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Obama: Palestinian State Must Be Based on 1967 Borders

Mika-El said:
No of course not. What you have done is to provide an example of terrorism to then infer all Palestinians are terrorists.

If I did the same in reverse, if I presented a story of some extremist Israeli who engaged in violence or terror against Palestinians and referenced it to suggest ALL Jews, ALL Israeli Jews or ALL Zionists are terrorists what would your reaction be?

Its an old tactic. You smeer an entire people because of the negative actions of terrorists.

I reject your exercise. Its unoriginal and among other things its intellectually lazy. Its name calling. Its a negative smear of an entire people.

I detest it when it is done about Israelis, Jews, Zionists, I certainly detest it for the exact same reasons when you do it against Palestinians.

No I will not smeer all Palestinians because of the actions of terrorists in their name who are Palestinian or otherwise.
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Mika, where in hi post does he infer anything like what you accuse him of. So you make an inference and then decry someone for something only you said.

Also it seems like a weak debating point to say not ALL of anything believe anything. When you are talking about any group of millions of people of course you can't think they are all in lockstep. Sort of like saying that all Germans during WWII were Nazis.

I had at one time thought more highly of the debating skills you brought to the forum.
 
Mika-El said:
No of course not. What you have done is to provide an example of terrorism to then infer all Palestinians are terrorists.

If I did the same in reverse, if I presented a story of some extremist Israeli who engaged in violence or terror against Palestinians and referenced it to suggest ALL Jews, ALL Israeli Jews or ALL Zionists are terrorists what would your reaction be?

Its an old tactic. You smeer an entire people because of the negative actions of terrorists.

I reject your exercise. Its unoriginal and among other things its intellectually lazy. Its name calling. Its a negative smear of an entire people.

I detest it when it is done about Israelis, Jews, Zionists, I certainly detest it for the exact same reasons when you do it against Palestinians.

No I will not smeer all Palestinians because of the actions of terrorists in their name who are Palestinian or otherwise.
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The proof is they voted terrorists into the government. They do not want peace they want Jews dead and gone
 
xpiher said:
Its Hama's only card. If thats a precondition to negations, they have nothing left to bargain with.

I also thought of another little thing that could help alleviate the security issues of an independent Palestinian state, mutual defense pact treaty that last 60-100years (close to 60 would be better IMO) because lets be honest, any conflict involving Israel, inevitably will lead to Palestinian involvement.

The problem with the deal supported by Netanyahu is that it leaves Palestine defenseless, leaves a large standing army on its borders, and leave in place the causes of animosity (subjugation).
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The Palestinians are defenseless now yet have always been the aggressors, along with their Muslim neighbors. Israel could wipe the Palestinian territories off the map if it choose to, just as Hamass has faithfully promised to do to them. But Israel is a civilized society and would never make such declarations, much less have them in their Charter.
 
ptif219 said:
The proof is they voted terrorists into the government. They do not want peace they want Jews dead and gone
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In the real world there are only Jews and Arabs, no terrorists, no Jihad, only Jews seeking revenge for what the Arabs did to them and Arabs seeking revenge for what the Jews did to them, back and forth, back and forth. No one knows who fired the first shot...

Right now there seems to be a fragile peace, but it won't last long because there are too many families with dead relatives that seek revenge on both sides, and as we all know, or should know, revenge, especially family revenge, is the strongest motive of all.

ricksfolly
 
ptif219 said:
The proof is they voted terrorists into the government. They do not want peace they want Jews dead and gone
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Then the proof that a about a same percentage of Israelis are arab haters is in the fact that government is right wing right now.
 
xpiher said:
Then the proof that a about a same percentage of Israelis are arab haters is in the fact that government is right wing right now.
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You define them as 'right wing' and then believe that this makes them 'Arab haters'???

Your fantasies are all the evidence you need?
 
Grant said:
You define them as 'right wing' and then believe that this makes them 'Arab haters'???

Your fantasies are all the evidence you need?
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I talk to prof like talks to other people to try and show him how ridiculous he sounds.
 
ricksfolly said:
In the real world there are only Jews and Arabs, no terrorists, no Jihad, only Jews seeking revenge for what the Arabs did to them and Arabs seeking revenge for what the Jews did to them, back and forth, back and forth. No one knows who fired the first shot...

Right now there seems to be a fragile peace, but it won't last long because there are too many families with dead relatives that seek revenge on both sides, and as we all know, or should know, revenge, especially family revenge, is the strongest motive of all.

ricksfolly
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In the real world there are terrorists and in Israel they are always Arabs
 
xpiher said:
Then the proof that a about a same percentage of Israelis are arab haters is in the fact that government is right wing right now.
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You mean it shows they want the people protected.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Then you do not support the Israeli state, spawned of Irgun terrorism.
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The Irgun formed as a response to after 10 years of terror attacks against Jews by Arabs.

As stated by Mika they were very few in number. Their numbers varied from a few hundred to a couple thousand with only a few being active members. They had little support from most Jews especially for their acts of terror and were publically condemned.
In contrast Hamas has 10's of thousands of members with high levels of support for their group and terror by Palestinians. Polls consistantly showed approvals of over 90% by Palestinians for acts of terror on Israeli civillians.

While it is true some members of the Irgun have been elected to office it was many dacades after the Irgun had been disbanded and ceased terror activities. In contrast the Palestinians elected an active terror group and active terrorists.




"The Palestinians will, in fact, get their de facto state, though one that may be now cut off entirely from Israeli commerce and cultural intercourse. This is an apparently terrifying thought: Palestinian men can no longer blow up Jews on Monday, seek dialysis from them on Tuesday, get an Israeli paycheck on Wednesday, demonstrate to CNN cameras about the injustice of it all on Thursday — and then go back to tunneling under Gaza and three-hour, all-male, conspiracy-mongering sessions in coffee-houses on Friday. Beware of getting what you bomb for."
Victor Davis Hanson
 
Re: Obama says Palestine must be based in 1967 borders

Jetboogieman said:
You know, that's an extremely limited mindset.

What MOST people tend to want in the world, is just the ability to live out their lives in peace.

Not many people actively seek to live in war, or put their lives on the line.

I was watching a documentary the other day, about citizens of Jerusalem, and the vast majority of Palestinians interviewed just said, Look, we don't want the death of all Israeli's, we'd just like to live out our lives... one Palestinian gentlemen felt quite robbed, it showed him, and a Jewish fella on opposite sides of town, who payed exactly the same in municipal taxes, and yet after years of requests, the Palestinian were continually refused a sewage pipeline... eventually, they built it themselves at their own expense.

It is these small discrepencies that are sometimes the problem.

But to go to the extent and say that all arabs are blood thirsty monsters that want to kill people is such a fallacy it does not warrant a second thought, or any place in civilized debate, I've never met an arab in my life who felt that the extermination of Israeli's was the answer.

There are extremists on BOTH sides, let us not forget that the last Israeli prime minister who struck a peace deal was assasinated by Jewish extremists.

I don't sit on either side of this issue, I'm just pointing our your very troubling view of the arab peoples.
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Normal people like you and I don't want to live in war, but these Arab terrorists, who despise Israel, don't mind dying if they can murder Israelis in the process. It is hard to fight that kind of mindset, unless you totally annihilate these kinds of people. You know, use the same kind of warfare, they are dead set on using against Israel.

If you will read my previous post, I didn't say that all Arabs need to be annihilated. It was only directed to Arabs who want to destroy Israel.
 
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