Obamacare: Walgreens Dropping Current Coverage for 160,000 Workers.....

[jonny5]

It will end up with a two tier medical system. Free crappy docs for the masses while the good docs will only take private patients that can afford them.

At which point wont the govt just force them to see patients?

 

[jonny5]

No one can afford them but the super wealthy. Sure, you might be able to pay for routine visits and colds, but one surgery can run thousands of dollars just for the doctor.

People routinely purchase $20k cars and 200k homes. Whats the difference?

 

[sawyerloggingon]

At which point wont the govt just force them to see patients?

That is a possibility and at that point doctors will set sail for other countries, good docs anyway.

 

[Jetboogieman]

That is a possibility and at that point doctors will set sail for other countries, good docs anyway.

Other countries... that have Universal Healthcare... where they'll have to "be forced to see patients"...

Unless they want to move to some 3rd world ****hole.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Other countries... that have Universal Healthcare... where they'll have to "be forced to see patients"...

Unless they want to move to some 3rd world ****hole.

Lots of people retire to 3rd world s*** holes because they are rich there. It would be sad to see our best and brightest forced to do the same. The other thing is if docs are forced to take less compensation we may face a severe shortage of new docs in the future like we do nurses now.

 

[jonny5]

That is a possibility and at that point doctors will set sail for other countries, good docs anyway.

I assume people would just go into some other high paying field. Sports, Acting, Politics. Liberals are basically deciding for the rest of us that health care is a service to be provided by govt like education.

 

[Maenad]

People routinely purchase $20k cars and 200k homes. Whats the difference?

The difference is they get the money for those things on loan from the bank. The bank can repossess your purchase. No doctor is going to take payment over several years, and the bank isn't going to finance something it can't take back. I do recall my gyn divided up the copay we had for that and we paid it out in installments, but it had to be paid before the baby came. I had two $50,000 surgeries within 4 years, and now take medicine that is $100,000/year. People who have a would lose it real fast.

Using the car analogy is how plastic surgeons convince women to allow them to mutilate their bodies.

 

[Maenad]

Lots of people retire to 3rd world s*** holes because they are rich there. It would be sad to see our best and brightest forced to do the same. The other thing is if docs are forced to take less compensation we may face a severe shortage of new docs in the future like we do nurses now.

Nurses will just go to school to be NPs. That is what happened in TN. Every nurse I worked with on a psych unit of a private hospital became an NP within 2 years of the advent of TennCare. That opportunity is one thing that is driving the staff level nursing shortage to some extent. I personally see NPs when I can and prefer them to doctors.

 

[Maenad]

Yep, and that was what the Repubs Weekly Address was about back on Aug 18 of this year......as with Obamacare they want to rely on the Honor system to verify who is eligible for subsidies. Only way to make the Ponzi scheme work.



In this week's address, Rep. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV) urges the President and Senate Democrats to support the bipartisan, House-passed delay of the individual mandate in the president's health care law. You and your family deserve the same relief the President recently gave to big businesses by delaying their employer mandate - it's only fair.....snip~

I think the amount of fraud that is already going on precludes any semblance of an 'honor system' working.

 

[jonny5]

The difference is they get the money for those things on loan from the bank. The bank can repossess your purchase. No doctor is going to take payment over several years, and the bank isn't going to finance something it can't take back. I do recall my gyn divided up the copay we had for that and we paid it out in installments, but it had to be paid before the baby came. I had two $50,000 surgeries within 4 years, and now take medicine that is $100,000/year. People who have a would lose it real fast.

Using the car analogy is how plastic surgeons convince women to allow them to mutilate their bodies.

Hospitals routinely take payments. And banks will loan you money for things they cant reposses as well. They simply have you put down collateral and make sure you arent a credit risk. Furthermore, would a surgery be as expensive without govt regulation and litigation?

 

[Maenad]

Hospitals routinely take payments. And banks will loan you money for things they cant reposses as well. They simply have you put down collateral and make sure you arent a credit risk. Furthermore, would a surgery be as expensive without govt regulation and litigation?

Yes, a hospital will take payments until the day you die, then sue your estate. Surgery is more expensive for the uninsured because it is the insurance company that negotiates the fees with the providers. Every time I get and EOB, I notice the column that states what the discount was. You CAN negotiate with a provider but most people simply don't know this and they don't even know who to go to let alone how to do the negotiation.

I've been around this block multiple times.

 

[jonny5]

Yes, a hospital will take payments until the day you die, then sue your estate. Surgery is more expensive for the uninsured because it is the insurance company that negotiates the fees with the providers. Every time I get and EOB, I notice the column that states what the discount was. You CAN negotiate with a provider but most people simply don't know this and they don't even know who to go to let alone how to do the negotiation.

I've been around this block multiple times.

Then the point is made. If people can buy a 20k car every decade (not to mention tons of other stuff) then they can afford surgery. People simply choose not to save money, budget, or prepare.

 

[MMC]

I think the amount of fraud that is already going on precludes any semblance of an 'honor system' working.

She says the Bill is Bi-partisan. But I would like to start hearing these Democrats names that are standing up and saying to delay the Obamacare Mandate.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Nurses will just go to school to be NPs. That is what happened in TN. Every nurse I worked with on a psych unit of a private hospital became an NP within 2 years of the advent of TennCare. That opportunity is one thing that is driving the staff level nursing shortage to some extent. I personally see NPs when I can and prefer them to doctors.

Old docs will retire early, young would be docs will pick a more lucrative profession and there WILL be a doc shortage.

 

[Greenbeard]

You are mistaken. Not all doctors take Medicare patients without an additional annual fee tacked on. My elderly parents were told by their docs that in order to remain a patient it will cost them several thousand a year up front. They can't afford that so they are losing their doctors and now have to search for new docs that take Medicare patients, assuming they can even find one.

"Fewer American doctors are treating patients enrolled in the Medicare health program for seniors, reflecting frustration with its payment rates and pushback against mounting rules, according to health experts.

Fewer American doctors are treating patients enrolled in the Medicare health program for seniors, reflecting frustration with its payment rates and pushback against mounting rules, according to health experts. Stefanie Ilgenfritz reports. Photo: Ben Sklar for The Wall Street Journal.

Somewhat misleading reporting. More doctors left the program than in previous years, but it's not correct to say that fewer are participating this year than last. Given that many more doctors joined the program than left it last year, on net the number of doctors accepting Medicare grew by tens of thousands last year:

What the Journal didn't report is that, per CMS, the number of physicians who agreed to accept Medicare patients continues to grow year-over-year, from 705,568 in 2012 to 735,041 in 2013.

As a matter of fact, the percentage of physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients is now slightly larger than the percentage accepting new privately insured patients (both hover near 90%).

My parents had their current insurance for 20 years, just a huge coincidence they are losing it as Obama care comes on line I guess.

I thought your elderly parents are insured by Medicare?

 

[imagep]

Yes, a hospital will take payments until the day you die, then sue your estate. Surgery is more expensive for the uninsured because it is the insurance company that negotiates the fees with the providers. Every time I get and EOB, I notice the column that states what the discount was. You CAN negotiate with a provider but most people simply don't know this and they don't even know who to go to let alone how to do the negotiation.

I've been around this block multiple times.

One of our local hospitals automatically gives the uninsured a 30% discount. I asked them why they did that, they told me that it was the same discount that they typically give insurance companies.

This negotiating that insurance companies do doesn't amount to squat. It just results in prices that are jacked up so that the provider can give a discount. Insurance companies know this, but don't really care what the final price is. It's to their advantage for medical costs to be outrageous in price, because that better justifies their existence, and high prices for insurance.

 

[imagep]

Old docs will retire early, young would be docs will pick a more lucrative profession and there WILL be a doc shortage.

And noting the shortage of health care professionals, many new people will change their major from "fundecided", or sociology, to the field of medicine, because they ultimately want jobs.

It's not like we aren't constantly producing new health care professionals.

 

[sangha]

Walgreen's is still going to subsidize the employees' insurance but the employees will be buying it from somewhere else.

I am missing the "there" that must be there.

And the health care exchanges are getting 160,000 new customers.

And this is supposed to be A Bad Thing because........why? :shrug:

 

[imagep]

The difference is they get the money for those things on loan from the bank. The bank can repossess your purchase. No doctor is going to take payment over several years, and the bank isn't going to finance something it can't take back. I do recall my gyn divided up the copay we had for that and we paid it out in installments, but it had to be paid before the baby came. I had two $50,000 surgeries within 4 years, and now take medicine that is $100,000/year. People who have a would lose it real fast.

Using the car analogy is how plastic surgeons convince women to allow them to mutilate their bodies.

There are lots of lenders who will loan money for medical purposes. I have an account with one of them, it's called "CareCredit", just in case. If you google "easy payment plan" and "doctors", you will find that many doctors will accept some sort of payment plan.

The only reason that you don't know this is most likely because you have never bothered to shop for care. People don't bother to shop for care when their insurance pays for most of the cost. which is a good reason that we should start moving away from our system of insurance. When customers don't shop, providers don't really have a reason to be price competitive.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Somewhat misleading reporting. More doctors left the program than in previous years, but it's not correct to say that fewer are participating this year than last. Given that many more doctors joined the program than left it last year, on net the number of doctors accepting Medicare grew by tens of thousands last year:



As a matter of fact, the percentage of physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients is now slightly larger than the percentage accepting new privately insured patients (both hover near 90%).

I thought your elderly parents are insured by Medicare?

I can only speak for my parents situation. They have lost their so called Cadillac insurance and their doctors and are now being forced onto Medicare.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

And noting the shortage of health care professionals, many new people will change their major from "fundecided", or sociology, to the field of medicine, because they ultimately want jobs.

It's not like we aren't constantly producing new health care professionals.

If you think about it being a doctor is a crappy job and the only reason people do it is for the money.

 

[Maenad]

Old docs will retire early, young would be docs will pick a more lucrative profession and there WILL be a doc shortage.

NPs filled the gap in TN. And many studies show patients prefer us. We are out there in the specialties, now.

 

[Maenad]

Then the point is made. If people can buy a 20k car every decade (not to mention tons of other stuff) then they can afford surgery. People simply choose not to save money, budget, or prepare.

Actually, no the point is not made. I am on a life sustaining med that costs $100K/year. Even before I retired, I couldn't have paid for it because taxes took 40% of my 6 figure pay. I didn't have an extra $100K/year just lying around. That's the problem. Not all care, and not all medicine costs the same.

 

[Maenad]

One of our local hospitals automatically gives the uninsured a 30% discount. I asked them why they did that, they told me that it was the same discount that they typically give insurance companies.

This negotiating that insurance companies do doesn't amount to squat. It just results in prices that are jacked up so that the provider can give a discount. Insurance companies know this, but don't really care what the final price is. It's to their advantage for medical costs to be outrageous in price, because that better justifies their existence, and high prices for insurance.

That is a service to the community, because I can tell you that most hospitals do not do that. They probably pick up grants somewhere to cover the difference.

 

[Maenad]

There are lots of lenders who will loan money for medical purposes. I have an account with one of them, it's called "CareCredit", just in case. If you google "easy payment plan" and "doctors", you will find that many doctors will accept some sort of payment plan.

The only reason that you don't know this is most likely because you have never bothered to shop for care. People don't bother to shop for care when their insurance pays for most of the cost. which is a good reason that we should start moving away from our system of insurance. When customers don't shop, providers don't really have a reason to be price competitive.

Actually, when my children were at home, I did shop and I negotiated my copays with doctors. But you aren't going to find a bank that will lend someone with the illness I have $100K/year EVERY year for their medicine. It will not happen. I have learned the finance of this disease. Banks are not involved. You are thinking small potatoes as costs go. Not the big nasty like cancer or some orphan disease. And I'm finished discussing it with you because it is ridiculous and does not speak to the issue.