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Obama wants old people to die

joko104

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If a hospital treats a medicare patient more than once a month, the hospital is fined. While demanding hospitals not treat people on medicare will save federal money, it also is a way of removing old and sick people by medicare by killing them off.

They specifically don't want people with heart failure and pneumonia to return for a month. This will turn away about 15% of current medicare patients.
 

tacomancer

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....

Its a fine for reoccuring issues that are prevantable by good medical practices.

Like not letting your patient get an infection which makes him have to come back.

How to Save a Bundle on Hospital Readmissions | Managed Care Magazine Online

Its an older article, but it outlines the idea exactly.

While Congress looks to wring billions of dollars out of the nation’s health care system, America’s health insurers believe billions may be saved simply by improving hospital discharges so that patients do not return.

Some health plans have been working on this for a while, but the idea got a big boost this spring when President Obama called out avoidable readmissions as a target for health reform.

Hospitals that have high rates of readmission should be paid less if patients return within 30 days of a discharge, he said, and the administration believes this policy can save Medicare $26 billion over 10 years.

Bold added, basically, medicare is telling the hospitals that it won't pay for their mistakes.
 

sharon

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joko104

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Yes, delaying patients being allowed to return and instead to die will save a lot of money and will make case management easier. They just have to stamp "deceased" on the file. How much time and money does that take compared to follow-up visits?
 

tacomancer

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Yes, delaying patients being allowed to return and instead to die will save a lot of money and will make case management easier. They just have to stamp "deceased" on the file. How much time and money does that take compared to follow-up visits?

The penalties will force the hospitals to improve their practices. Saving more money and reducing medical issues over all.

Please provide a quote in the law or in analysis that allows for treatments to be delayed.
 

sharon

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The penalties will force the hospitals to improve their practices. Saving more money and reducing medical issues over all.

Please provide a quote in the law or in analysis that allows for treatments to be delayed.

You won't get anywhere being rational or factual.........
 

Klown

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If a hospital treats a medicare patient more than once a month, the hospital is fined. While demanding hospitals not treat people on medicare will save federal money, it also is a way of removing old and sick people by medicare by killing them off.

They specifically don't want people with heart failure and pneumonia to return for a month. This will turn away about 15% of current medicare patients.

are you serious?

I also note that the US is perhaps the only nation on the planet to make the Hypocratic Oath optional for new medical practitioners.

(apparently the "do no harm" statement was not in the best interests of corporate profits and CEO bonuses)
 

VanceMack

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You guys are just seeing the tip of the iceberg. if you knew how much money was spent on chronic mental health patient admissions in this country it would make your heads pop. For many it is a revolving door. For many, multiple inpatient stays (18-20 inpatient stays a year) because people are sad, bored, lonely, fight or breakup with their equally dysfunctional partner, get in a fight with their mother or father because they dare suggest they actually get up and get out of the house and DO something with their lives...etc), 3 days to up to a month at a time at an approximate cost of 2500 a night (not counting the admissions cost including ER visits, evaluations, labs, etc) and then mandated follow on costs.

Add to that the increased prevalence and cost of disability diagnosis impacting Medicaid and Social Security costs merely to sustain individuals, and we dont even want to LOOK at the future VA care costs...but I dont know of too many VA hospital psych wards that ARENT on 24/7 divert...

Medical re admissions can occur for any number of reasons. Patients often (shocking concept...but get ready for it) sometimes actually dont take care of themselves or follow discharge orders. Sometimes infections occur that you just cant control. Penalizing a hospital for negligent care is one thing.

Some figures...pictures dont really tell the story.
Hospitalizations for Mental Health and Substance Abuse Disorders: Costs, Length of Stay, Patient Mix, and Payor Mix | Piper Report
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statis...tionalHealthExpendData/downloads/proj2010.pdf
http://www.macmhb.org/AEG_Report/AEG_MACMHB Final 2Page Summary.pdf
 

274ina

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No its a way to end "eat what you kill" billing.

And its so they clean up the bug infested hospitals.

Time to pay them for results, not just because they looked at someone.
 

specklebang

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Damn good idea IMHO. If they are old, haven't made any money, haven't got any insurance and are constantly using resources, let them go in peace.

BTW I'm 69 and my Father is 100. So this affects us as well.
 

Neomalthusian

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If a hospital treats a medicare patient more than once a month, the hospital is fined.

What's a "medicare patient?" Maybe the hospital should just not bill Medicare more than once a month, and bill the patient instead. Seniors overutilize medical care.

If Obama "wants old people to die," so to speak, it means he might actually have a cost-conscious bone somewhere in his body, which is a point in his favor. So far I've assumed based on observations that he does not in reality support policies that gut-check our biggest funding problems.

The penalties will force the hospitals to improve their practices. Saving more money and reducing medical issues over all.

Mm, no, that's really not the point. Penalties and other bureaucratic regulations like this don't in and of themselves improve any medical care, but that doesn't matter, because the critical issue here is that Medicare is hemorrhaging money. The program is a national funding emergency. No program needs cuts worse than Medicare.
 
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kerussll

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If a hospital treats a medicare patient more than once a month, the hospital is fined. While demanding hospitals not treat people on medicare will save federal money, it also is a way of removing old and sick people by medicare by killing them off.

They specifically don't want people with heart failure and pneumonia to return for a month. This will turn away about 15% of current medicare patients.

Can you post a direct quote from the healthcare law that says this? Not that I don't believe you, but there is so much lying going on coming from both sides that I just don't believe anything I read anymore.
 

missypea

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Can you post a direct quote from the healthcare law that says this? Not that I don't believe you, but there is so much lying going on coming from both sides that I just don't believe anything I read anymore.

Joko's framed his statement to get the biggest bang for his buck.

I can do it too :)

In an effort to expand on quality patient care, ensure patients aren't released from hospitals before they should and by focusing on preventive follow-up measures, CMS will penalize hospitals for excessive readmission rates.

From what I understand, CMS is beginning its focus with long term facilities, nursing homes.....they're focusing on preventive measures including curbing the abuse of elderly patients.

The first 24 hours of an inpatient stay are usually where the highest dollars are. Many insurance companies, not just CMS, will deny payment due to readmission of a patient. After an appeals process sometimes the hospital gets the money and sometimes it doesn't.
 

kerussll

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Joko's framed his statement to get the biggest bang for his buck.

I can do it too :)

In an effort to expand on quality patient care, ensure patients aren't released from hospitals before they should and by focusing on preventive follow-up measures, CMS will penalize hospitals for excessive readmission rates.

From what I understand, CMS is beginning its focus with long term facilities, nursing homes.....they're focusing on preventive measures including curbing the abuse of elderly patients.

The first 24 hours of an inpatient stay are usually where the highest dollars are. Many insurance companies, not just CMS, will deny payment due to readmission of a patient. After an appeals process sometimes the hospital gets the money and sometimes it doesn't.

Hehe yes, thank you. Sounds like a totally different story there. I think it's probably some combination or trying to save money, and trying to get our medicare patients better care. I work in a hospital and I've seen recent changes to medicare reimbursements. We call them "never" events, and now they cost us money. Hospitals are no longer reimbursed for the care of something that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Falls, bed sores, hospital acquired pneumonia, central line infections, UTI's caused from catheters. I've seen us ramp up our efforts to prevent these things because a fire has been lit under the administration's butts. I think this is a great idea. I think there should be some penalty for hospitals that constantly send people home early to just be readmitted later, because that does happen. Of course there will be cases where readmission couldn't have been predicted, but so is the case for any of these things.
 
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johnny_rebson

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That's why he passed ObamaCare.

Obama wants those death panels he created to kill off the old people since seniors are now voting for Republicans instead of Democrats.
 

sharon

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That's why he passed ObamaCare.

Obama wants those death panels he created to kill off the old people since seniors are now voting for Republicans instead of Democrats.

"Death Panels" is the invention of that nincompoop Palin. There's no such thing.

I don't know why that Caribou Barbie never heard of case mgmt or peer review... but evidently its another area where she is dumb as a brick.
 

iguanaman

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If a hospital treats a medicare patient more than once a month, the hospital is fined. While demanding hospitals not treat people on medicare will save federal money, it also is a way of removing old and sick people by medicare by killing them off.

They specifically don't want people with heart failure and pneumonia to return for a month. This will turn away about 15% of current medicare patients.

That fine is to discourage hospitals from the practice of giving Medicare patients the "bum's rush" out the door only to have them come back worse a week later. It makes sense to me.. It does not "turn away" anybody, that's illegal.
What right wing wacko site did you find this at by the way? Afraid a link might get you busted?
 
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iguanaman

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Can you post a direct quote from the healthcare law that says this? Not that I don't believe you, but there is so much lying going on coming from both sides that I just don't believe anything I read anymore.

Yuo should know it's just right wing garbage by the mention of "turning people away". That is clearly illegal and only partisan fools would even say such a stupid thing.
 

Arbo

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Bold added, basically, medicare is telling the hospitals that it won't pay for their mistakes.

It is also telling them it won't pay for people that have a lot of issues that return within a month. So they will get turned away. Not a move in the right direction.
 

sharon

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It is also telling them it won't pay for people that have a lot of issues that return within a month. So they will get turned away. Not a move in the right direction.

Try reading the thread............
 

iguanaman

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It is also telling them it won't pay for people that have a lot of issues that return within a month. So they will get turned away. Not a move in the right direction.

Only in a rightwing wacko mind. Turning away sick people is illegal in the real world.
 

tacomancer

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It is also telling them it won't pay for people that have a lot of issues that return within a month. So they will get turned away. Not a move in the right direction.

Only if the hospital if the issue was preventable. That is the key word.
 
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