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Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

Chappy

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My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.

Excerpted from “Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs” By Nicholas Johnston, Bloomberg, Aug 16, 2010 12:02 PM PT
[SIZE="+2"]P[/SIZE]resident Barack Obama said government incentives to expand clean-energy industries will help restore jobs, citing a battery maker in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, where he is highlighting the impact of the economic stimulus.

Obama used the example of ZBB Energy Corp., which is using a $1.3 million loan from the legislation to keep 12 workers on staff and eventually hire 80 more as it expands production. …
 

Harry Guerrilla

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My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.
Until that "green" energy is cheap enough to compete with the supposed "dirty" energy, it will flop, not create a lot of jobs, waste money or some combination of the three.
 

Harshaw

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And there is no guarantee that there IS anything with a combination of cheaper, more portable, and more energy-intensive than oil.
 

Coronado

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And there is no guarantee that there IS anything with a combination of cheaper, more portable, and more energy-intensive than oil.
Why would a little thing like that stop the government from throwing trillions of your dollars at it?
 

Harshaw

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Why would a little thing like that stop the government from throwing trillions of your dollars at it?
Of course not. And when Obama says something is going to create jobs, it's going to create jobs. Just like the "stimilus" bill.
 

drz-400

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Until that "green" energy is cheap enough to compete with the supposed "dirty" energy, it will flop, not create a lot of jobs, waste money or some combination of the three.
How much does that dirty energy pollution cost us each year? Does that get factored into the price of oil/coal?

Just saying, it would be pretty hard for the sewer plant to compete costwise if we could all just **** in the river.

Subsidies for green energy or taxes on fossil fuels will help make them cost competitive.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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How much does that dirty energy pollution cost us each year? Does that get factored into the price of oil/coal?

Just saying, it would be pretty hard for the sewer plant to compete costwise if we could all just **** in the river.

Subsidies for green energy or taxes on fossil fuels will help make them cost competitive.
It's not worth doing right now.
When things aren't in the crapper, it may be worth discussing.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Depends IMO, subisidies with a bad economy would be great, more taxes not so much.
I honestly don't see the worth in subsidizing it until it can achieve the same energy potential as oil and coal.

Sure they have pollution costs but the same can be true for "green" energy and there could be no real benefit.
 

zip98053

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My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.
This is the biggest economic opportunity of our age. It really doesn’t' matter if you believe in global warming or not. It doesn't matter if you like big government or not. It doesn't matter if you are a fossil fuel fan or not. This is about the largest infrastructure opportunity that has ever come along.

The record seems to be pretty clear that when we spend money on infrastructure, the economy grows. The energy infrastructure is about as big as it gets. Rebuilding it would create a huge number of jobs and massive general economic growth. There is simply nothing else around that offers this kind of potential for driving economic growth, nothing.

Let’s do this.
 

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They are already capable of mass-producing solar cells. If every house had it's roof covered in solar cells, it could drastically reduce the amount of non-renewable resources we need to power our homes. I honestly don't get why it's not more affordable right now.

YouTube - Nanosolar Utility Panel

Lower-cost Solar Cells To Be Printed Like Newspaper, Painted On Rooftops

Innovation puts next-generation solar cells on the horizon

High-efficiency Low-cost Silicon Solar Cell Demonstrated

IMO the evidence is there that solar power is a viable future solution to our energy needs... we just need bright minds who can outsmart our competition (other countries). Even if the panels wouldn't work at night, they would still cut energy costs during the day. But if we can improve our energy storage capabilities, they could power our homes even during the night. Most people use less power at night anyways.
 
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Wiseone

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Investment into green, or any other type of energy production could easily bring out new jobs, it just has to be planned and implemented right.

When the world moved from using lumber and wood as a primary energy source to coal, and then onto oil&natural gas, we didn't suddenly cease harvesting other forms of energy. We still cut down trees, although not really for fuel, and we still mine for coal, and if and when another form of energy production comes along we will still drill for oil. Why? Because global energy demand only ever goes up, so if one is concerned about a new energy production method destroying old jobs than there's no need to worry. The ever increasing energy demand will all but ensure that any method of energy production will have a healthier future.

All that needs to be done to ensure that new 'greener' energy production becomes just a big of a player as oil is simply to make it efficient and cost effective. Of course I say 'simply' but its hardly a simple task.

But whether you think the US or the world needs green technology or if its all just a bunch of hub-bub, fact is that the US and the world is going to need a new way to produce energy very soon, otherwise we'll see energy prices that will stifle economic growth or God forbid we actually run out of a resource. So when I see stories about investment in energy production, I'm all for it because even if whatever technology or method comes out of that investment its going to mean a longer energy future, less dependence on foreign oil(think if one day we could not buy Saudi oil), and if that energy also happens to be green and easier on the environment thats just icing on the cake. And cake is still good without icing.
 

Harshaw

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I don't give a crap about "fossil fuels" per se. I do give a crap about energy. And as it is, it's a physical and economic fact that oil is cheap, it's easily transportable, and it's highly energy-intensive.

Find something which beats it in those categories, and then you'll have something, and the world will happily convert. But wishes and good intentions aren't energy sources.
 

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Say we manage to create or harness this alternative "green" energy.

How expensive will it be to convert every house, business, school, car, stadium, skyscraper, university, train, plane, lawnmower, etc, to this new energy?

How do we switch out every outlet, every light switch, every gas oven and refridgerator, to accommodate this new fuel? How long until we build these new "fuel" centers to re-charge our vehicles and household items.

Take the stimulus money, and multiply it by the same number. It'll cost a trillion trillions.

Meanwhile, China will keep churning on cheap oil and gas, and we'll be Afghanistan before you know it.
 
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VanceMack

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My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.
At least MLK was honest enough to preface his comments with "I have a dream..."
 

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And as it is, it's a physical and economic fact that oil is cheap, it's easily transportable, and it's highly energy-intensive.
But oil will not always be cheap, in fact it will almost certainly get steadily more expensive. Investing in alternative sources of energy today will allow a less painful transition away from oil in the future.

Find something which beats it in those categories, and then you'll have something
How will we find it if we are unprepared to look for it?

Maybe there will be a 'eureka' moment when someone discovers a brilliant new source of energy nobody else had thought of, and it allows us an easy transition away from oil. But it would be foolish to close our eyes and hope this day will come while we steadily use up the world's natural resources.

There are alternatives out there, but like any nascent technologies they will find it difficult to compete with established technologies in a free market. Thus they must be supported in their development stages.
 

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When did I ever say we shouldn't look? In fact, implicit in what I did say is that we SHOULD look.

What I object to is all the flowery hooplah about technology which simply doesn't exist and no one really knows if it CAN exist -- especially when someone is so arrogant as to pin down an exact number of jobs it will create.

And on top of that, to start trying to kill oil before we even know we can get there at all is stupid beyond measure.
 

Slainte

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What I object to is all the flowery hooplah about technology which simply doesn't exist and no one really knows if it CAN exist -- especially when someone is so arrogant as to pin down an exact number of jobs it will create.
Do you have any specific examples?

Investing in renewable energy sources; wind, solar, wave, tidal, etc, will create jobs, and will generate energy. They won't do so at costs competitive to coal or gas, therefore there will need to be incentives to get pirvate enterprise interested.

Also, I do not believe anyone has stated the exact number of jobs that will be created, 'over 800,000' is just an estimate. I do not think it's that unreasonable.

And on top of that, to start trying to kill oil before we even know we can get there at all is stupid beyond measure.
I don't think anyone wants to 'kill' oil, indeed, that simply is not possible yet. But oil will steadily become more difficult to access, and therefore more expensive. We need to have developed alternatives that will be economical before the price of oil increases significantly.
 

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How much does that dirty energy pollution cost us each year? Does that get factored into the price of oil/coal?

Just saying, it would be pretty hard for the sewer plant to compete costwise if we could all just **** in the river.

Subsidies for green energy or taxes on fossil fuels will help make them cost competitive.
Figured out how your going to replace all those oil/coal jobs that are going to killed by the government forcing green energy on the American people, only to fatten their own wallets, by getting kickbacks and stock dividends from the green energy companies and the money that these same politicians have invested in green energy companies?
 

VanceMack

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Yea more tax payer money thrown at useless crap which will amount to nothing but creating more government waste.

What?
See your first line...

I have a dream..."that spending billions in government tax dollars and creating deeper debt will one day provide millions of jobs..."
 

Harshaw

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Do you have any specific examples?

Investing in renewable energy sources; wind, solar, wave, tidal, etc, will create jobs, and will generate energy. They won't do so at costs competitive to coal or gas, therefore there will need to be incentives to get pirvate enterprise interested.
I don't object to that. I object the promise of an panacea of "clean energy" when there's nothing to indicate it can actually be done.

No, this isn't like going to the Moon, much as Obama seems to think it is (which is ironic for other reasons). We knew how to go to the Moon when Kennedy committed us to it. We knew the exact steps which needed to be taken. "Clean energy" is a nebulous, nearly fantastic wish which doesn't even approach an actual quantifiable tangible goal, such as landing someone on the Moon and bringing him back.


Also, I do not believe anyone has stated the exact number of jobs that will be created, 'over 800,000' is just an estimate. I do not think it's that unreasonable.
Giving any pinnable figure at all is foolhardy when you're dealing with things which don't yet exist. Especially from someone who doesn't exactly have a good track record at predicting how many jobs his policies will create . . .


I don't think anyone wants to 'kill' oil, indeed, that simply is not possible yet.
The production of oil has been attacked, restricted, prohibited, "moratoriumed," taxed, and suffocatingly regulated 18 ways from Sunday.

And in any case:

Former vice-president Al Gore calls for end of fossil fuel use for electricity in US by 2018 | World news | guardian.co.uk

End use of fossil fuels in 20 years, UK warned | Environment | The Guardian

Press Release: The Green Party of Pennsylvania calls for an end to drilling for natural gas and other fossil fuels | Independent Political Report

Obama: Spill Can Signal End To Oil 'Addiction' : NPR

CBS and NBC Champion Gore's 'Green Gauntlet' to End Fossil Fuels | NewsBusters.org

Robin Chase: Fossil Fuel Is the New Slavery: Morally and Economically Corrupt

Leaders' Statement: The Pittsburgh Summit

And so on.


But oil will steadily become more difficult to access, and therefore more expensive. We need to have developed alternatives that will be economical before the price of oil increases significantly.
I already said I didn't disagree with that.
 

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The production of oil has been attacked, restricted, prohibited, "moratoriumed," taxed, and suffocatingly regulated 18 ways from Sunday.
As it should be. Would you prefer we use all of our oil deposits in the U.S. now and in the future when oil is even more expensive, we'll have to send even more money to foreign countries?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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As it should be. Would you prefer we use all of our oil deposits in the U.S. now and in the future when oil is even more expensive, we'll have to send even more money to foreign countries?
Oil is a global commodity, our money will go to whoever sells it on the market.
Just about everything else works like that as well.
 
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