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Obama: "Islam has always been a part of America 's history."

joe six-pack

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I love this.

A Councilman's thread is a advertisement for bigoted Right-wing beliefs. Thomas Jefferson's owned a copy of the Qur'an. We have always been a "secular" Nation.

End of thread?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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These VERY childish threads are cancer for America.

DON'T just bitch... DISPUTE, REFUTE AND ILLUMINATE!

Where's your data?
 
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Muslims Americans have the same rights to live and worship in peace as everyone else who has ever come to our shores.

Oh really?! Wow! I don't think any of us knew that! THANKS!

It is time to stop advocating hate filled propaganda based on fear and Fox news.

Yeah! Right on! Time to stop advocating hate from fox and time to start advocating fear of fox from hate of something else! Woo hoo! nyguy for president!!
 

Hatuey

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DON'T just bitch... DISPUTE, REFUTE AND ILLUMINATE!

Where's your data?

What data? A bunch articles and Youtube videos lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe are not exactly quantitative of qualitative data. They're just a bunch of articles and Youtube lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe.
 
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Redress

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What data? A bunch articles and Youtube videos lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe are not exactly quantitative of qualitative data. They're just a bunch of articles and Youtube lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe.

Moderator's Warning:
Don't do the namecalling again.
 

Aunt Spiker

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During his Cairo speech, Obama said:
"I know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America 's history."

It's true, actually - because no single nation is independent of hte influence of others.

now - *how much* they're involved is a different issue and does not make his statement untrue.


There were no Muslims on the Nina, the Pinta, or Santa Maria.

There were no Muslims on the Mayflower with the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock.

There were Native Americans.
The first Thanksgiving seemed to have been devoid of any Muslims.

Indeed - and there were any Americans there, either. But it's our history, isn't it?

You have to take more personal time to read some history - learn where the Islamic culture and religion does play a part in history itself before you continue to draw conclusions based on your fractured grammar-school education.
 

pbrauer

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I love this.

A Councilman's thread is a advertisement for bigoted Right-wing beliefs. Thomas Jefferson's owned a copy of the Qur'an. We have always been a "secular" Nation.

End of thread?
And I wonder if he's ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli which was signed by President John Adams in 1797.

US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797
 

Republic_Of_Public

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What data? A bunch articles and Youtube videos lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe are not exactly quantitative of qualitative data. They're just a bunch of articles and Youtube lazily compiled by some chubby English xenophobe.

No, that's just bitching.

If the data really is so inconsequential, you'll have no trouble rebutting it. And as usual, it's more than the other side have. The king's got no clothes, etc.

But at least facing nothing but the usual hysteria and insult makes my life much easier.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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You have to take more personal time to read some history - learn where the Islamic culture and religion does play a part in history itself before you continue to draw conclusions based on your fractured grammar-school education.

Yeah, that's the stuff - flat denial and judgmental pontification but with no educational worth at all. Leftism at its best.


now - *how much* they're involved is a different issue and does not make his statement untrue.

Well there was a Muslim slave trade, in action centuries before and after ours. I think that counts.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm
 
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Councilman

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I can spend time digging up photos and putting together pieces of truth with some of opinion (along with ASSUMED information or statements) just like a divorce lawyer would do to the other side. If this was a court of law what you have about would be tossed out.

These VERY childish threads are cancer for America. If you want to be UN-American a post like this would be great. If you want to spread propaganda this is the way to do it. If you want to make America an ever weakened Nation, this is how ya do it. These threads defeat America, not make it stronger.

I STRONGLY dissagree with these PROPAGANDA threads! I am for a STRONG America.... not a America gripped in civil wars CREATED by Spin Doctors!!! :soap


I wonder what you were trying to say, so I highlighted your less than brilliant statement in red.

As a typical liberal you have no argument but you babble aimlessly very well.

You call historical facts propaganda? Prove one thing I said that is an error.

You can't because what I wrote is accurate and based on facts one of the two things Liberals can't deal with, the other is the truth.

Facts and the truth elude most Liberals and when the are confronted by either they have to go straight to name calling, lying, and obfuscation.

Try to learn just a little History before you shoot your mouth off, and risk being 100% wrong again.

It's funny as hell to have a Liberal Obamanite claim to be for a strong America and attack me. I live by the oath of office I took Obama does not, because he is Anti-American, and true Americans can see it.
 

Councilman

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It's true, actually - because no single nation is independent of hte influence of others.

now - *how much* they're involved is a different issue and does not make his statement untrue.

Indeed - and there were any Americans there, either. But it's our history, isn't it?

You have to take more personal time to read some history - learn where the Islamic culture and religion does play a part in history itself before you continue to draw conclusions based on your fractured grammar-school education.

Boy you Liberals go any length to deny facts. The discovery of America and the New World is part of American history that might have eluded your notice.

I can't believe you didn't know that. You can make illy claims but you can't back then with facts.

Name one famous American Islamic Cult member in History, just one.

And by the way. This has nothing what ever to do with the facts, unless you think John Adams was an Islamic Cultist.

pbrauer
And I wonder if he's ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli which was signed by President John Adams in 1797.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Oh, and next time the Great Dhimmi Berk at the White House wants to bend his back before the Saudis, let him consider telling them to knock off filling Britain with Sharia schools:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...faith-britain-even-poison-their-own-kids.html

You know the ones, as exposed MULTIPLE times on British television for teaching the true Islam... Jews are 'apes and pigs' (Koran 5:60), gays must be killed.. the usual devout Islamic stuff.

Let Obammy quote that from his poxy Koran!

________________________

The Koran


Intolerance in the Quran

'Page after page...' - Savage



 
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Harshaw

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Acknowledging the geography of the planet is not akin to saying the Soviet Union was going to kick our butts. You've just gone into making ridiculous leaps of logic and association, and it doesn't help whatever argument you are making

Well, who said I was "making an argument"? I was challenging the assertion that our status as the dominant power came about ONLY because there wasn't anyone else who could be. It's slobbering revisionist history, and in many cases proferred by the same people who said we couldn't compete with the USSR.
 

Paschendale

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What is the point of this argument? Whether or not there were Muslims in the US before 1900? Of course there were. Were any of the founding fathers Muslim? Of course not. But neither were they Catholic, Jewish, or Buddhist, and one would be incorrect to assert that America was ever a nation devoid of Catholics, Jews, or Buddhists.

Seriously, what is the point of this thread? Some people think Islam is some kind of satanic cult that's out to destroy their nice, safe, Christian world. And other people just want everyone to live and let live. Neither of those positions have anything to do with the history we are discussing!!

Yes, Islam is a part of America's history. Modern mathematics, which allowed a great deal of the engineering and navigation that allowed people to cross the ocean, came from Baghdad. Many of the navigational technologies employed by Columbus and other explorers were of Muslim origin. The political regime in Spain that funded Columbus' trip came about as a reaction to hundreds of years of Muslim rule in Spain. And that's just stuff in 1492. As long as Europeans were coming to America, they brought with them Jews, Asians, Muslims, Africans, and dozens of other groups. We have a mixed history. We are a mixed people today.
 

Albert Di Salvo

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We may have been mixed at one time, but we are no longer one people. We are Balkanized in mutual hostility. This thread has no point. Adios.
 

Deuce

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Boy you Liberals go any length to deny facts. The discovery of America and the New World is part of American history that might have eluded your notice.

I can't believe you didn't know that. You can make illy claims but you can't back then with facts.

Name one famous American Islamic Cult member in History, just one.

And by the way. This has nothing what ever to do with the facts, unless you think John Adams was an Islamic Cultist.

You're calling Islam a cult now? Well, at least you're finally being honest about your beliefs.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Modern mathematics, which allowed a great deal of the engineering and navigation that allowed people to cross the ocean, came from Baghdad. Many of the navigational technologies employed by Columbus and other explorers were of Muslim origin. The political regime in Spain that funded Columbus' trip came about as a reaction to hundreds of years of Muslim rule in Spain. And that's just stuff in 1492. As long as Europeans were coming to America, they brought with them Jews, Asians, Muslims, Africans, and dozens of other groups. We have a mixed history. We are a mixed people today.

More taquiyya, this time practised in the fashion of a dhimmi.

Advanced maths such as algebra can can traced back to the Babylonians and the Greeks. Nations which were already or about to be conquered by Islam would of course have heard of them, used them and been refined by learned men quite unlike the murderous Muhammad. There are no advanced mathematical revelations in the Religion of Peace.

For shipping, the compass predates even the Chinese and the sextant's origin for seafaring is unknown. (And although 'Muslim' astronomers are credited with the use of the first astronomical one, their search for the stars had the potential to shake their religious society every bit as much as the Europeans'.)

And the Moor regime in Spain was the result of a brutal jihad, which took swarthy Middle Eastern Muslim crusaders as far as Northern france before the Crusades put them out.

Though I'll leave it to you to tell us how many Muslims came to Rennaissance America, where, when, for who and why.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Boy you Liberals go any length to deny facts. The discovery of America and the New World is part of American history that might have eluded your notice.

I can't believe you didn't know that. You can make illy claims but you can't back then with facts.

Name one famous American Islamic Cult member in History, just one.

And by the way. This has nothing what ever to do with the facts, unless you think John Adams was an Islamic Cultist.

So you think that Islam has had no effect on us at all? Nevermind their influence on the African continent amid our flowering Atlantic Economy in the past. Nevermind the Slavs, the Moores and the Ottoman Turks and all that jazz in our European history which directly affected the attitudes and values of the Europeans who first came to populate the Americas. Nevermind all that.

Obama might have meant his phrase in a possitive direct-connection way - but I did not imply the same tone in my response - mine was quite negative (at least that's how I felt about it).

Were they *directly* constructive to our development and founding - or instrumental? No.
Did their various actions in the past affect our European history? Absolutely.
How much did they affect our founding and development? The degree of this is up for good debate.

It's humorous that in a mere misunderstanding of a post I get called a liberal. . .maybe you should put away your jump to conclusions mat, now?
 
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Hatuey

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No, that's just bitching.

On your part? Yes. It is. It's a lot of bitching about the scary Muslims who you swear are after your inconsequential ass. Your bitching would make you, well, the bitch in this abortion of a thread.

If the data really is so inconsequential,

Data of what? You posted a bunch of lazily compiled youtube videos and blog posts. Maybe you shouldn't use words as big as 'data'. Their definition seems to be a problem for you. Data involves some kind of scrutiny. What you have are sources that you are using to formulate an opinion. The Pew Center has data. You have sources. They are flimsy though. Maybe you should find an editor for yours. I mean even the NYT can find an editor for its sources. Maybe you should ask some of your fellow BNP members to proof read your sources?

you'll have no trouble rebutting it.

This right here is why I know you have no clue what it is you're talking about. As you have provided no actual 'data' of any kind, there's nothing to actually create a rebuttal for.

And as usual, it's more than the other side have. The king's got no clothes, etc.

Is that a weight joke? You sir are in no position to talk about weight if that is the case.

But at least facing nothing but the usual hysteria and insult makes my life much easier.

You: OMFGZ DA MUZLIM GWAN EAT US! HURRZ YOUTUBEZ AND PIKZ! YOU'Z A BITCH IF YOU NATZ BELIEFZ!

The 'other side': Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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Your bitching would make you, well, the bitch in this abortion of a thread.

Really....?

Maybe you should ask some of your fellow BNP members to proof read your sources?

No, not really. More Liberal slander and invalidation, yet again making no effort to refute such evidence with your own sources.

Less hot air and more substance next time.


This right here is why I know you have no clue what it is you're talking about.

More hot air. You could fuel a balloon.


Is that a weight joke?

No it wasn't. And I wouldn't get paranoid if I were you.


You: OMFGZ DA MUZLIM GWAN EAT US! HURRZ YOUTUBEZ AND PIKZ! YOU'Z A BITCH IF YOU NATZ BELIEFZ!

The 'other side': Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Gibberish now is it?
 

Redress

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PROTIP: Youtube videos are not proof of anything. Try finding real evidence from real, reputable places. 30 links from youtube and random partisan and off the wall sources only proves you don't have any real proof of your point.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Youtube contains a variety of material from a vast range of sources, including scores of reputable TV stations, hardly making it invalid. And if DP itself incorporates a Youtube video viewer then I'm hardly going to be dissuaded from using it.


...random partisan and off the wall sources...

What, and they still can't even refute my points, despite the playing field tilted so apparently in their favour?

Though I will say the name-calling and innuendo is entertaining.


_________________________________

And now I'm off to bed. I'm sure there'll be another hot frothy outburst to see me awake later!
 
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Deuce

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Youtube contains a variety of material from a vast range of sources, including scores of reputable TV stations, hardly making it invalid. And if DP itself incorporates a Youtube video viewer then I'm hardly going to be dissuaded from using it.




What, and they still can't even refute my points, despite the playing field tilted so apparently in their favour?

Though I will say the name-calling and innuendo is entertaining.


_________________________________

And now I'm off to bed. I'm sure there'll be another hot frothy outburst to see me awake later!

The plural of anecdote is not evidence. 1.3999 billion peaceful Muslims out there kinda poke holes in your stance here.
 

Paschendale

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More taquiyya, this time practised in the fashion of a dhimmi.

Advanced maths such as algebra can can traced back to the Babylonians and the Greeks. Nations which were already or about to be conquered by Islam would of course have heard of them, used them and been refined by learned men quite unlike the murderous Muhammad. There are no advanced mathematical revelations in the Religion of Peace.

For shipping, the compass predates even the Chinese and the sextant's origin for seafaring is unknown. (And although 'Muslim' astronomers are credited with the use of the first astronomical one, their search for the stars had the potential to shake their religious society every bit as much as the Europeans'.)

And the Moor regime in Spain was the result of a brutal jihad, which took swarthy Middle Eastern Muslim crusaders as far as Northern france before the Crusades put them out.

Though I'll leave it to you to tell us how many Muslims came to Rennaissance America, where, when, for who and why.

Every part of this is wrong. Mathematics in Greece and Babylon still used pictographic writing, or methods similar to Roman numerals. Until the introduction of the modern 10-based number system, which originated in India in the 600's and was popularized during expansion from Baghdad. In 1200, Europeans were still counting V's and X's while Muslims were just shy of inventing calculus.

The compass was not invented in China, and the origin of the sextant IS known. It was invented by Muslims in the 13th century. During the European Dark Ages, Islam was promoting learning, literacy, and invention. Medicine and science in the Middle East were HUNDREDS of years ahead of Europe. Islamic culture did not quash any knowledge that didn't square with their comfortable religion. That was the providence of our people. In modern times, they've learned to emulate our behavior. Ohh... good for us.

When Muslim conquerers came to Spain (not doubting the violence at all, but let's be honest and admit that no group of people is non-violent), they brought that learning with them. They brought advanced medicine and technology. Spain prospered during that time. Muslims and the Europeans living there co-existed in relative harmony. It was only when Europeans returned to power that the name of the game was torture and forced conversion.

I'd also like to point out the double standard in your post. It's a brutal jihad when Muslims conquer Christians, but it's totally cool when the opposite happens. Also, glad to know that you focus on the "swarthy" Middle Easterners. Racism is a totally acceptable position when talking about other cultures.

In short, you can't make up stories and pass them as fact. Learn actual history. You'll find that real life does not square with your notion that white, Christian, western Europeans were the universal good guys you imagine them to be. They were just as brutal and violent as everyone else, often moreso, and have spent a lot of history aggressively attacking knowledge and learning in order to maintain their own power. History is not full of good guys and bad guys. It's full of people, with equally legitimate cultures and ideals, often in conflict.
 

Jetboogieman

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Every part of this is wrong. Mathematics in Greece and Babylon still used pictographic writing, or methods similar to Roman numerals. Until the introduction of the modern 10-based number system, which originated in India in the 600's and was popularized during expansion from Baghdad. In 1200, Europeans were still counting V's and X's while Muslims were just shy of inventing calculus.

The compass was not invented in China, and the origin of the sextant IS known. It was invented by Muslims in the 13th century. During the European Dark Ages, Islam was promoting learning, literacy, and invention. Medicine and science in the Middle East were HUNDREDS of years ahead of Europe. Islamic culture did not quash any knowledge that didn't square with their comfortable religion. That was the providence of our people. In modern times, they've learned to emulate our behavior. Ohh... good for us.

When Muslim conquerers came to Spain (not doubting the violence at all, but let's be honest and admit that no group of people is non-violent), they brought that learning with them. They brought advanced medicine and technology. Spain prospered during that time. Muslims and the Europeans living there co-existed in relative harmony. It was only when Europeans returned to power that the name of the game was torture and forced conversion.

I'd also like to point out the double standard in your post. It's a brutal jihad when Muslims conquer Christians, but it's totally cool when the opposite happens. Also, glad to know that you focus on the "swarthy" Middle Easterners. Racism is a totally acceptable position when talking about other cultures.

In short, you can't make up stories and pass them as fact. Learn actual history. You'll find that real life does not square with your notion that white, Christian, western Europeans were the universal good guys you imagine them to be. They were just as brutal and violent as everyone else, often moreso, and have spent a lot of history aggressively attacking knowledge and learning in order to maintain their own power. History is not full of good guys and bad guys. It's full of people, with equally legitimate cultures and ideals, often in conflict.

soccer_net_hexagon.jpg


Excellent post.
 
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