• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obamacares flaws

Dude ...I'm not a right wing.

Listen ...take the scenario of a guy at 35 years old ...making say $100K/yr . He has a master degree and he does contracting working making decent money....and he's single....lives in a fancy apartment ...drives a BMW...and eats out every night. At any given moment he may have $30K in the bank....he has no healthcare ...because he's single and has no kids and at 35....he's still super-man!!

He gets in an auto accident with an illegal....they both get picked up by the ambulance and gets carted away to the nearest hospital. They both live and spend one night in the hospital......they both get a $150K bill!!

The illegal will take his bill and wipe his A$$....the 35 year old have to pay that bill....why? Because the hospital will take his wallet, and get all the information they need ...he cannot get away!! The Hospitals won't even try collecting that bill...they'll quickly send it to the next middle-man...."the collection agency".....he's not getting away!!

That's how it works pal!!

If he had healthcare ..that bill could be $10K or less!!

Sure he makes $100K/yr ....but that $150K will not be easy to pay off despite this!!

This happen all the time ...and the numbers are not over-blown......you will have then become ...a slave!!!

Get the God-Dam illegals off the system ......or don't tell me you fix healthcare!!
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
thinkforyoursel said:
Dude ...I'm not a right wing.

Listen ...take the scenario of a guy at 35 years old ...making say $100K/yr . He has a master degree and he does contracting working making decent money....and he's single....lives in a fancy apartment ...drives a BMW...and eats out every night. At any given moment he may have $30K in the bank....he has no healthcare ...because he's single and has no kids and at 35....he's still super-man!!

He gets in an auto accident with an illegal....they both get picked up by the ambulance and gets carted away to the nearest hospital. They both live and spend one night in the hospital......they both get a $150K bill!!

The illegal will take his bill and wipe his A$$....the 35 year old have to pay that bill....why? Because the hospital will take his wallet, and get all the information they need ...he cannot get away!! The Hospitals won't even try collecting that bill...they'll quickly send it to the next middle-man...."the collection agency".....he's not getting away!!

That's how it works pal!!

If he had healthcare ..that bill could be $10K or less!!

Sure he makes $100K/yr ....but that $150K will not be easy to pay off despite this!!

This happen all the time ...and the numbers are not over-blown......you will have then become ...a slave!!!

Get the God-Dam illegals off the system ......or don't tell me you fix healthcare!!
Click to expand...
 
YoungConserv said:
It's the best for average health care but not the best foe healthcare
Click to expand...

You are assuming that if single payer were enacted that there won't be any private insurance for profit companies anymore. There still will be and there still will be customers. These companies will have customers not by force but customers by choice. So if you think the profit model for health coverage is better... it'll still be there. Mostly as a supplemental insurance for things people want done that UHC won't cover.
 
YoungConserv said:
But profit based care is what drives the r&d of new products.
Click to expand...

If you want to see ME paranoid with my tin-foil hat on... profit based care is what drives r&d for treatment and in the same sense is restrictive in finding a cure for anything. There's not much profit in a cure when much more money can be made in long term treatment of the sick.
 
YoungConserv said:
Then why do the rich people from the country's with uhc come here for care
Click to expand...

Then there is Medical Tourism:

Medical tourism (MT) is patient movement from highly developed nations to other areas of the world for medical care, usually to find treatment at a lower cost. Medical tourism is different from the traditional model of international medical travel where patients generally journey from less developed nations to major medical centers in highly developed countries for medical treatment that is unavailable in their own communities.​

Top Travel Destinations for Medical Tourism
 
mak2 said:
It is an illusion under our current system.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. Under our current system, you control your circumstances. You control whether or not you have the cash or credit to pay for your health care. You control the insurance providers and medical providers. Under a UHC the government must take your right to life in order to control cost. If you choose to go to the doctor 4 times a month, just because, they can't pay for it. So, they take that right away and replace it with approved visits based on some table that some bureaucrat created that does not apply to your situation or consider your needs. You are literally at the mercy of the government for every ounce of health care you get. I'll keep my right to life, no matter the cost.
 
ksu_aviator said:
No it isn't. Under our current system, you control your circumstances. You control whether or not you have the cash or credit to pay for your health care. You control the insurance providers and medical providers. Under a UHC the government must take your right to life in order to control cost. If you choose to go to the doctor 4 times a month, just because, they can't pay for it. So, they take that right away and replace it with approved visits based on some table that some bureaucrat created that does not apply to your situation or consider your needs. You are literally at the mercy of the government for every ounce of health care you get. I'll keep my right to life, no matter the cost.
Click to expand...

yeah well there are times when fate delivers a sucker punch to the family jewels and you lose your ability to control your circumstances. then you are as vulnerable as rudderless ship caught in a storm.
 
poweRob said:
Then there is Medical Tourism:

Medical tourism (MT) is patient movement from highly developed nations to other areas of the world for medical care, usually to find treatment at a lower cost. Medical tourism is different from the traditional model of international medical travel where patients generally journey from less developed nations to major medical centers in highly developed countries for medical treatment that is unavailable in their own communities.​

Top Travel Destinations for Medical Tourism
Click to expand...

I know for a fact that there is a Saudi prince that goes to Raleigh NC monthly for medical treatment. Hell, even Canadians flood US doctors along the border because of the difficulty getting appointments in small towns. A friend of mine in Cranberry Portage drives 12 hours to the states twice a year to see a doctor. He and his wife pay for two nights of hotels and cash to see the doctor. The waiting list in CP is 5 years to get a "well care" visit.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
yeah well there are times when fate delivers a sucker punch to the family jewels and you lose your ability to control your circumstances. then you are as vulnerable as rudderless ship caught in a storm.
Click to expand...

I'm never a victim of my circumstances. Nor will I accept this as an excuse from anyone else.
 
ksu_aviator said:
I know for a fact that there is a Saudi prince that goes to Raleigh NC monthly for medical treatment. Hell, even Canadians flood US doctors along the border because of the difficulty getting appointments in small towns. A friend of mine in Cranberry Portage drives 12 hours to the states twice a year to see a doctor. He and his wife pay for two nights of hotels and cash to see the doctor. The waiting list in CP is 5 years to get a "well care" visit.
Click to expand...

You continue putting forth talking points. Meanwhile, I'll just leave this here:

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada

Lacking a national health care system of their own, thousands of Americans are tapping into Canada's -- illegally.

"It's not an epidemic in any one person's practice," said Keith MacLeod, an obstetrician in Windsor, Ontario, across from Detroit, "but I would estimate that from 12 to 20 of my patients at any one time are ineligible Americans. And I'm just one of 520 doctors in Windsor, 23,000 in Ontario."​
 
I have a masters degree in nursing education and healthcare administration. I have been in this field for 20+ years (damn, come to think of it a lot more than that). About 5 years ago my wife had a million plus dollar medical event. We make lots of money, had saved lots of money, and we had great insurance, we did not come close to controlling our own circumstances. We maxed out her policy, passed our maxs etc. Yet we still got billed and sued until we didn't even know what we were paying for. Just think about this rationally for about a second. All the other major countries in the world have UHC of some sort. How many of them are trying to go back to a system even similar to ours?
ksu_aviator said:
No it isn't. Under our current system, you control your circumstances. You control whether or not you have the cash or credit to pay for your health care. You control the insurance providers and medical providers. Under a UHC the government must take your right to life in order to control cost. If you choose to go to the doctor 4 times a month, just because, they can't pay for it. So, they take that right away and replace it with approved visits based on some table that some bureaucrat created that does not apply to your situation or consider your needs. You are literally at the mercy of the government for every ounce of health care you get. I'll keep my right to life, no matter the cost.
Click to expand...
 
Most medical tourism is to India anyway. Anecdotal stories about Saudi princes coming to US just indicates they cant grasp the concept of a healthcare system.
poweRob said:
You continue putting forth talking points. Meanwhile, I'll just leave this here:

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada

Lacking a national health care system of their own, thousands of Americans are tapping into Canada's -- illegally.

"It's not an epidemic in any one person's practice," said Keith MacLeod, an obstetrician in Windsor, Ontario, across from Detroit, "but I would estimate that from 12 to 20 of my patients at any one time are ineligible Americans. And I'm just one of 520 doctors in Windsor, 23,000 in Ontario."​
Click to expand...
 
I'll also leave this here as well:

Palin Admits To Travelling To Canada For Health Care

In November of 2009, Sarah Palin — who is always suggesting that health care reform will lead to socialism — insisted that Canada needs to reform its health care system to “let the private sector take over.” But this past Saturday in Calgary, Canada — at “her first Canadian appearance since stepping down as governor of Alaska last summer” — Palin seemed to deviate from her fear of socialized Canadian medicine when she revealed that her family may have benefited from the Canadian system:

PALIN: We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada. And I think now, isn’t that ironic?​
 
poweRob said:
You continue putting forth talking points. Meanwhile, I'll just leave this here:

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada

Lacking a national health care system of their own, thousands of Americans are tapping into Canada's -- illegally.

"It's not an epidemic in any one person's practice," said Keith MacLeod, an obstetrician in Windsor, Ontario, across from Detroit, "but I would estimate that from 12 to 20 of my patients at any one time are ineligible Americans. And I'm just one of 520 doctors in Windsor, 23,000 in Ontario."​
Click to expand...

I never said there aren't cheap bastards in the US. But that doesn't mean our system is broken...just Canada's.
 
Our system is broken. It is the main cause of bankruptcy in the county, we have the most expensive healthcare in the world, and not by a little bit, and it is at best rated about 27th to 30th. What the hell aint broken.
ksu_aviator said:
I never said there aren't cheap bastards in the US. But that doesn't mean our system is broken...just Canada's.
Click to expand...
 
mak2 said:
I have a masters degree in nursing education and healthcare administration. I have been in this field for 20+ years (damn, come to think of it a lot more than that). About 5 years ago my wife had a million plus dollar medical event. We make lots of money, had saved lots of money, and we had great insurance, we did not come close to controlling our own circumstances. We maxed out her policy, passed our maxs etc. Yet we still got billed and sued until we didn't even know what we were paying for. Just think about this rationally for about a second. All the other major countries in the world have UHC of some sort. How many of them are trying to go back to a system even similar to ours?
Click to expand...

My policy (which I cannot renew because of the new law) had a 10 million dollar limit. Granted, I paid the first $5,000....but I'll never have a $10m event. You didn't control your circumstances because you failed to plan...but your failure to plan was under your control.

BTW...did she not get the treatment she needed? Are you more upset at the care or the cost? Because under UHC in places like Britain a panel ways the cost of treatment to the value of life and either approves or rejects care. Which side of that death coin would your wife have been on?
 
ksu_aviator said:
My policy (which I cannot renew because of the new law) had a 10 million dollar limit. Granted, I paid the first $5,000....but I'll never have a $10m event. You didn't control your circumstances because you failed to plan...but your failure to plan was under your control.

BTW...did she not get the treatment she needed? Are you more upset at the care or the cost? Because under UHC in places like Britain a panel ways the cost of treatment to the value of life and either approves or rejects care. Which side of that death coin would your wife have been on?
Click to expand...

You want to pay for expensive healthcare, and you are saying "they" won't allow you? "They" won't take your money anymore. I'm not so sure this is believable.
 
You pay a 5000 dollar deductible and you want to renew it. Ok, good idea. Since we had great insurance she got all the care she needed, and in many cases, when the insurance would pay, much more than she needed, for example helicopter ride and PT for an open heart. She didn't have an open heart, but the insurance would pay. Were you the fellow in another thread talking about not being able to renew your policy because of Obama? Statistically she would have gotten the same or better care under UHC,as indicated by many studies. Funny, we got her to the local ER and she laid on a gurney screaming in pain until they checked out the insurance status, then they called the helicopter. Took them longer to verify the insurance than it would have to transport her by ground ambulance. The $13,000 basic ambulance bill was in the mail box when I got home to take a shower the first time. Our system is pitiful, it is designed solely for profit.
ksu_aviator said:
My policy (which I cannot renew because of the new law) had a 10 million dollar limit. Granted, I paid the first $5,000....but I'll never have a $10m event. You didn't control your circumstances because you failed to plan...but your failure to plan was under your control.

BTW...did she not get the treatment she needed? Are you more upset at the care or the cost? Because under UHC in places like Britain a panel ways the cost of treatment to the value of life and either approves or rejects care. Which side of that death coin would your wife have been on?
Click to expand...
 
mak2 said:
Our system is broken. It is the main cause of bankruptcy in the county, we have the most expensive healthcare in the world, and not by a little bit, and it is at best rated about 27th to 30th. What the hell aint broken.
Click to expand...

Those care rankings are bogus because they look at cost as a factor and never take into account culture or genetics. The USA is ranked #1 in customer satisfaction. #1. What's broken is the government provided care and the type of insurance we buy. Medicare/caid, SCHIP and the like give away services for little cost and drive up demand while preventing providers from recovering their costs and forcing them to pass on costs to those that have private insurance.

In fact, the biggest waste in the US is the over purchase of insurance. Most people (or their employers) pay for visits to the doctor that they never use. If this country were to eliminate full coverage plans for high deductible plans, we'd save in the neighborhood $700 billion in a year. That's nearly half of all health care expenses. That'd make the US the cheapest country in the world for health care. But, let's not muddy the water with facts right?

Here's why I used to do:

$95/ month for three people
$5,000 ded
100% coverage after ded met
$10 million year/life limit

Yes, we paid $75 per doctor's visit. Once a year for me, 4-5 times a year for the little lady and 8 visits for the new born. So we paid, in a year, $1050 in out of pocket and $1140 for the plan for a grand total of $2190. The most we could have paid in a year was $6140. Oh, and we had a tiered Rx plan that was included and part of the ded. If we purchased a full blown plan, the premium alone was $5400 and still had a $3000 ded, so we could go over $8400 in a year with the "better" plan...and the lifetime max was lower, like $3-5 million.

The whole problem with our system is government involvement and this stupid idea that anything more than a $20 copay will cost us more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom