• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

obama on Keystone pipeline

sawyerloggingon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
14,700
Reaction score
5,703
Location
Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Obama seems to think if the pipeline comes through America it will add to so called carbon pollution. Does he seriously not realize that oil is going somewhere else if not here? Can anybody defend or explain this idiotic statement?

"I'm going to evaluate this based on whether or not this is going to significantly contribute to carbon in our atmosphere. And there is no doubt that Canada at the source in those tar sands could potentially be doing more to mitigate carbon release"

Obama says the pipeline will mostly create temporary jobs. Didn't he recently put us trillions in debt to do just that, create so called shovel ready temporary jobs? ( Which mysteriously never materialized by the way). Anyone want to defend or explain this idiotic statement?

"The most realistic estimates are this might create maybe 2,000 jobs during the construction of the pipeline – which might take a year or two – and then after that we're talking about somewhere between 50 and 100 jobs in a economy of 150 million working people."

Obama's own state dept says 5000 to 6000 jobs by the way.

"The U.S. State Department calculated last year that the underground

pipeline would add 5,000 to 6,000 U.S. jobs."
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
Obama seems to think if the pipeline comes through America it will add to so called carbon pollution. Does he seriously not realize that oil is going somewhere else if not here? Can anybody defend or explain this idiotic statement?

"I'm going to evaluate this based on whether or not this is going to significantly contribute to carbon in our atmosphere. And there is no doubt that Canada at the source in those tar sands could potentially be doing more to mitigate carbon release"

Obama says the pipeline will mostly create temporary jobs. Didn't he recently put us trillions in debt to do just that, create so called shovel ready temporary jobs? ( Which mysteriously never materialized by the way). Anyone want to defend or explain this idiotic statement?

"The most realistic estimates are this might create maybe 2,000 jobs during the construction of the pipeline – which might take a year or two – and then after that we're talking about somewhere between 50 and 100 jobs in a economy of 150 million working people."

Obama's own state dept says 5000 to 6000 jobs by the way.

"The U.S. State Department calculated last year that the underground

pipeline would add 5,000 to 6,000 U.S. jobs."
Around 10,000 for 3-8 monts then they get the boot with around 3,000 pernament jobshttp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/31/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-would-mean-maybe-2000-jobs/

I mean it doesnt sound much of a huge job creator.. Plus after analyzing this.. Yea i sure as hell hope this doesnt come through this country. This whole pipeline thing is a dream when it comes to job and how it will "positively" affect our economy.


This whole thing will do more damage than it will help us.
 

sawyerloggingon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
14,700
Reaction score
5,703
Location
Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Around 10,000 for 3-8 monts then they get the boot with around 3,000 pernament jobshttp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/31/barack-obama/obama-says-keystone-xl-would-mean-maybe-2000-jobs/

I mean it doesnt sound much of a huge job creator.. Plus after analyzing this.. Yea i sure as hell hope this doesnt come through this country. This whole pipeline thing is a dream when it comes to job and how it will "positively" affect our economy.


This whole thing will do more damage than it will help us.
At least you didn't attempt to defend his idiotic statements, thank you. On the jobs thing though:

A look at some of the president's recent assertions on the pipeline and jobs and how they stack up:

---

OBAMA: "Republicans have said that this would be a big jobs generator. There is no evidence that that's true," he said in The New York Times interview. "And my hope would be that any reporter who is looking at the facts would take the time to confirm that the most realistic estimates are this might create maybe 2,000 jobs during the construction of the pipeline — which might take a year or two — and then after that we're talking about somewhere between 50 and 100 (chuckles) jobs in an economy of 150 million working people. ... That is a blip relative to the need."

THE FACTS: It's not clear where Obama came up with the 2,000-jobs figure.

The project's developer, Calgary-based TransCanada, has said the pipeline could create as many as 13,000 construction jobs — 6,500 a year over two years.

In its March report, the State Department put the number of construction jobs at 3,900 on an annual basis. That figure doesn't include an estimated 4,000 workers that TransCanada says it has hired for a 485-mile southern segment of the pipeline that already is under construction and nearing completion.

Nor do the figures include the peripheral jobs that would be created as a result of a major infrastructure project.

TransCanada says about 7,000 manufacturing jobs will be needed to support the overall project, which will stretch from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.

The State Department report goes further. It estimates that the project could help create — directly and indirectly — as many as 42,000 jobs, including jobs for suppliers and subcontractors that provide equipment and materials, as well as lodging, food services and other jobs related to construction. The figure includes part-time jobs.
Read more here: WASHINGTON: FACT CHECK: Obama understates Keystone XL jobs - Business Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
 

TheDemSocialist

Gradualist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
34,951
Reaction score
16,310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Socialist
At least you didn't attempt to defend his idiotic statements, thank you. On the jobs thing though:

A look at some of the president's recent assertions on the pipeline and jobs and how they stack up:

---

OBAMA: "Republicans have said that this would be a big jobs generator. There is no evidence that that's true," he said in The New York Times interview. "And my hope would be that any reporter who is looking at the facts would take the time to confirm that the most realistic estimates are this might create maybe 2,000 jobs during the construction of the pipeline — which might take a year or two — and then after that we're talking about somewhere between 50 and 100 (chuckles) jobs in an economy of 150 million working people. ... That is a blip relative to the need."

THE FACTS: It's not clear where Obama came up with the 2,000-jobs figure.

The project's developer, Calgary-based TransCanada, has said the pipeline could create as many as 13,000 construction jobs — 6,500 a year over two years.

In its March report, the State Department put the number of construction jobs at 3,900 on an annual basis. That figure doesn't include an estimated 4,000 workers that TransCanada says it has hired for a 485-mile southern segment of the pipeline that already is under construction and nearing completion.

Nor do the figures include the peripheral jobs that would be created as a result of a major infrastructure project.

TransCanada says about 7,000 manufacturing jobs will be needed to support the overall project, which will stretch from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.

The State Department report goes further. It estimates that the project could help create — directly and indirectly — as many as 42,000 jobs, including jobs for suppliers and subcontractors that provide equipment and materials, as well as lodging, food services and other jobs related to construction. The figure includes part-time jobs.
Read more here: WASHINGTON: FACT CHECK: Obama understates Keystone XL jobs - Business Breaking News - MiamiHerald.com
Did Obama lie about his number? Sure. Have republicans also? Yes. The point is this is going to be a jobs booster at all, nor is it going to be long term or stable jobs.
 

Verax

Disappointed in Trump
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
12,240
Reaction score
4,519
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Trade away the environment for a few thousand jobs, brilliant. Those reaping billions in the energy sector will be dead by the time their actions are accounted for.
 

uncleray

Active member
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
290
Reaction score
133
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Couple of points found during my googling:
The "oil" to go through the Keystone is realy diluted bitumen aka dilbit
The stuff is very corrosive; so watch how often the pipe leaks
If there is a major spill, the cleanup cost will be paid by the taxpayer not the
cleanup fund, which the oil companies pay into---because it's not "oil" per se.
Bottom line is this:
There will be temporary construction jobs to build the thing--couple of hundred--maybe.
After it's built, it will take 20-30 dial twiddlers to keep it running.
The ongoing jobs will be those hired to keep the thing from leaking.
The "oil" will be refined and sent onto the open market.
So much for "energy independence".
Just my $0.02
 

Drake McHugh

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
628
Reaction score
138
Location
Brookfield,Wisconsin
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Those jobs would benefit white working class types. He doesn't care for those type of people. Especially from states and areas he didn't win anyways.
 

head of joaquin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
12,029
Reaction score
3,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Given the incredible increase in oil and gas production under Obama (thanks to Carter's funding of research in fracking), Canadian oil has become a moot point.

This is just another example of Obamaphobia.
 

Drake McHugh

Well-known member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
628
Reaction score
138
Location
Brookfield,Wisconsin
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Given the incredible increase in oil and gas production under Obama (thanks to Carter's funding of research in fracking), Canadian oil has become a moot point.

This is just another example of Obamaphobia.
I think it's just touching how loyal you are to him. Such loyalty deserves a promotion or something.
 

wbcoleman

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
1,833
Reaction score
431
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Obama seems to think if the pipeline comes through America it will add to so called carbon pollution. Does he seriously not realize that oil is going somewhere else if not here? Can anybody defend or explain this idiotic statement?

pipeline would add 5,000 to 6,000 U.S. jobs."
Yes, I think I can explain it. Obama isn't stupid, left to his own devices he would probably approve the thing forthwith, but he is in hock to a gaggle of check-writing environmentalist wackos.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,638
Reaction score
20,383
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The Keystone pipeline may not get approved because of Obama's special interest obligations, however, that won't stop the oil from Alberta and northern states from getting to refineries. The oil will be loaded on tanker trains and travel south that way.

In addition, with TransCanada pipelines moving ahead with plans to reverse an all Canadian natural gas pipeline and extend it through to Quebec and New Brunswick refineries, at a cost of about $12 billion, almost twice the Keystone commitment, the construction jobs will now be Canadian jobs and the refineries in Quebec and New Brunswick will be upgraded and create new ongoing jobs in those two Canadian provinces for decades to come. In addition, they will be building new port facilities to assist in shipping the oil to markets that want to benefit from Canadian oil.

In effect, a decision to stop the Keystone pipeline won't hurt Canadian interests - we'll always have the oil and we either get it to market by pipeline or train - but the decision will hurt American interests in that new construction jobs will be lost and ongoing refinery jobs in the gulf will be at risk as more of their raw product is diverted to the Canadian east coast and to the Canadian pacific coast for shipment to Asia.

Commerce doesn't wait for a green energy zealot to get his head out of his ass.
 
Top Bottom