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Obama wins 2009 Nobel Peace Prize

Scorpion89 said:
Really so why didn't we just tell the rest of the World to bugger off at the ned of the Gulf War 1 and just march in and take over the Oil Fields and remove Saddam at that time.

The neocons had not yet come to power, and I don't think we were prepared to tell the rest of the world to go to hell.

Next question you do have actually source that the Saudi Govn and the King wants the US Military to close and leave the Kingdom.
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"But in recent years, U.S. domination of the region--and especially its military presence--has increasingly enflamed anti-U.S. sentiments in Saudi Arabia and intensified deep stresses within Saudi society."
RW ONLINE: U.S. and Saudi Arabia: Troubles in a Toxic Relationship

2003
"On April 29, Donald Rumsfeld announced that he would be withdrawing US troops from the country stating that the Iraq War no longer required the support. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz had earlier said that the continuing US presence in the kingdom was putting American lives in danger. The announcement came one day after the Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) was shifted from Prince Sultan Air Base to Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar."
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_Saudi_Arabia]United States withdrawal from Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Will have to answer you later reefedjib!
 
Catawba said:
"But in recent years, U.S. domination of the region--and especially its military presence--has increasingly enflamed anti-U.S. sentiments in Saudi Arabia and intensified deep stresses within Saudi society."
RW ONLINE: U.S. and Saudi Arabia: Troubles in a Toxic Relationship

2003
"On April 29, Donald Rumsfeld announced that he would be withdrawing US troops from the country stating that the Iraq War no longer required the support. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz had earlier said that the continuing US presence in the kingdom was putting American lives in danger. The announcement came one day after the Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) was shifted from Prince Sultan Air Base to Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar."
United States withdrawal from Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Hmm so let me see you still haven't shown anything from the Saudi Govn. or the King oh and for the record we still have allot of troops in the Kingdom FYI two F-15 Squadrons are going to be on a rotating deployment starting in Dec.

Now back to the Oil thing hmmm really who was the Sect. of Def under Mr. H Bush huh come on it's not that hard. Ypou really think if we wanted the Oil Fields that anyone were going to stop us from 1) Marching into Iraq 2) Remove Saddam from power
 
yaktrappers said:
Who really cares. Just takes the Ideals of the Nobel Peace Prize down a notch in the eyes of the free world. 12 days in office, 12 days is when he was voted to be nominated. A trajedy. It will pass though.:thumbdown
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It really does not matter how long he was in office as that has nothing to do with it.
 
Fiddytree said:
If you want that, subscribe to the Oprah Book Club.
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I have usually read most of the books long before she comes out with her newest one. :2razz:
 
EgoffTib said:
No, just not a fan of preemptive awards. Do we give out preemptive diplomas and degrees? Do I get my Masters for saying that I plan on working really hard and learning a lot of stuff in the future?
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EgoffTib said:
...And I disagree with using an award to encourage. Awards are given for recognition, not for "hope" and idealism. Agree to disagree, I guess.
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ugh, what is this obsession with merit? it's very disturbing.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4asbIfaSZ7k"]YouTube - Big Pink Loser[/ame]

anyone? :)
 
repeter said:
For most people, being "obsessed" with actually doing something for an award is a good thing.
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Merit-based awards lead to dissatisfaction, self-loathing, unnecessary antagonism among peers, etc.
 
emdash said:
Merit-based awards lead to dissatisfaction, self-loathing, unnecessary antagonism among peers, etc.
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And the alternative is to reward people for thinking of good ideas and not implementing them? The current system is the lesser of two evils, and if people are too childish to stop whining and start competing, then they quite frankly, dont't deserve the job/position they occupy.

And the only people who really shouldn't want awards based on merit are the people who can never win anything through merit.
 
repeater said:
And the alternative is to reward people for thinking of good ideas and not implementing them? The current system is the lesser of two evils, and if people are too childish to stop whining and start competing, then they quite frankly, dont't deserve the job/position they occupy.

And the only people who really shouldn't want awards based on merit are the people who can never win anything through merit.
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or exceptionally ridiculous and biased judging.
 
Catawba said:
If you can justify death of innocent people for oil then I can't think of anything else for us to discuss.
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Oh, now you say innocent people. You didn't specify that before. My take is that it is moral to fight a war for oil. Oil is a strategic resource and in our strategic interest. When fighting a war, people die. Some of those people are innocent. We are not engaged in indiscriment killing of innocent people. The enemy however is.
 
Scorpion89 said:
Hmm so let me see you still haven't shown anything from the Saudi Govn. or the King oh and for the record we still have allot of troops in the Kingdom FYI two F-15 Squadrons are going to be on a rotating deployment starting in Dec.

You don't trust Rumsfeld huh? Well I can't blame you there.

Now back to the Oil thing hmmm really who was the Sect. of Def under Mr. H Bush huh come on it's not that hard.

Do you mean Gates, the guy they put in when they asked the neocon to step down?

Ypou really think if we wanted the Oil Fields that anyone were going to stop us from 1) Marching into Iraq 2) Remove Saddam from power
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It was never about taking the oil fields. The whole world would have come down on us for that. It was about setting up pro-west governments in ME countries that had no defense against our invasion and occupation, all in the name of "Democracy!"

Many (even in this thread) have already figured this out - "Oil is a strategic interest. We are fighting wars to secure it." - Reefedjib
 
reefedjib said:
Oh, now you say innocent people. You didn't specify that before. My take is that it is moral to fight a war for oil. Oil is a strategic resource and in our strategic interest. When fighting a war, people die. Some of those people are innocent. We are not engaged in indiscriment killing of innocent people. The enemy however is.
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We've killed more innocent people then they have and we have done it for oil. IMO, that puts us on a lower moral plane than those who kill to defend their people and their lands.
 
Catawba said:
We've killed more innocent people then they have and we have done it for oil. IMO, that puts us on a lower moral plane than those who kill to defend their people and their lands.
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You have evidence for this claim?
 
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Metternich said:
You may say that now, but how do you act at the gas-station?

"Fill'er up!"
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If everyone had as small an energy dependent footprint as I did, we would not need any foreign oil. I've done my part, its up to the rest of you now.
 
reefedjib said:
You have evidence for this accusation?
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This is what brought about the 9/11 attack.

"(UNICEF) report in 1999 concluded that half a million Iraqi children had died in the previous eight years because of the sanctions. Columbia University professor Richard Garfield, an epidemiologist and an expert on the effects of sanctions, estimated in 2003 that the sanctions had resulted in infant and young-child fatalities numbering between 343,900 and 529,000."
Iraqi Sanctions and American Intentions: Blameless Carnage? Part 1


And this is what has increased the number of terrorists world wide!

As of January 1st 2008, the IBC total for violent civilian deaths to the end of 2007 is 81,174–88,585.
Civilian deaths from violence in 2007 :: Iraq Body Count
 
Catawba said:
This is what brought about the 9/11 attack.

"(UNICEF) report in 1999 concluded that half a million Iraqi children had died in the previous eight years because of the sanctions. Columbia University professor Richard Garfield, an epidemiologist and an expert on the effects of sanctions, estimated in 2003 that the sanctions had resulted in infant and young-child fatalities numbering between 343,900 and 529,000."
Iraqi Sanctions and American Intentions: Blameless Carnage? Part 1
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There were food programs in place that were subverted by Saddam into military spending. The sanctions did not kill those children, Saddam did.


Catawba said:
And this is what has increased the number of terrorists world wide!

As of January 1st 2008, the IBC total for violent civilian deaths to the end of 2007 is 81,174–88,585.
Civilian deaths from violence in 2007 :: Iraq Body Count
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The huge majority of those deaths were caused by the insurgents and terrorists, not the US military.

Please try again.
 
reefedjib said:
There were food programs in place that were subverted by Saddam into military spending. The sanctions did not kill those children, Saddam did.

Our knowingly duel use targeting of electric plants and water treatment plants followed by the ten years of sanctions where not even emergency water pumps were allowed in to get clean water to people and caused the death of 100,000 and doubled the infant mortality rate.

We knowing brought that about, which makes us responsible.

The huge majority of those deaths were caused by the insurgents and terrorists, not the US military.
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Brought about by our attack and occupation. There were no terrorists or insurgents in Iraq before we went to war against the Iraqis.
 
Catawba said:
Brought about by our attack and occupation. There were no terrorists or insurgents in Iraq before we went to war against the Iraqis.
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That's a feature and not a bug. It was a great loss to the terrorists. Their behavior and their defeat has undermined their ideology.

The insurgents were Sunnis and were complicit in the brutal dominion over the Shia before we arrived. We saved countless lives and freed a people.
 
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