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Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

Harshaw

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As it should be. Would you prefer we use all of our oil deposits in the U.S. now and in the future when oil is even more expensive, we'll have to send even more money to foreign countries?

Riiiight. The interest in stopping oil production is to preserve it for later. :rofl:
 

hazlnut

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Until that "green" energy is cheap enough to compete with the supposed "dirty" energy, it will flop, not create a lot of jobs, waste money or some combination of the three.

It's actually getting very close -- solar panel installers are popping up all over the place. I've been cold called by a few wanting to come by and give us estimates.

The Battery model -- a battery that can power your house and never need to recharge -- all these things are just on the horizon.

No wonder all the coal and oil boys are ****ting their pants. Their days of polluting the world are nearing an end.
 

Ockham

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Well... there is an easy way to make alternative energy successful. Make petroleum and coal products expensive as hell. Artificially increase the cost and create a market for alternative energy. The key would be to sustain the fossil fuel costs at a high enough rate to promote alternative investment and development. So $7-$10 a gallon gas, $5-$7 diesel, fuel oil at $12-$15, while increasing coal and industrial coal and power plant costs by about 50%-60% over a period of 8-10 years would do it.
 

Gill

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Well... there is an easy way to make alternative energy successful. Make petroleum and coal products expensive as hell. Artificially increase the cost and create a market for alternative energy. The key would be to sustain the fossil fuel costs at a high enough rate to promote alternative investment and development. So $7-$10 a gallon gas, $5-$7 diesel, fuel oil at $12-$15, while increasing coal and industrial coal and power plant costs by about 50%-60% over a period of 8-10 years would do it.

You're right, except I wouldn't call it "easy". It would also destroy the world's economy and the entire world would have to live like the people in Afghanistan.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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It's actually getting very close -- solar panel installers are popping up all over the place. I've been cold called by a few wanting to come by and give us estimates.

The Battery model -- a battery that can power your house and never need to recharge -- all these things are just on the horizon.

No wonder all the coal and oil boys are ****ting their pants. Their days of polluting the world are nearing an end.

Batteries are still pretty archaic.
Capacitors is where the future should be but we still have to wait.
 

Coronado

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No wonder all the coal and oil boys are ****ting their pants. Their days of polluting the world are nearing an end.
:lamo

Yeah, Shell and Exxon are practically out of business!

:lamo
 

Ockham

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You're right, except I wouldn't call it "easy". It would also destroy the world's economy and the entire world would have to live like the people in Afghanistan.

Right - "easy" as a relative term. It couldn't change over night but I think that's the only way to really kick start alternative energy - other than the way things are going now, which would be to put billions of artificial stimulus to create something no one wants to buy because it's more expensive than fossil fuels. :shrug:

From an investment perspective, Obama's plan here sounds like a loser.
 

Ockham

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:lamo

Yeah, Shell and Exxon are practically out of business!

:lamo

Haz is Bob Hope, Nipsy Russel, Dave Chappell, Mitch Hedberg, & the Daily Show all rolled into one enchilada.
 

Crunch

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How much does that dirty energy pollution cost us each year? Does that get factored into the price of oil/coal?

Just saying, it would be pretty hard for the sewer plant to compete costwise if we could all just **** in the river.

Subsidies for green energy or taxes on fossil fuels will help make them cost competitive.

End of thread.

(except for those that want to poke fun at the OP)
 

Crunch

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But oil will not always be cheap, in fact it will almost certainly get steadily more expensive. Investing in alternative sources of energy today will allow a less painful transition away from oil in the future.



How will we find it if we are unprepared to look for it?

Maybe there will be a 'eureka' moment when someone discovers a brilliant new source of energy nobody else had thought of, and it allows us an easy transition away from oil. But it would be foolish to close our eyes and hope this day will come while we steadily use up the world's natural resources.

There are alternatives out there, but like any nascent technologies they will find it difficult to compete with established technologies in a free market. Thus they must be supported in their development stages.

What you are looking for will be found in a small college laboratory or by some backyard inventor..... no need to throw trillions of scarce tax payer dollars at it.
 

Crunch

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When did I ever say we shouldn't look? In fact, implicit in what I did say is that we SHOULD look.

What I object to is all the flowery hooplah about technology which simply doesn't exist and no one really knows if it CAN exist -- especially when someone is so arrogant as to pin down an exact number of jobs it will create.

And on top of that, to start trying to kill oil before we even know we can get there at all is stupid beyond measure.

It's called Obamanomics, and yes, it's stupid beyond measure.
 

Crunch

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Do you have any specific examples?

Investing in renewable energy sources; wind, solar, wave, tidal, etc, will create jobs, and will generate energy.

Unfortunately none of those technologies are mature nor cost effective so they are not ready to have gobs of money thrown at them, nor will they be ready to be used to create many jobs until they are mature technologies.
 

Crunch

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It's actually getting very close -- solar panel installers are popping up all over the place. I've been cold called by a few wanting to come by and give us estimates.

The Battery model -- a battery that can power your house and never need to recharge -- all these things are just on the horizon.

No wonder all the coal and oil boys are ****ting their pants. Their days of polluting the world are nearing an end.

Let us know when they are viable, competitive products that don't require government subsidies to make then so....... get back to us at least every 10 years so we can have an update, thanx.
 

Crunch

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Well... there is an easy way to make alternative energy successful. Make petroleum and coal products expensive as hell. Artificially increase the cost and create a market for alternative energy. The key would be to sustain the fossil fuel costs at a high enough rate to promote alternative investment and development. So $7-$10 a gallon gas, $5-$7 diesel, fuel oil at $12-$15, while increasing coal and industrial coal and power plant costs by about 50%-60% over a period of 8-10 years would do it.


I got it.... call on me!

What is cap and trade.

Did I win the all expense paid vacation to Tehran?
 

Crunch

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Right - "easy" as a relative term. It couldn't change over night but I think that's the only way to really kick start alternative energy - other than the way things are going now, which would be to put billions of artificial stimulus to create something no one wants to buy because it's more expensive than fossil fuels. :shrug:

From an investment perspective, Obama's plan here sounds like a loser.

Viable alternative energy will come with no help from the government..... with government telling people how and what to do? It will never come.
 

Ockham

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I got it.... call on me!

What is cap and trade.

Did I win the all expense paid vacation to Tehran?


kewpie_doll_big.gif

You won a Kewpie doll. Sorry.
 

apdst

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It's actually getting very close -- solar panel installers are popping up all over the place. I've been cold called by a few wanting to come by and give us estimates.

The Battery model -- a battery that can power your house and never need to recharge -- all these things are just on the horizon.

No wonder all the coal and oil boys are ****ting their pants. Their days of polluting the world are nearing an end.

Too bad so many people are out of work and can't afford to install those systems.

My ole lady is a believer in green energy. She invited some clown over to the house to show us his solar system. She **** a brick, when he told her it was 26 g's. That's when I reminded her that if Obama hadn't put the drilling moratorium in place, we could probably afford it.

Green energy is all fine-n-good, but since Obama has killed the job market, no one can afford to purchase the equipment. Those unintended consiquences are a mother ****er. Tax credits don't mean jack ****, when you don't have a job.
 
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Too bad so many people are out of work and can't afford to install those systems.

My ole lady is a believer in green energy. She invited some clown over to the house to show us his solar system. She **** a brick, when he told her it was 26 g's. That's when I reminded her that if Obama hadn't put the drilling moratorium in place, we could probably afford it.

Green energy is all fine-n-good, but since Obama has killed the job market, no one can afford to purchase the equipment. Those unintended consiquences are a mother ****er. Tax credits don't mean jack ****, when you don't have a job.

26g's........ yeahh.... i think ill stick to paying what i pay now for the bill cause... 26g's is what ill pay in 15years or more for the energy bill.... any ways. if we do get this movement on the way, umm.... what exactly are the type of "jobs" that will be available, what type of requirements are going to be needed? things like that would matter most you know?
 

liblady

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And there is no guarantee that there IS anything with a combination of cheaper, more portable, and more energy-intensive than oil.

so we are supposed to give up?
 

jambalaya

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I don't have a problem with pushing energy issues ahead of us running out of oil. Its an example of what I don't mind the government spending money on. Public transporation is another. I think we missed the boat big time by not investing in large scale public transportation systems and having them in place now instead of facing staggering costs to start now. If we are going to invest in "clean energy" lets not just put money here, there and everywhere. Let's focus on the most promising ideas. Electric cars aren't a bad idea. Electricity can be produced from many, many different fuel sources so it makes sense to take advantage of that. We won't need a huge infrastructure change like with hydrogen fuel cells. I see solar energy as problematic. The infrastructure is very costly relative to the amount of energy produced. Just try a small scale solar energy project for your home. It is not cheap. I wish Republicans and Democrats would be reasonable and get together on practical energy issues divorced from all the global warming hysteria. It just needs to be done.
 

VanceMack

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just for grins...has anyone heard of prgress in the realm of harnessing H3 power? If we are looking for actual viable fuel resources it is going to have to be something that is powerful and relatively safe.

There isnt a one size fits all answer. If they mandated all new homes be built with solar panels...that would help. Utilize wind power and hydrogen where viable. Clean coal and oil shouldnt be abandoned just because the anti fossil fuels set hates it. We should look at ways to improve fuel economy...better mass transit...utilizing electric cars in small communities. LOTS of things working together.
 

Harshaw

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What if a new home builder doesn't WANT solar panels?
 

VanceMack

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What if a new home builder doesn't WANT solar panels?

Frankly I think it should have been a part of building codes since the mid 80s. I think they should have eliminated 110VAC house power where possible. And if people dont WANT solar panels, then there is always candles. We mandate more efficient means of construction all the time. And OK...OK...heres a compromise...no mandating solar panels but higher energy rates or tax credits for those that implement them.
 

winston53660

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Frankly I think it should have been a part of building codes since the mid 80s. I think they should have eliminated 110VAC house power where possible. And if people dont WANT solar panels, then there is always candles. We mandate more efficient means of construction all the time. And OK...OK...heres a compromise...no mandating solar panels but higher energy rates or tax credits for those that implement them.

Wow you almost sound like Jimmy Carter.
 
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