recommendations, but that report has not yet been delivered and is currently stalled, according to officials familiar with the matter....."



'Justice delayed is Justice denied'. Most of these Detainees have been held without a trial for many yrs. The US Govt. has ignored the most basic of legal concepts which have their beginnings in the Magna Carta of 1215, and the later versions of this document which influenced the early American colonists and the formation of the American Constitution in 1787.

The Bush, and Obama Admins, (and FOX News) has been calling the Gitmo Detainees 'War Criminals' and therefore the Geneva Convention rules and laws also apply to them, but, holding them for yrs. without a trial, etc. and then releasing them so Obama can 'look good' isn't my idea of Justice. IF these Detainees did commit War Crimes, then, by all means, prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law, 'Let the punishment fit the crime'.


It appears the US Govt. has forgotten both how to prosecute 'War Criminals' and then properly SERVE Justice.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why we need a prison in Cuba to feel safe. We can certainly send them to a SuperMax in the middle of Colorado or Kansas or Nevada and get the same level of security. I believe they use Cuba for the obvious reason--to keep them off US soil and away from the influence of lawyers, the press or state laws. That's why the place need to be closed, IMO.

calamity said:

I'm not sure why we need a prison in Cuba to feel safe. We can certainly send them to a SuperMax in the middle of Colorado or Kansas or Nevada and get the same level of security. I believe they use Cuba for the obvious reason--to keep them off US soil and away from the influence of lawyers, the press or state laws. That's why the place need to be closed, IMO.

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I agree, and esp. keep them from Federal Laws as well.

My question has been, why not use this Facility to charge, try, prosecute, etc. the known Terrorists, and follow our Constitutional Laws?