• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obamacare Not Only Doesn't Cover, IT KILLS! (1 Viewer)

ChezC3

Relentless Thinking Fury
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,228
Reaction score
4,458
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Fountain Hills man says he may soon have to get another job just to pay for healthcare insurance under the new Affordable Care Act.

Michael Cerpok, is a high school drop-out, one of six kids born to a school teacher, and doesn’t come from a wealthy family. He has run two businesses for more than 25 years and says he may have to do more to literally stay alive.

“I've worked hard because I've had to, and I’ve had to, because cancer runs in my family," says Cerpok, who picked his current health insurance based on that family history. His monthly premium is just about half of his monthly take-home pay.

Back in 2006, he found out he had an incurable form of leukemia that requires ongoing treatment until he dies.

In 2012, his treatment bill was more than $350,000. But because of his insurance, his out-of-pocket was only $4,500.

That’s about to change because Michael just got a letter from his insurance carrier saying as of January 1, he would be dropped from coverage because of new regulations under Obamacare. His doctor at the Mayo Clinic may be gone as well.


Fountain Hills man dropped from health insurance because of new regulations
 
I'm sorry for your situation and I grieve for the future of our health care. I agree with a Republican representative, that no American citizen should be required to purchase health care insurance. I don't know why it's called affordable health care, when the American people can't afford health insurance. We certainly didn't have to elect a president to tell us to purchase health insurance, we already knew that. It's just many of us couldn't afford it, like we can't now, but now we have no choice or much of a say about it. I'm sorry, I can't remember when the government has ever made anything better, with regards to the American people's life. We were forced to pay social security and once there became a large amount sitting there, instead of leaving it there, they decided to use it and pay it back later, which they never did. Social security is busted. Now they started Obama Care and before it was implemented, the money collected and given to the IRS to take care of, 67 million dollars of it is missing. I don't know why the American people think things are going to get better if we involve the government, it never seems to happen. Some people thought Obama Care was going to be free, but obviously it's not. A daughter of a friend I know, went to get some medical care and was still charged $45 with Obama Care. From all I've heard, medical care is going to get so bad, especially if it's like some other medical social programs. A Canadian, said a few years ago, that his mother was waiting 4 years for a knee replacement, so they finally came to the U.S. to have it done. As I understand it, the problems with socialized medicine controlled by the government is, they choose who gets what treatment.
 

Then his health insurance plan doesn't comply with the AHA. He'll be able to go into the exchange and buy a policy that, in all likelihood, will be less money than he's paying now. If he's had leukemia since 2006, in those seven years, his insurance premiums have likely risen 50-100% by now.

Yeah, he's losing the insurance that he's got. But, thanks to the AHA, he'll be able to go out and get a new policy. He'll be just fine. You'll note that he says his premium right now is over half his take-home pay. That will absolutely NOT be true with new policies.
 
A second job to pay for his Obamacare plan?
Maybe so, but the man will likely be very comfortably sitting pretty with his generous OB/GYN coverage.
 
Then his health insurance plan doesn't comply with the AHA. He'll be able to go into the exchange and buy a policy that, in all likelihood, will be less money than he's paying now. If he's had leukemia since 2006, in those seven years, his insurance premiums have likely risen 50-100% by now.

Yeah, he's losing the insurance that he's got. But, thanks to the AHA, he'll be able to go out and get a new policy. He'll be just fine. You'll note that he says his premium right now is over half his take-home pay. That will absolutely NOT be true with new policies.

And what if he can't keep his doctors with the new coverage? Why should he be forced to get a different plan? ACA needs to go!
 
And what if he can't keep his doctors with the new coverage? Why should he be forced to get a different plan? ACA needs to go!

The same thing happened in the pre ACA days too. Jeez you guys.
 
The same thing happened in the pre ACA days too. Jeez you guys.

The Government forced you to get new insurance pre ACA? And it was completely un-affordable? And taxpayers were footing the bill for deadbeats?
 
The same thing happened in the pre ACA days too. Jeez you guys.

There wasn't a 7 foot tall stack of Government regulations in pre ACA days.
 
And what if he can't keep his doctors with the new coverage? Why should he be forced to get a different plan? ACA needs to go!

If he can't keep his doctors? Well, nothing is perfect. ACA's not going anywhere. I'm not that crazy about it. It's got plenty of short-comings that probably won't be known for some time. But they'll fix 'em. For those who think the law is going to be repealed? You've really got to get over it.
 
Then his health insurance plan doesn't comply with the AHA. He'll be able to go into the exchange and buy a policy that, in all likelihood, will be less money than he's paying now. If he's had leukemia since 2006, in those seven years, his insurance premiums have likely risen 50-100% by now.

Yeah, he's losing the insurance that he's got. But, thanks to the AHA, he'll be able to go out and get a new policy. He'll be just fine. You'll note that he says his premium right now is over half his take-home pay. That will absolutely NOT be true with new policies.
according to the information provided in the OP post he had to pay 4,500 out of pocket. wish it would have provided his monthly premium cost. but under Obama care he will be paying 6,300 out of pocket so unless his mouthy premiums is 160 dollars less per month then what he did pay he will not get a better deal

from the article

"Now it doesn't mean I can't go see my current doctor, but my $4,500 out-of-pocket, is going to turn into a minimum of $26,000 out-of-pocket to see the doctor that I’ve been seeing the last seven years," he said.
 
Last edited:
There wasn't a 7 foot tall stack of Government regulations in pre ACA days.

Yeah, you're right.

So without the government as an excuse, insurance companies dumped people all the time. Policies were always rendered old and graced out, people were dropped for various reasons, issues and problems weren't covered in general, and the cost was so high people couldn't afford it, etc.

That's what he's referring to. People are trying to present health insurance as if it's been some stable, reliable, dependable, strong source in our country and it's not and never has been - and apparently never will be seeing as how these new regulations don't address some of these issues.
 
Last edited:
according to the information provided in the OP post he had to pay 4,500 out of pocket. wish it would have provided his monthly premium cost. but under Obama care he will be paying 6,300 out of pocket

Sorry, I don't buy that $4,500 out of pocket. I've bought too much individual health insurance in my life to believe that. No WAY. Normally, when one talks about "out of pocket," they are NOT including their health insurance PREMIUM. But, in any case, there's absolutely no WAY this guy was just paying $4,500 for everything with his current policy.

He's in his 40's at least by the OP account. In order for him to only have a total of $4,500 out of pocket including his premium, he would have to be paying less than $400 a month for his insurance with a zero deductible policy. Since we know it's an individual policy, and since we also know he's had it since 2006, that is absolutely impossible.

Edit: Oh, he says he works so hard because his insurance costs half of his take-home pay. That further solidifies that his $4,500 does not include his insurance premiums.
 
Sorry, I don't buy that $4,500 out of pocket. I've bought too much individual health insurance in my life to believe that. No WAY. Normally, when one talks about "out of pocket," they are NOT including their health insurance PREMIUM. But, in any case, there's absolutely no WAY this guy was just paying $4,500 for everything with his current policy.

He's in his 40's at least by the OP account. In order for him to only have a total of $4,500 out of pocket including his premium, he would have to be paying less than $400 a month for his insurance with a zero deductible policy. Since we know it's an individual policy, and since we also know he's had it since 2006, that is absolutely impossible.

Edit: Oh, he says he works so hard because his insurance costs half of his take-home pay. That further solidifies that his $4,500 does not include his insurance premiums.

he didn't claim the 4,500 was his premium included now did he. your just trying to make a wrongful assumption he did so to make your you BS sound beleavable

and to let you know the 6,300 Obama care deductible does not include monthly premium also
 
Yeah, you're right.

So without the government as an excuse, insurance companies dumped people all the time. Policies were always rendered old and graced out, people were dropped for various reasons, issues and problems weren't covered in general, and the cost was so high people couldn't afford it, etc.

That's what he's referring to. People are trying to present health insurance as if it's been some stable, reliable, dependable, strong source in our country and it's not and never has been - and apparently never will be seeing as how these new regulations don't address some of these issues.

They didn't have to drop them. They priced them out. The old business model was that, as an example, an insurance company would come out with The Sunshine Policy. They'd enroll (example) 100,000 people in that policy and then close it to enrollment. Remember, those 100,000 were all healthy people because they wouldn't insure them any other way. Even high blood pressure would exclude. All young. All healthy. As time passed? Those 100,000 began submitting claims. And the insurance company would adjust their yearly premiums to reflect the change from "all healthy" to "not so healthy." As more time passed, they got even unhealthier. Yearly premiums kept rising on these 100,000. The healthy ones? They shopped for "new" insurance. (Back to the "everybody's healthy mode.) So healthy people cancelled their Sunshine Policies and got new ones. That left sicker and sicker people in the Sunshine Policy, and their rates continued to climb.

I was uninsurable eventually, and I became one of those "unhealthy Sunshine Policy holders." I couldn't change policies. Before I finally went into the Illinois ICHIP health insurance program (subsidized), I was paying American Family Insurance $850 a month for my $5,200 deductible insurance policy. How many people can afford that? But since I had assets to protect? I HAD to afford it.

That's how insurance companies got rid of their sickest policy holders. They priced them out.
 
If he can't keep his doctors? Well, nothing is perfect. ACA's not going anywhere. I'm not that crazy about it. It's got plenty of short-comings that probably won't be known for some time. But they'll fix 'em. For those who think the law is going to be repealed? You've really got to get over it.

Keep fighting is what I say. Keep fighting for the good of the American People. Democrats aren't willing to do what is good for the American People.
 
The Government forced you to get new insurance pre ACA? And it was completely un-affordable? And taxpayers were footing the bill for deadbeats?

Nope but the insurance companies did, when they dumped your sorry ass because they found out that at age 15 you got special medication for your zits and that may be connected to your leukaemia now, and hence it was a pre-existing condition and they wont cover that.

THAT is how it worked before AHA and THAT killed 100s of thousands if not millions of people... so..
 
Nope but the insurance companies did, when they dumped your sorry ass because they found out that at age 15 you got special medication for your zits and that may be connected to your leukaemia now, and hence it was a pre-existing condition and they wont cover that.

THAT is how it worked before AHA and THAT killed 100s of thousands if not millions of people... so..

And the Hyperbole continues.... :roll:
 
he didn't claim the 4,500 was his premium included now did he. your just trying to make a wrongful assumption he did so to make your you BS sound beleavable

Pfft. You don't know what you're talking about. If you want to debate something, at least be knowledgeable about it.
 
They didn't have to drop them. They priced them out. The old business model was that, as an example, an insurance company would come out with The Sunshine Policy. They'd enroll (example) 100,000 people in that policy and then close it to enrollment. Remember, those 100,000 were all healthy people because they wouldn't insure them any other way. Even high blood pressure would exclude. All young. All healthy. As time passed? Those 100,000 began submitting claims. And the insurance company would adjust their yearly premiums to reflect the change from "all healthy" to "not so healthy." As more time passed, they got even unhealthier. Yearly premiums kept rising on these 100,000. The healthy ones? They shopped for "new" insurance. (Back to the "everybody's healthy mode.) So healthy people cancelled their Sunshine Policies and got new ones. That left sicker and sicker people in the Sunshine Policy, and their rates continued to climb.

I was uninsurable eventually, and I became one of those "unhealthy Sunshine Policy holders." I couldn't change policies. Before I finally went into the Illinois ICHIP health insurance program (subsidized), I was paying American Family Insurance $850 a month for my $5,200 deductible insurance policy. How many people can afford that? But since I had assets to protect? I HAD to afford it.

That's how insurance companies got rid of their sickest policy holders. They priced them out.

so why should the responsible healthy young individuals have to pay for the poor life style choices of the fat asses with health dieses and diabetes or the smoker with emphysema and lung cancer
 
Nope but the insurance companies did, when they dumped your sorry ass because they found out that at age 15 you got special medication for your zits and that may be connected to your leukaemia now, and hence it was a pre-existing condition and they wont cover that.

That's more correct than perhaps you know.

When one would fill out an insurance company questionnaire, it wasn't unusual for the insurance agent, who is paid a commission on your policy, to make light of something he KNEW would get you declined. They'd say something like, "Well, that was so long ago, you don't have to mention it." And people believed it. Maybe they thought they were getting something OVER on the insurance companies...or they really didn't think the fact they had a heart attack ten years ago made any difference.

Insurance companies very often didn't do a very thorough job AT ALL of underwriting policies at the time of purchase. By underwriting, I mean checking with all of your doctors and actually LOOKING AT your health history. So it was very possible they'd issue a policy and not KNOW you'd had that heart attack. And there YOU are, fat-dumb-happy thinking, "I'm covered!!"

And then you have a heart attack. And THEN THEN the insurance company is looking at a $200,000 claim or more. So guess what?? They do a complete forensic check of the application to make sure you included your now-known history on it. And when they find you didn't mention it? They don't pay the claim. They declare the policy null-and-void and, if you're LUCKY, they'll return all your premiums that you've paid.
 
Pfft. You don't know what you're talking about. If you want to debate something, at least be knowledgeable about it.

Maggie it is you who wants to assume something that wasn't stated you want to assume his 4,500 out of pocket included his monthly premium

Your monthly premiums never factor into your deductible or your out-of-pocket maximum. You can lower your premium rates by increasing your deductible, coinsurance and / or out-of-pocket maximum amounts.

Read more: What Does Out-of-Pocket Maximum Mean With Insurance? | eHow
 
so why should the responsible healthy young individuals have to pay for the poor life style choices of the fat asses with health dieses and diabetes or the smoker with emphysema and lung cancer

Do you have car insurance? Why should you have to pay for the drunk drivers they insure? Do you have home insurance? Why should you have to pay for the guy whose house burned down last month? Or the tornado alley destruction that happens in Oklahoma?

That's the definition of insurance. The risk is spread around.
 
Maggie it is you who wants to assume something that wasn't stated you want to assume his 4,500 out of pocket included his monthly premium



Read more: What Does Out-of-Pocket Maximum Mean With Insurance? | eHow

Oh, and you can't read either. No, I said his "out of pocket" did NOT include his premiums. That's why his story is useless as an AHA bash. If his premiums the old way were $25,000 a year and his out of pocket was $4,500, then if his out of pocket is $6,500! under the AHA, but his premiums are only $18,000 . . . well, which bill would YOU rather pay?

Edit: Just looked up the best AHA policy one can buy: for a 45-year-old non-smoking male, the monthly premium is only $416 a month. I'll bet his health insurance premium on the policy he's lost was three or four times that. https://retailweb.hcsc.net/retailshoppingcart/IL/plans?source=ILGA803940&b=0
 
Last edited:
so why should the responsible healthy young individuals have to pay for the poor life style choices of the fat asses with health dieses and diabetes or the smoker with emphysema and lung cancer

Because us 'older' folks brought you 'young individuals' into this world. We wiped your nose and butt, we toiled to educate you, clothed you, fed you. Now it's your turn. Pay for our lives of excess, work to cover our expensive insurance to a point...then pay for our Medicare.

BTW, we will also be looking for our Social Security checks too...thinkin' now how do you have time to be on DP right now. GET BACK IN FRONT OF THE PLOW!
 
Oh, and you can't read either. No, I said his "out of pocket" did NOT include his premiums. That's why his story is useless as an AHA bash. If his premiums the old way were $25,000 a year and his out of pocket was $4,500, then if his out of pocket is $6,500! under the AHA, but his premiums are only $18,000 . . . well, which bill would YOU rather pay?

and just like I stated his monthly premium would need to be 160 dollars less a month then what he did pay to make up for the 2000 extra he will have to pay in deductibles that you called me out saying I didn't know what I was talking about which you just confirmed I was right. I just broke it down by month 160x12=1920
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom