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Obama to invest $2 billion in solar power

Orion

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CBC News - World - Obama announces $2B for solar power

The U.S. government is handing out nearly $2 billion US for new solar plants that President Barack Obama says will create thousands of jobs and increase the use of renewable energy sources.

Obama announced the initiative in his weekly radio and online address Saturday, saying the money is part of his plan to bring new industries to the U.S.

"We're going to keep competing aggressively to make sure the jobs and industries of the future are taking root right here in America," Obama said.

The two companies that will receive the money from the president's $862-billion economic stimulus are: Abengoa Solar, which will build one of the world's largest solar plants in Arizona, creating 1,600 construction jobs; and Abound Solar Manufacturing, which is building plants in Colorado and Indiana.

The Obama administration says those projects will create more than 2,000 construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs.

Obama's announcement came a day after the U.S. Labor Department reported that employers slashed payrolls last month for the first time in six months, driven by the expected end of 225,000 temporary census jobs. Meanwhile, private-sector hiring rose by 83,000 workers.
Finally, some forward thinking. I don't think anyone is suggesting that solar polar can replace fossil fuels, but it can still be an effective supplement. And in a country that is apparently debating the use of foreign oil and offshore drilling, it makes sense to at least start the renewable energy process.

Also, the best way to conduct forward research is to be actively using solar.
 

obvious Child

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$2 billion is chump change.

A better idea would be a 30 year tax break for all solar investment. With that kind of time line, investors will pour in. Who the hell is going to invest when the tax incentives are just 5 years?
 

apdst

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I wonder if Obama has taken into account the jobs that he will kill in the process. There's no way that the solar panel industry is going to create as many jobs as the oil and gas industry, especially, since most of the solar panels will probably be made overseas.

And, that's only the half of it: where's the money going to come from?

The best thing to do, would be to repair the economy, then try to encourage private industry to fire up the solar panel business. It costs $20 thousand+ to install a solar system in a home. Who the hell has that kind of cash lieing around?
 

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CBC News - World - Obama announces $2B for solar power



Finally, some forward thinking. I don't think anyone is suggesting that solar polar can replace fossil fuels, but it can still be an effective supplement. And in a country that is apparently debating the use of foreign oil and offshore drilling, it makes sense to at least start the renewable energy process.

Also, the best way to conduct forward research is to be actively using solar.
I support it - I have no problem with this.

As many of us commented in another thread it's foolish to say "we'll stop using ___" without having an adequate alternative means in place and in use, first.
 
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WOW!!! 2 BILLION IS INDEED CHUMP CHANGE !!! Obama should be able to pass the bill to BP for this after the clean up of the damages done to the Gulf of Mexico is accomplished !!!
GREENER, CLEANER, ENERGY IS LONG OVER DUE and America could be among the Leaders to New Energy and not a 20 Century Followers with a Heavy Addiction to Foreign Oil ..
It is time to Help lead the World to the 21 Century and Clean Energy Now and not Tomorrow!!!

The next generation will be forever grateful to the innovators of this GREEN MOVEMENT !!!
 
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winston53660

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I wonder if Obama has taken into account the jobs that he will kill in the process. There's no way that the solar panel industry is going to create as many jobs as the oil and gas industry, especially, since most of the solar panels will probably be made overseas.
If these technologies are going to be developed overseas obviously private industry has failed us in keeping the USA as the world's leader.
 

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Why is 2B chump change? (is this being said in a good or bad way).

If it will cost 2B to get this going - then it costs 2B. :shrug: sometimes the amount of money thrown at a problem is actually legitimate and within measurable bounds.
 

apdst

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If these technologies are going to be developed overseas obviously private industry has failed us in keeping the USA as the world's leader.
If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market. Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?

Why would anyone spend their money on an energy system that isn't cost effective?

Why would the government spend billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on an energy source that isn't cost effective?

There are really only two answers: the intentional harming of the country, or stupidity.
 

winston53660

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If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market. Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?

Why would anyone spend their money on an energy system that isn't cost effective?

Why would the government spend billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on an energy source that isn't cost effective?

There are really only two answers: the intentional harming of the country, or stupidity.
Fine let the Chinese bring it to market. And they will.
 

apdst

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WOW!!! 2 BILLION IS INDEED CHUMP CHANGE !!! Obama should be able to pass the bill to BP for this after the clean up of the damages done to the Gulf of Mexico is accomplished !!!
GREENER, CLEANER, ENERGY IS LONG OVER DUE and America could be among the Leaders to New Energy and not a 20 Century Followers with a Heavy Addiction to Foreign Oil ..
It is time to Help lead the World to the 21 Century and Clean Energy Now and not Tomorrow!!!
Well, thank God we live in a country where we have liberties that prevent a president from doing **** like that.

If clean energy were all that, it would already have hit the market.

The next generation will be forever grateful to the innovators of this GREEN MOVEMENT !!!
Yeah, the enxt generation will be eternally greatful that they had to read Marx by candle light. The green movement is going to ruin the quality of life for the next several generations.
 

apdst

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Fine let the Chinese bring it to market. And they will.
They're going to be building the panels, anway, because union workers in America won't work for less than 100 grand a year.

But, in case you haven't noticed...there is no real market.
 

winston53660

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They're going to be building the panels, anway, because union workers in America won't work for less than 100 grand a year.
And their engineers are going to be developing better and better products in increasing numbers.


But, in case you haven't noticed...there is no real market.

It seems like to me people are looking for it every day. And the people that get the infrastructure are going to reap rewards on the investment.
 

apdst

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And their engineers are going to be developing better and better products in increasing numbers.
They, or anyone else, can develop what they want, but as long as there's no market, they won't be selling their product.





It seems like to me people are looking for it every day. And the people that get the infrastructure are going to reap rewards on the investment.
Whose looking for it, everyday? The people that have bought into the treehugger bull**** that there actually other viable energy sources, that are just lieing dormant and waiting for someone to crank them up? Shell and BP have spent billions on wind/solar/water and couldn't create a viable source of alternative energy. It only makes sense that if they did find something, they would be all over it.

Yeah, I know, everyone thinks the oil companies are just into drilling for oil, because of...whatever. But, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if any one of the oil companies had harnessed the next generation energy source, that they would be marketing the living **** out of it, in an attempt to corner the market. Why is that so hard for some folks to phathom?
 

mbig

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$2 billion is chump change.

A better idea would be a 30 year tax break for all solar investment. With that kind of time line, investors will pour in. Who the hell is going to invest when the tax incentives are just 5 years?
Agreed.
I think you have to add at least a zero/$20 Bil to start really moving the ball in anything but a tiny incremental way.

It was about 20 years ago someone suggested Large Solar plant in the Four Corners area of the Southwest could power the whole country.
Now THAT would be an initiative. Say $50 bil-$100 to subsidize the small extra current cost of solar and really do a Giant building program cutting Fossil Fuel use by a significant percent and helping the balance of payments.. Permanently. And Jobs of course.
Remember JFK (1961) declared we should go to the moon from Scratch in less than a decade? 8 years later, Moon.
We certainly have more know-how in Solar now than we did in Space Travel in 1960.


THIS, more than any policy, Is where I think Obama has failed (and those before him).
NO imagination or courage to REALLY change this countries energy future. And $2 Billion is NOT it.
-
 
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obvious Child

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If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market.
There's this thing called Google. Started by a bunch of nerds. It has the largest search engine market share. You might want to try it one day.

This resurgence could lead to a global solar market worth $70 billion in sales over18.5 GW of installation by 2013, the report forecasts.
Solar Market: Dip in 2009, Rise by 2011

No market you say?

GE Targets The Solar Market And Sales Leader First Solar « TechPulse 360
National Semiconductor and QC Solar Sign Sales Agreement to Manufacture, Market Intelligent PV Electronics | National Semiconductor

Hmm. I guess GE isn't part of the private industry. Hey Apdst, since when was GE an arm of the government?

Same thing for QC and National Semi-Conductor.

No market you say? I guess GE and National Semiconductor aren't big firms. :roll:

Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?
Neither was oil when it started. What's your point? Cost effective now does not mean cost effective never. While you are obviously unaware of the concept of the first mover advantage, usually the firms who get into a new market or industry segment first with good products tend to dominate and reap abnormal profits. Maybe that's why NSC and GE are spending billions? Oh wait. I forgot. You argued that they are actually part of the government since you said "If there was a market, private industry would already be all over." Since GE and NSC are all over it, they can't be part of the private market.

Research before opening your proverbial mouth. It will reduce the frequency of you appearing foolish.

Why would anyone spend their money on an energy system that isn't cost effective?
First-mover advantage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it is cost effective when you get similar subsidies to how coal, nuclear and natural gas get.

Why would the government spend billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on an energy source that isn't cost effective?
For the same reason the government spends billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on other power sources like nuclear.

There are really only two answers: the intentional harming of the country, or stupidity.
The government may be stupid, but they aren't the only ones. *wink*
 

obvious Child

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Not that we really need to know that Apdst is wrong, but here's more information on the solar power market.

First, poly silicate is one of the major ingredients.

Honeywell, a very large American company is expanding production by 5,000 tons to meet South Korean demand.
Honeywell To Help Global Polysilicon Maker Meet Fast-Growing Demand for Solar Panels « Honeywell Now – Keeping you up to date on Honeywell

There was so much global demand that manufacturers went into overdrive and the glut of supply caused a significant decline in prices in 2008.

Polysilicon pricing to begin 'precipitous plunge' in 2009, says iSuppli report - Photovoltaics International

The supply crunch has thrust the polysilicon business -- once the all but exclusive territory of semiconductor makers -- into high gear. Novel financing deals and new partnerships are afoot, with solar-module makers scrambling to secure long-term deals and chemical manufacturers scrambling to boost factory output by 2008 and beyond
Solar-panel makers scramble to lock in polysilicon supplies Special Report - MarketWatch

And Apdst says there's no market. Really.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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If there was a market, private industry would already be all over. Obviously, there's no market. Could that be, because it isn't cost effective?
No, it's more like it's difficult to find venture capital for something which may or may not work.

In other words, in the current climate people are willing to invest in something which will work, but they're very slow to risk money on something which doesn't come with some kind of guarantee.
 

obvious Child

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No, it's more like it's difficult to find venture capital for something which may or may not work.

In other words, in the current climate people are willing to invest in something which will work, but they're very slow to risk money on something which doesn't come with some kind of guarantee.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why companies aren't investing in solar in the US like they are elsewhere. With sketchy, unreliable tax incentives along with subsidies to competing forms of electricity, firms would rather go where the tax incentives are stable and where their competitors aren't feeding at the trough of corporate welfare. We'll make the ingredients for it, but it's largely for export.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why companies aren't investing in solar in the US like they are elsewhere. With sketchy, unreliable tax incentives along with subsidies to competing forms of electricity, firms would rather go where the tax incentives are stable and where their competitors aren't feeding at the trough of corporate welfare. We'll make the ingredients for it, but it's largely for export.
That's currently changing. You'll see it over the next 5 years or so.
 

apdst

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There's this thing called Google. Started by a bunch of nerds. It has the largest search engine market share. You might want to try it one day.



Solar Market: Dip in 2009, Rise by 2011

No market you say?

GE Targets The Solar Market And Sales Leader First Solar « TechPulse 360
National Semiconductor and QC Solar Sign Sales Agreement to Manufacture, Market Intelligent PV Electronics | National Semiconductor

Hmm. I guess GE isn't part of the private industry. Hey Apdst, since when was GE an arm of the government?

Same thing for QC and National Semi-Conductor.

No market you say? I guess GE and National Semiconductor aren't big firms. :roll:



Neither was oil when it started. What's your point? Cost effective now does not mean cost effective never. While you are obviously unaware of the concept of the first mover advantage, usually the firms who get into a new market or industry segment first with good products tend to dominate and reap abnormal profits. Maybe that's why NSC and GE are spending billions? Oh wait. I forgot. You argued that they are actually part of the government since you said "If there was a market, private industry would already be all over." Since GE and NSC are all over it, they can't be part of the private market.

Research before opening your proverbial mouth. It will reduce the frequency of you appearing foolish.



First-mover advantage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it is cost effective when you get similar subsidies to how coal, nuclear and natural gas get.



For the same reason the government spends billions of tax payer dollars and create a situation that would force American citizens to spend more of their hard earned money on other power sources like nuclear.



The government may be stupid, but they aren't the only ones. *wink*
Why hasn't solar power taken over, then? If the market is as strong as you say, we should have decreased our oil usage by at least 15%. What's the deal?

Could it be that the plastic that is used to make the solar panels is a patroleum product?!?

The part that I think most folks don't get, is that when a storm rips through and tears the hell out of your solar power system, the replacement cost is on you. There's no tax credit, no government bailout and the local power company sure as hell isn't going to replace your $20,000 solar system.
 

apdst

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No, it's more like it's difficult to find venture capital for something which may or may not work.

In other words, in the current climate people are willing to invest in something which will work, but they're very slow to risk money on something which doesn't come with some kind of guarantee.
Well, duhhhh!!! It's called security. How long did it take you figure that one out??
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Why hasn't solar power taken over, then? If the market is as strong as you say, we should have decreased our oil usage by at least 15%. What's the deal?
People are still figuring out how to best employ solar power to replace our current energy sources.

Could it be that the plastic that is used to make the solar panels is a patroleum product?!?
No, it's more like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to alternative energy.

The part that I think most folks don't get, is that when a storm rips through and tears the hell out of your solar power system, the replacement cost is on you. There's no tax credit, no government bailout and the local power company sure as hell isn't going to replace your $20,000 solar system.
That's what insurance is for. :lol:
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Well, duhhhh!!! It's called security. How long did it take you figure that one out??
Right, except that when it comes to inventing new stuff to make, or finding new applications for existing stuff, there isn't a whole lot of security. Insecurity is the very nature of research and development work.
 
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