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Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

Obama Tax Supporters=What is more Important to You

  • Saving the tax cuts for yourself (and the rich)

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Sticking it to the rich with a tax hike for everyone

    Votes: 10 90.9%

  • Total voters
    11

Miguel17

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1) Keeping the Bush/Obama tax rates for the "middle class"


2) sticking it to the rich with a tax hike

Thanks to a rare action of decency by the Democrats, this choice is no longer mutually exclusive.
 

Catawba

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the war on poverty wasted billions, spent more than the entire worth of the fortune five hundred, created massive intergenerational dependence and massive numbers of robotic dem voters (which was the purpose al along)

Thanks for the far right view of poverty reduction.
 

Neomalthusian

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Thanks for the far right view of poverty reduction.

A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?
 

Catawba

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A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?

I have no idea what you are talking about. What I see is a working class that has suffered enough to decide there is no longer a reason to continue to allow the continuation of the Bush tax cuts for the rich.
 

Boo Radley

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A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?

The system you describe, free market without any government oversight doesn't exist, and really never did in the modern world. And really can't, because left unfereded, someone wins, and it becomes something else altogether.

Now, we do have a problem with the winners we have today setting the rules, and this stacking the game in their favor. Goevernment is suppose to curtail that a little more than it has been. Because of the money relationship between the haves and politicians, both feeding each other, it is very difficult for government to hold this in check. I think you see this based on your post. What hurts is the middle class, which without the entire game does fall down. With a smaller middle, the illusion of anyoen can be rich becomes harder to swollow. The few exceptions become seen for what they are, exceptions. We need a strong middle class to make the system work.
 

Neomalthusian

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I have no idea what you are talking about. What I see is a working class that has suffered enough to decide there is no longer a reason to continue to allow the continuation of the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

That's because your partisan goggles can't focus on far-sighted objects.

The system you describe, free market without any government oversight doesn't exist,

Well that's not what I described.

Now, we do have a problem with the winners we have today setting the rules, and this stacking the game in their favor.

I would love to sit down with you and Catawba to a game of Monopoly. Hell I'd even supply the scotch and stogies. Because welfare policies are akin to getting a $500 every time you land on a property of someone else who already owns half the board and has, for the most part, already won the game, and what they charge breaks your bank once again. There's no escaping this scenario, so long as you're persuaded to keep playing by the promises of meager handouts/bailouts every time you fall upon bankruptcy. That just prolongs the game that has already, for all real intents and purposes, ended.

Goevernment is suppose to curtail that a little more than it has been. Because of the money relationship between the haves and politicians, both feeding each other, it is very difficult for government to hold this in check. I think you see this based on your post. What hurts is the middle class, which without the entire game does fall down. With a smaller middle, the illusion of anyoen can be rich becomes harder to swollow. The few exceptions become seen for what they are, exceptions. We need a strong middle class to make the system work.

Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.
 
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lpast

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Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.

Thats not what the rich tell us...they tell us we have to cut their taxs so they can create middleclass jobs...you sir live in lalaland like so many other blind partisans....dispute this fact...

In the last 20 yrs the richest americans and corporations have had their tax responsiblity cut fully in half....guys like romney making millions pay less a percentage than people making 300,000...corporations like GE pay zero in taxs.
While the rich enjoyed massive tax cuts and and offshoring most of their money to avoid taxs....they were outsourcing millions of decent paying jobs...putting middle class america OUT OF WORK and not able to pay taxs....your entire post is hyperbole...
 

Neomalthusian

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Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.

Thats not what the rich tell us...they tell us we have to cut their taxs so they can create middleclass jobs...you sir live in lalaland like so many other blind partisans....dispute this fact...

Dispute what fact? I never suggested we should believe whatever bull**** the rich are telling us today. My previous comment stands. A strong middle class doesn't suckle its strength from a strong federal government or from the rich themselves. A strong middle class stands on its own. How can a middle class be considered strong if it utterly relies on something much greater than itself to be sustained? That is the opposite of strong. That is called "dependent."

In the last 20 yrs the richest americans and corporations have had their tax responsiblity cut fully in half....guys like romney making millions pay less a percentage than people making 300,000...corporations like GE pay zero in taxs.
While the rich enjoyed massive tax cuts and and offshoring most of their money to avoid taxs....they were outsourcing millions of decent paying jobs...putting middle class america OUT OF WORK and not able to pay taxs....your entire post is hyperbole...

You're either drunk or you're carelessly misusing the term 'hyperbole.'
 

roughdraft274

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you make lots of assumptions from an obvious position of ignorance. how do you know that another 30-50K in taxes is not going to affect lifestyles.

what makes people making a few hundred K a year any different than people in the upper middle class who are one medical emergency or firing away from being way over extended.

the tax is not based on how much money you have left over but what you take in and if you spend a lot-bought a big house based on the Bush tax rates, have three kids at Amherst or Cornell etc you don't have much extra

People like you think that the "rich" only have the same monthly expenses you do which is idiotic

Ok, if we assume that we are talking about 30,000 dollars being gained from letting the tax cuts for the wealthy expire, thus making the top marginal tax rate go up 4%, and assuming the other tax cuts stay in place, thus making your original taxes for the first 250,000 of earned income the same, you would have to earn 1 million dollars exactly. They'll be alright, lol.
 

Mycroft

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The current tax rates should stay as they are until the federal government proves that they are willing to cut spending significantly.

But, given the Democrat's reluctance to cut any spending...except for the military...I have no hope that we will ever achieve a resolution for our dilemma. At some point our government's financial situation is going to fold like a house of cards.
 

ttwtt78640

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What jobs are the wealthy creating? Could you explain please.

Try this simple experiment: go to a wealthy neighborhood and seek work, now go to a poor neighborhood and seek work. In which neighborhood did you find more work? I tend to get 95% of my work from those in the wealthier neghborhoods, you may have had a different experience; please feel free to share that with us.
 

iguanaman

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Dispute what fact? I never suggested we should believe whatever bull**** the rich are telling us today. My previous comment stands. A strong middle class doesn't suckle its strength from a strong federal government or from the rich themselves. A strong middle class stands on its own. How can a middle class be considered strong if it utterly relies on something much greater than itself to be sustained? That is the opposite of strong. That is called "dependent."



You're either drunk or you're carelessly misusing the term 'hyperbole.'

Our "strong middle calls" has been sacrificed on the altar of the rich becasue it is the rich that "suckle" now. The rich have bought off our politicians and they feed their benefactors on tax cuts, deregulation, and tax breaks for shipping away our jobs. This must stop before the middle class can rebuild itself. and make no mistake we will.
 

iguanaman

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Try this simple experiment: go to a wealthy neighborhood and seek work, now go to a poor neighborhood and seek work. In which neighborhood did you find more work? I tend to get 95% of my work from those in the wealthier neghborhoods, you may have had a different experience; please feel free to share that with us.

Wow what a deep thinker you are. Think about this...the rich spend all they want regardless of tax rates and the extra revenue from theri taxes going back to normal wil get spent too. That is how we grow.
 
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iguanaman

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The current tax rates should stay as they are until the federal government proves that they are willing to cut spending significantly.

But, given the Democrat's reluctance to cut any spending...except for the military...I have no hope that we will ever achieve a resolution for our dilemma. At some point our government's financial situation is going to fold like a house of cards.

Actuallly either the tax rates go back to normal for the top brackets or the sequestration defense cuts will be implemented in full. Your choice.
 

DrM

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Regretably, lobbying is "legal" to give money. The hitch in the get-a-long is that congress is NOT required to accept the funds. Of course, if they refused, Elected representative would change rapidly and, we would finally elect patriots rather than greedy. Realistically, how many of these creeps would still be in Washington if the payoff wasn't available? We would have representation by the people and for the people. Government and voting has become a sham. Money is not everything. . .it's the only thing!!
 
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OhIsee.Then

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Try this simple experiment: go to a wealthy neighborhood and seek work, now go to a poor neighborhood and seek work. In which neighborhood did you find more work? I tend to get 95% of my work from those in the wealthier neghborhoods, you may have had a different experience; please feel free to share that with us.
I have explained before that I have worked with and for nationally known very wealthy CEO. If he needed you, you could receive a decent salary. Not one based on his, but one based on the commodity that you represent. His salary was based on what he could get. For example a CEO can get a portion of the income that is generated by renting back the company logo from a Cayman Island company.
It's also interesting to to be in Sun Valley when the meeting is held there. You get to see the wealthy up close.
 

Paschendale

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Wow what a deep thinker you are. Think about this...the rich spend all they want regardless of tax rates and the extra revenue from theri taxes going back to normal wil get spent too. That is how we grow.

On average, spending stops increasing based on higher income at around $100,000. The rest is generally hoarded, and doesn't go back into the economy. The extra revenue that the upper class obtains beyond that tends to just get shuffled back and forth within that top class, and doesn't pay for making things, building things, paying people's salaries... Nothing. It goes into a black hole and never comes out.
 

ttwtt78640

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I have explained before that I have worked with and for nationally known very wealthy CEO. If he needed you, you could receive a decent salary. Not one based on his, but one based on the commodity that you represent. His salary was based on what he could get. For example a CEO can get a portion of the income that is generated by renting back the company logo from a Cayman Island company.
It's also interesting to to be in Sun Valley when the meeting is held there. You get to see the wealthy up close.

Many different animals may be seen at the zoo, but that was not related to my post either. The rich are not rich because they are stupid, they are CORRECTLY waiting to see if the federal gov't can get its act together, perhaps even pass a "budget". None are likely to expand (hire) in times that the gov't is threatening much higher taxes, stricter "environmental" regulations and mandating ever more expensive medical care insurance benefits. Many see that the federal gov't will soon consume even more than 25% of GDP, and KNOW that they are the ones that will be called upon to pay their "fair share" (i.e. much more) in taxes.
 

ttwtt78640

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On average, spending stops increasing based on higher income at around $100,000. The rest is generally hoarded, and doesn't go back into the economy. The extra revenue that the upper class obtains beyond that tends to just get shuffled back and forth within that top class, and doesn't pay for making things, building things, paying people's salaries... Nothing. It goes into a black hole and never comes out.

Nonsense. Can you back this "fact" up?
 

ttwtt78640

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Wow what a deep thinker you are. Think about this...the rich spend all they want regardless of tax rates and the extra revenue from theri taxes going back to normal wil get spent too. That is how we grow.

Grow what? The economic miracle of taxing "the rich" a bit more will fund the federal gov't (at current spending levels) for about 8 days, creat NO jobs and still leaves 357 more days of 40% federal deficit spending. It fixes nothing, except feeding the federal gov't appetite for more borrowing, spending and taxation.
 

haymarket

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Grow what? The economic miracle of taxing "the rich" a bit more will fund the federal gov't (at current spending levels) for about 8 days, creat NO jobs and still leaves 357 more days of 40% federal deficit spending. It fixes nothing, except feeding the federal gov't appetite for more borrowing, spending and taxation.

So how do you fix it with a guaranteed plan that we all would agree would "work"?
 

Boo Radley

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Well that's not what I described.



I would love to sit down with you and Catawba to a game of Monopoly. Hell I'd even supply the scotch and stogies. Because welfare policies are akin to getting a $500 every time you land on a property of someone else who already owns half the board and has, for the most part, already won the game, and what they charge breaks your bank once again. There's no escaping this scenario, so long as you're persuaded to keep playing by the promises of meager handouts/bailouts every time you fall upon bankruptcy. That just prolongs the game that has already, for all real intents and purposes, ended.



Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.

I win at Monopoly all the time. Better at Scrabble, but anytime you want, we can sit down.

As for a strong middle class, the do need the deck not stacked against them. It is a concern for us as a country that it is shrinking. Government has made policy that largely favors the wealthy and not the working class.
 

ttwtt78640

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So how do you fix it with a guaranteed plan that we all would agree would "work"?

A good start would be to actually cut duplicate/overlapping gov't spending programs. Doing STUPID things, even if "bipartisan", like subsidizing student loan contract interest rates for ONE year, and then raising taxes to "pay for" it is insane. REAL reductions in gov't spending are required, but TARGETTED to specific WASTE, not silly "accross the board" nonsense. Why have things like a NASA art program, cowboy poetry festival or federal gang violence programs? There is no end to the "nice" things that our FEDERAL gov't can do, yet that does NOT make it right. Cutting the entire DOEd would be a great start.
 
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Thunder

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something tells me that if the tax-cuts expire, we will be hearing a lot more whining from the wealthy & their supporters, than from the middle-class.
 
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