Absolutely false.
the US has been occupied for millenia, and there were countries here before the US. resource stealing? we moved entire native American nations in order to gain access to resources.
Here you make excuses to break whatever law you want on the grounds that "others did it, so it's okay" to break laws.
First of all, no, there weren't other countries on this land prior to colonization and the creation of the U.S.
"Indians", as the previous settlers on the land were called, had
not formed countries with written laws that were known by other countries throughout the world.
When Columbus and the gang landed on the shores, they were greeted by the present settlers, who invited them to dinner, traded with them, and everyone was happy.
Though some tribes had uncommunicated tribal boundaries,
war broke out, violence erupted, and the Europeans got back in their ships and looked elsewhere for land.
Do you want to make an excuse for war here? Do you really want to bait a war between American citizens and illegals?
You really need to think a bit before you spout off the usual ideological mantras.
The bottom line is that a
modern nation exists on this land, one with
real demarcated boundaries using a demarcation system utilized and acknowledged
world-wide.
Those who trespass, forge identities, and steal jobs/classrooms/other-resources from American
citizens are
criminal law-breakers, nothing more.
They knew they were behaving like criminals when they commited their criminal acts.
They did so anyway, in willful violation of our laws.
No excuses suffice to tolerate that.
None.
Indeed, according your excuse you use here, the illegals are
invaders who should be
repulsed with military force.
I'd be careful, if I were you, the nature of the excuses you employ for violating
U.S. citizen rights.
immigrants have provided all of the above. we won the space race because of immigrants. immigrants have provides services and invaluable innovation. as a matter of fact, my own family were immigrants on both sides. and yours?
Meaningless.
This issue isn't a question of "immigrants".
It's a question is
legal or illegal behavior.
Though I will ask now: are your parents
illegals?
Regardless,
legal immigrants, those who have entered our country
not to commit
illegal acts are not at all the issue here.
The issue here isn't "immigrants".
The issue here is
illegals, law-breakers, criminals, and the right response is
enforce the law.
People aren't "immigrants" unless they come here
with respect to our laws.
Otherwise they're simply common thieves, nothing special, nothing more title-wise, nothing less than
law-breakers.
You're simply confusing the issue caused by your codependence and anti-American ideology.
irrelevant? debatable? how many people do you know who are trying to become a citizen, or to even get a green card? i assure you, it is considerable, and it certainly isn't irrelevant.
"It is so hard to earn a living here these days. I simply have to go out and steal some money."
:roll:
Your focus of "it's hard to get into America as a new citizen legally these days" is
irrelevant!
Your supposed whine does
not excuse trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealing,
not at all!
Do you
not get that?!
Geez!
Do you not understand
boundaries, why they exist, and why they
must be respected under penalty of law?
If there's a huge waiting list to get into America legally it's because we
don't have enough job openings with the current true unemployment rate at 14 percent and 47 million Americans un- and under- employed barely surviving on food stamps, or enough health-care facilities, or a thin enough population density to support new people, or enough unconjested roads, or adequate electricity generation, water supplies, etc., etc., etc.
Our good legal immigration laws
take all this into consideration.
That it's therefore
not the time for tons of immigration is simply something to
accept and respect.
Why do you even
care about how hard it is to enter America legally?
Why can't people just
wait their turn?
Why is people waiting to come here such a big deal for you?
If they aren't seeking emergency political asylum, then they can just remain in their present country until their number comes up.
That may be a bit frustrating for them that they can't have instant gratification on the matter.
But their impatience in
no way justifies
breaking our laws.
my good friend is a good friend whose family paid full cost for a bachelors and MBA in the US, and has dumped countless thousands of dollars into the US economy. my good friend has a great mind for business, and he can't use it in his field because it's next to impossible to get a damned green card.
None of that
matters with respect to American
rule of law.
Do you
truly not understand that?
As I said before, it doesn't matter how much money was paid for whatever purchases in the country in which the thievery occurred.
If your friend's parents are here illegally, if
he's here illegally, that's
all that matters -- they should be apprehended and dealt with in American
criminal court like
any criminal.
It doesn't matter what they bought here. It doesn't matter if they really did "dumped countelss thousands of dollars into the US economy". You simply can't
buy your way out of
American justice. Our justice system is rightly
blind to such egregiousness.
It also doesn't matter how smart your friend is or what a great mind he has -- these are unjustifiable
excuses for
breaking the law.
The excuses you're making are tantamount to an attorney arguing before the jury: "yes, my client broke into the plantiff's home, he contrived a fake key and opened their bedroom safe, and he stole their jewelry and savings bonds, but his parents worked hard and put him through school, and paid a lot of money for school for him, and my client has a great mind for business, etc. .. so he should be allowed to keep what he stole and not be punished in any way for it". :roll:
It boggles my mind that you don't see that's
precisely your argument.
It's ludicrous.
i am an American citizen. i was born here. that doesn't mean i can't see the stupidity of setting the bar so high for citizenship that we exclude people like my friend.
Again with the "my friend" excuse. :roll:
Is he here illegally?
Then he needs to be apprehended and prosecuted in an American courtroom.
Your codependence here is no excuse of the law.
If "he's my friend" was an acceptable excuse of the law, our society would be in utter chaos.
Fortunately, it's not.
The "bar" is simply not set too high.
In reality, it's likely far too low, considering 23 million Americans are unemployed and 28 million Americans are under-employed and 43% of Americans are still greatly suffering in the lingering effects of The Great Recession and 47 million are on food stamps!
Seriously, these are times to
reduce legal immigration, not increas it.
It's basic socioeconomics 100 class here.
i value it every day. however, that doesn't excuse xenophobia.
And here we go, the
race-baiting. :roll:
I wondered when that would rear its ugly head.
Yes, when rational arguments defeat all the un-American arguments soundly, out comes the
race-baiting.
Look, I understand you're frustrated and all, but calling people inappropriate and egregious names simply isn't the way to make a rational valid point with respect to American law and intelligent socioeconomics.
Respecting American law is simply that. Respecting socioeconomic realities is simply that as well. Managing U.S. resources, as our immigration laws are designed to do is simply that.
Illegals are of
all races, creeds and colors.
And, our good U.S. laws are
blind to that as well.
Our laws see only trespassers, identity-forgers, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealers, law-breaking criminals.
Your name-calling is an
immature response to having had your losing argument refuted.
If you truly do value your American citizenship, then you'll respect the citizenship of
every one of your fellow Americans, and stop arguing for the obvious
injustice toward your fellow Americans that amnesty and legalization for 20 million illegals most
certainly is.
and your family came here when and from where? i'm sure there were people here waiting to blame all of society's woes on them way back then, as well.
Your non sequitur here was meaningless.
Legal immigration is the
only form of immigration.
People who came here legally, no matter what the nature of the law was at that time, are not in violation of the law.
No matter who liked the immigrants or who didn't like the immigrants, if they were here legally, that's all that mattered; that made them immigrants.
The issue here is that illegals are simply
not immigrants; they're law-breaking criminals, nothing more.
That's the issue today, nothing more.
Here you clearly do not understand the law.
If
special circumstances are found to exist, then they are taken into consideration in judging the matter.
For instance, a father breaks into someone's home and steals a valuable necklace. Then he gives that necklace to his daughter for her 16th birthday. Criminal investigators later arrest the father and he's found guilty in court. The judge then orders the daughter to turn the necklace over to the police to be retuned to its rightful owner. But the daughter complains, saying, "It's mine, it was given to me and that makes it mine, and since I myself did nothing wrong, I being simply a gift-receiver, I should be allowed to keep my gift, to keep my necklace".
Under normal circumstances she is right with regard to the
law on possessions.
But, under
special circumstances, the fact that her father obtained the necklace illegally, that he had no right to give it to her, she is wrong, and has
no lawful claim to that necklace.
The same is true here.
Children born here to American citizens/legal immigrants indeed have a right to American citizenship.
But children born to parents who are illegals, the
special circumstances of illegals
rightly renders bestowing citizenship on their children
unlawful.
it's not a lack of respect. i hold a different opinion than you do. that's American, too.
"It's not a lack of respect that I stole your wallet, it's more that you had enough money already, and I needed some more; I simply hold a different opinoin than you do, and that's American, too".
:roll:
Your "opinion" is to disrespect American law and do an
obvious injustice to your fellow American citizens by advocating law-breaking thieves should keep their ill-gotten gains they stole from your fellow American citizens.
Yes, you have a right to that opinion, it's American to have a rght to that opinion, but that doesn't make your opinion
ethical with respect to your American patriotism and the rightfull respect you patriotically owe your fellow American citizens to support our laws in the name of
justice for your fellow American citizens.
Indeed, your opinion is an unethical, immoral, and egregious one, as it supports law-breaking criminals and injustice done to all Americans.
That
should matter to you.
