Obamacare INCREASES Healthcare Insurance Premiums?!

[Ontologuy]

Study: Half who now buy own health plan to get aid

So this article talks about how only half of the people who'll get a healthcare insurance increase under Obamacare will qualify for a tax-break partial offset.

But, is everyone just missing the point?

The reason healthcare "reform" was an issue to begin with is because healthcare insurance today costs too much!

That's the issue for the vast overwhelming majority of Americans, those with employer or personally funded healthcare insurance.

What kind of "reform", I then ask, ends up making healthcare insurance premiums more expensive?!

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

It's as if the insurance companies and the healthcare providers became sacred cows under Obamacare, and the whole idea was to find a way to get all citizens, immigrants, and even illegal aliens to receive healthcare they couldn't afford .. and, it appears, for the rest of America to pay for it for them!

When will someone finally address the fundamental problem with healthcare in America: insurance and healthcare providers are gouging the American public!

Obamacare addressed none of that to any effective degree from the standpoint of Americans' wallets.

Obama should be ashamed of his shoehorned ramrodded socialist agenda!

 

[roughdraft274]

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

Just off the top of my head, there was a part of ObamaCare that makes insurance companies spend at least 80% (I think) on actual healthcare payouts, and if they didn't then they had to send a check to subscribers for what they over paid. Meaning that an insurance company can't gauge prices beyond a certain point just to increase CEO bonuses or marketing dollars. It has to go towards healthcare. Many people actually got rebate checks because of this.

Also, With the creation of the exchanges it makes it very easy to compare health insurance plans and increase competition between the insurance companies. That will reduce some price gauging as well.

As far as actually reducing the cost of healthcare, good luck. If any politician talks about that in any meaningful way we'll have retarded tea partiers talking about death panels.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Study: Half who now buy own health plan to get aid

So this article talks about how only half of the people who'll get a healthcare insurance increase under Obamacare will qualify for a tax-break partial offset.

But, is everyone just missing the point?

The reason healthcare "reform" was an issue to begin with is because healthcare insurance today costs too much!

That's the issue for the vast overwhelming majority of Americans, those with employer or personally funded healthcare insurance.

What kind of "reform", I then ask, ends up making healthcare insurance premiums more expensive?!

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

It's as if the insurance companies and the healthcare providers became sacred cows under Obamacare, and the whole idea was to find a way to get all citizens, immigrants, and even illegal aliens to receive healthcare they couldn't afford .. and, it appears, for the rest of America to pay for it for them!

When will someone finally address the fundamental problem with healthcare in America: insurance and healthcare providers are gouging the American public!

Obamacare addressed none of that to any effective degree from the standpoint of Americans' wallets.

Obama should be ashamed of his shoehorned ramrodded socialist agenda!

You are missing the point. PPACA is about shoring up votes for demorats, by trading other people's money for votes. The demorats want to give you (or at least some of you) more free stuff, while the mean old republicants oppose that use of income redistribution. Those voters that will actually notice that they (via their employers for the most part) will pay more for medical care now have been calculated to be fewer than those voters that will get gov't "help" obtaining medical care for 2% to 4% of their meager AGIs.

 

[Threegoofs]

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

That may be because of what you've been reading.

There are some pretty decent cost controls that are coming as part of the ACA. As noted above, minimizing administrative expenses will help curb premium costs - 80% of your premiums must be paid out in medical bills, or you'll get a rebate from the insurance company. The competition in exchanges certainly should lower costs - insurers will be competing for a larger pool, and they cant knock you out for preexisting conditions, so the way to make money is to enroll more people (as opppsed to now, where you can either enroll more healthy poeple or kick out sick ones).

The cost control measures in the plan include something that started with the stimulus - the electronic medical record. This will go a long, long way to maximizing care and minimizing costs, especially repetitive costs for duplicate tests, etc. The Innovation center for Medicare is already looking to have some good successes, with many plans in the pilot programs being able to cut costs significantly and increase quality of care. The move to ACOs is probably already saving money based upon a focus upon quality instead of quantity.

There could have been a lot more done, but the squealing from Congress would have been too much. Remember the right wingers yelling about the kid in Philly who couldnt get a lung transplant because she didnt qualify? You see that yelling now about the IPAB, which is derided as a 'death panel', but actually is a pretty good way to lower costs while improving quality.

For more, read the New England Journal of Medicine.

MMS: Error

 

[Ontologuy]

That may be because of what you've been reading.

There are some pretty decent cost controls that are coming as part of the ACA. As noted above, minimizing administrative expenses will help curb premium costs - 80% of your premiums must be paid out in medical bills, or you'll get a rebate from the insurance company. The competition in exchanges certainly should lower costs - insurers will be competing for a larger pool, and they cant knock you out for preexisting conditions, so the way to make money is to enroll more people (as opppsed to now, where you can either enroll more healthy poeple or kick out sick ones).

The cost control measures in the plan include something that started with the stimulus - the electronic medical record. This will go a long, long way to maximizing care and minimizing costs, especially repetitive costs for duplicate tests, etc. The Innovation center for Medicare is already looking to have some good successes, with many plans in the pilot programs being able to cut costs significantly and increase quality of care. The move to ACOs is probably already saving money based upon a focus upon quality instead of quantity.

There could have been a lot more done, but the squealing from Congress would have been too much. Remember the right wingers yelling about the kid in Philly who couldnt get a lung transplant because she didnt qualify? You see that yelling now about the IPAB, which is derided as a 'death panel', but actually is a pretty good way to lower costs while improving quality.

For more, read the New England Journal of Medicine.

MMS: Error

If insurance company costs will be lowered, why will the insurance premiums for so many be higher under Obamacare that a tax-break for only some people will merely help, not completely offset the higher premiums?

 

[Threegoofs]

If insurance company costs will be lowered, why will the insurance premiums for so many be higher under Obamacare that a tax-break for only some people will merely help, not completely offset the higher premiums?

If this actually turns out to be true, you really have to look at out of pocket costs. Currently, the plans available for individual insurance are often coupled with ridiculous deductibles - tens of thousands of dollars in some cases. You cant do that anymore. So you'll actually get useful health insurance that you are paying for, instead of crap insurance that you are paying a bit less for.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

If insurance company costs will be lowered, why will the insurance premiums for so many be higher under Obamacare that a tax-break for only some people will merely help, not completely offset the higher premiums?

From article in the OP:
"But they are higher — according to industry and consultants — than what people now typically pay for individual plans, which tend to be bare-bones coverage."

The article you linked to makes it sound like people are buying "bare-bones" plans now. And the comparison is being made between these "bare-bones" plans and plans which cover "prescription drugs, mental health and substance abuse treatment and rehabilitative services".

Istm, that the difference in what is covered may be a contributing factor in the price difference.

What do you think? Do the different coverages have anything to do with the different costs?

 

[Ontologuy]

If this actually turns out to be true, you really have to look at out of pocket costs. Currently, the plans available for individual insurance are often coupled with ridiculous deductibles - tens of thousands of dollars in some cases. You cant do that anymore. So you'll actually get useful health insurance that you are paying for, instead of crap insurance that you are paying a bit less for.

But the article concludes the insurance cost to the consumer will be higher under Obamacare.

Wouldn't they be comparing apples policies to apples policies, not apples policies to cheaper oranges policies?

Or, as Simon W. Moon wonders above, under Obamacare, is a bare-bones huge-deductible healthcare insurance policy no longer legal, thus increasing the premium cost for a "better" policy?

 

[Threegoofs]

But the article concludes the insurance cost to the consumer will be higher under Obamacare.

Wouldn't they be comparing apples policies to apples policies, not apples policies to cheaper oranges policies?

Or, as Simon W. Moon wonders above, under Obamacare, is a bare-bones huge-deductible healthcare insurance policy no longer legal, thus increasing the premium cost for a "better" policy?

Simon and I are essentially saying the same thing. You cant compare apples to apples on average, because before the ACA, some of those apples were rotten apples.

Want an example of high deductible insurance?

High-Deductible Health Plans, Gamble For Some, On The Rise : NPR

Or how about the soon to be illegal crap insurance? This is a very good read if you really are confused on this complicated issue.

Crap health coverage wins a regulatory victory. - Slate Magazine

 

[Ontologuy]

Simon and I are essentially saying the same thing. You cant compare apples to apples on average, because before the ACA, some of those apples were rotten apples.

Want an example of high deductible insurance?

High-Deductible Health Plans, Gamble For Some, On The Rise : NPR

Or how about the soon to be illegal crap insurance? This is a very good read if you really are confused on this complicated issue.

Crap health coverage wins a regulatory victory. - Slate Magazine

Well .. that's quite interesting -- health premiums will go up for so many because, prior to Obamacare, so many who could only afford "crap" insurance had that option available to them, so, since that won't be an option for them anymore under Obamacare, they'll be forced to buy something they can't afford or pay a tax fee, either way increasing their cost of living against their choice.

 

[Threegoofs]

Well .. that's quite interesting -- health premiums will go up for so many because, prior to Obamacare, so many who could only afford "crap" insurance had that option available to them, so, since that won't be an option for them anymore under Obamacare, they'll be forced to buy something they can't afford or pay a tax fee, either way increasing their cost of living against their choice.

Its more like the government regulating a grocery store and forcing grocers to sell apples without human excrement inside them. Then some people will whine and complain about the cost of apples going up. Or having scrubbers put on coal plants and people complaining about the cost of electricity rising.

I fully expect to see this type of whining surrounding the ACA for years. No matter what happens in the health care market, any change will be labeled as 'bad' by some and the ACA will be blamed.

 

[Ontologuy]

Its more like the government regulating a grocery store and forcing grocers to sell apples without human excrement inside them. Then some people will whine and complain about the cost of apples going up. Or having scrubbers put on coal plants and people complaining about the cost of electricity rising.

I fully expect to see this type of whining surrounding the ACA for years. No matter what happens in the health care market, any change will be labeled as 'bad' by some and the ACA will be blamed.

I understand the desire for "better" to exist.

But, sometimes that's impractical.

So-called "crap" health insurance policies really aren't that bad to be accurately compared to ****-filled apples.

They function to protect the policy holder against long-term catastrophic illness/injury, at a price the policy holder can actually afford.

They may not provide prophylactic care and may come with huge deductibles for standard non-life-threatening-situation procedures, but the "non-crap" alternative may not be something the consumer can really afford or wants to pay for medical-insurance wise, preferring instead to practice prophylaxis in their own way or not at all.

Obamacare will remove individual options, force degrees of standardization, and at the price of the the cost-of-living of the consumer.

In the stuggle to balance liberty and justice, many see this as erring on the side of justice at the expense of liberty, not achieving the desired balance of these yin-yang complements.

 

[Greenbeard]

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

Some of the highlights are flagged here: What Are the Provisions in the New Law for Containing Costs and How Effective Will They Be?

 

[Arbo]

What kind of "reform", I then ask, ends up making healthcare insurance premiums more expensive?!

One that involves government intervention in the marketplace.

edit: after reading whole thread, simply amazing that some people still fall for the BS that costs will go down. What a freaking dream land they live in.

 

[274ina]

Insurance will oNLY cost 4-8% of your pay. 2% in none expanded medicaid states, FREE in expanded madicaid states.

THE TOTAL BILL DOES NOT MATTER TO ANY OF US.

So all your arguments about costs going up DONT MATTER.

Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Well, they will matter to the rich that dont get any subsidy, but we care about THEM as much as they care about us!

I cant wait to tell all those rich people I get the same insurance they do for $30 month! and they will pay $1000 month for! LMAO!!!!!!

 

[Arbo]

THE TOTAL BILL DOES NOT MATTER TO ANY OF US.

^^^ the best way to sum up the ignorance of so many people combined with the growing entitlement attitude.

 

[MMC]

One that involves government intervention in the marketplace.

edit: after reading whole thread, simply amazing that some people still fall for the BS that costs will go down. What a freaking dream land they live in.

Which was after Obama admitted he needs the young people to fund his Ponzi scheme. Which now after he gave the breaks to big business and those with over 50 employees. He now knows he has to get up the money anyway he can. In order to keep Obamacare and his future entitlement in effect and around for years to come. All hinges on those young'uns.

 

[274ina]

^^^ the best way to sum up the ignorance of so many people combined with the growing entitlement attitude.

Its paid for by the mega rich via .9% and 3.2% taxes on the 90% of USA wealth they own. Better than the Gillotine any day..........

and believe me, when the rich start paying for HC for 200 million, Costs will be controlled.

Now if we could get them to pay for THIER wars....................ummmmmm

 

[274ina]

Which was after Obama admitted he needs the young people to fund his Ponzi scheme. Which now after he gave the breaks to big business and those with over 50 employees. He now knows he has to get up the money anyway he can. In order to keep Obamacare and his future entitlement in effect and around for years to come. All hinges on those young'uns.

There is no "break" for big business. The people will still be able to get HC at the exchanges and AT LOW COST.

Not 9.5% of pay.

4-8% of pay now.

 

[Arbo]

Its paid for by the mega rich

^^^ the best way to sum up the ignorance of so many people combined with the growing entitlement attitude. Part 2.

 

[The Man]

There is no "break" for big business. The people will still be able to get HC at the exchanges and AT LOW COST.

Not 9.5% of pay.

4-8% of pay now.

You used to say 2% - 4% of pay. Why did you double your estimate?

 

[274ina]

You used to say 2% - 4% of pay. Why did you double your estimate?

For 80% of USA it will be 2-4% of your pay.

The 4-8% is only for the few good jobs left in USA.

and its not an estimate. Its a fact of law.

 

[MMC]

There is no "break" for big business. The people will still be able to get HC at the exchanges and AT LOW COST.

Not 9.5% of pay.

4-8% of pay now.

There is a break for Big Business. Their part of the Obama-bologna wont take affect until next year. Also now Team Obama will give Congress a pass too.

Shame he can't tell the total truth about his Ponzi Scheme.

 

[The Man]

There is a break for Big Business. Their part of the Obama-bologna wont take affect until next year. Also now Team Obama will give Congress a pass too.

Shame he can't tell the total truth about his Ponzi Scheme.

The fact that congress is exempt from Obamacare is the most unsettling thing about it. If one didn't already know that Obamacare is going to be a disaster, congress exempting themselves from their very own law is a dead giveaway. They're not exempting themselves from it because it's good, lest anyone think otherwise.

 

[Jerry]

Study: Half who now buy own health plan to get aid

So this article talks about how only half of the people who'll get a healthcare insurance increase under Obamacare will qualify for a tax-break partial offset.

But, is everyone just missing the point?

The reason healthcare "reform" was an issue to begin with is because healthcare insurance today costs too much!

That's the issue for the vast overwhelming majority of Americans, those with employer or personally funded healthcare insurance.

What kind of "reform", I then ask, ends up making healthcare insurance premiums more expensive?!

Indeed, I don't recall any addressing in all of the Obamacare politicking anything to do with directly addressing, not only the outrageous cost of healthcare insurance premiums, but the cost of the medical care itself.

It's as if the insurance companies and the healthcare providers became sacred cows under Obamacare, and the whole idea was to find a way to get all citizens, immigrants, and even illegal aliens to receive healthcare they couldn't afford .. and, it appears, for the rest of America to pay for it for them!

When will someone finally address the fundamental problem with healthcare in America: insurance and healthcare providers are gouging the American public!

Obamacare addressed none of that to any effective degree from the standpoint of Americans' wallets.

Obama should be ashamed of his shoehorned ramrodded socialist agenda!

This is why you weren't supposed to elect him. This is why you're not supposed to use a government program to reform healthcare. To late now. You made your bed and I'm happy to see you sleep in it. Enjoy your new premiums.