Obama: I didn't draw the red line on Syria, world did [W:162]

[ttwtt78640]

Here's the truth:
and...and...Who denies or seeks to spin the president's statements about the red line are either lying or patently ignorant of the facts.

You left out "or blindly support Obama no matter what".

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Typical Obama. I didnt do it. The world did it. The republicans. Congress. Just...not me.

 

[trfjr]

Not my red line, the world's red line. Not my credibility, the world's credibility. Not my fault, the world's fault.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

It will be, actually. The President's reputation is on the line (to disagree with him), the Congress's reputation is on the line, the American public's reputation is on the line, and the international community's reputation is on the line.

Was all that on the line when dems tried to defund the Iraq war?

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

“We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said a year ago last week. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.”

Once again we see the right try to pin something on him.

He pinned it on himself.

 

[Fiddytree]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Was all that on the line when dems tried to defund the Iraq war?

In my view, yes.

 

[Bronson]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Ehhh..ok whatever...I was against the intervention in Libya as well. I'm pretty dovish when it comes to military intervention but whatever conforms to your make believe narrative.

Oh yea you're such a dove :roll:

You're such a dove you support "The International Community" intervening in civil wars because "chemical weapons" were used. Other atrocities happening don't matter. The use of chemical weapons didn't matter when Saddam used them on the Kurds, but suddenly in your perception of reality chemical weapons = instant justification for war. The rebels also acquired chemical weapons. It's on video. How do we know they didn't use them? What would Assad gain by using chemical weapons right now? The last time I checked, the US didn't have international support either. We're pretty much alone. Obama is the one who set the red line, yet here you are trying to obfuscate, distract, pretending to be a dove while in reality you're the warmongering hawk trying to drag this country into another unjust war.

 

[aberrant85]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

He's ducking behind a metaphor. I gotta remember to use that line next time I get backed into a corner.

 

[sociotard]

Here's the truth:
and...and...Who denies or seeks to spin the president's statements about the red line are either lying or patently ignorant of the facts.

I'll say it again. The president did set a red line. His statement "I didn’t set a red line, the world set a red line. My credibility’s not on the line. The international community’s credibility is on the line. And America and Congress’s credibility’s on the line." was also not a lie. It was a rhetorical device. Poetic truth, if you will.

The international community has repeatedly set its stance against the use of chemical weapons, as has the US government historically. Obama is trying here to get congress to intervene. He knows that congress doesn't like him. So, he reminds Congress that this isn't an "Obama" position, so much as a "Global Position since WWI" and a "US position".

Again, I hope Obama fails to persuade Congress. I hope that the US stays out of this conflict. But I do not think this was a lie, per se.

 

[Erod]

Whe does Obama only support action when it benefits a radical Islamic movement?

 

[EdwinWillers]

Whe does Obama only support action when it benefits a radical Islamic movement?

Shhhh.... not supposed to ask that [totally obvious (and valid)] question.

 

[molten_dragon]

Talk about slithering snakes...

Unbelievable.

If the world set the line, then let them enforce the penalty for crossing it. We don't need to be involved.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Oh yea you're such a dove :roll:

You're such a dove you support "The International Community" intervening in civil wars because "chemical weapons" were used. Other atrocities happening don't matter. The use of chemical weapons didn't matter when Saddam used them on the Kurds, but suddenly in your perception of reality chemical weapons = instant justification for war. The rebels also acquired chemical weapons. It's on video. How do we know they didn't use them? What would Assad gain by using chemical weapons right now? The last time I checked, the US didn't have international support either. We're pretty much alone. Obama is the one who set the red line, yet here you are trying to obfuscate, distract, pretending to be a dove while in reality you're the warmongering hawk trying to drag this country into another unjust war.

What are you even talking about. You're ranting.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Nothing Confusing about MY Conservative thought process, I hold people to account for their actions.

I noticed you bought into his nonsense, because you're attributing HIS redline, ( do I really need to quote what he said ? ) to the International Communities " redline".

He DID NOT say, when the Syrians step over the redline the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY will have to "re-calculate" things.

He said HE WOULD HAVE TO RE-CALCULATE things. It was his red line.

And I brought up Libya becausr he went in alone. What redline did Khadafi step over ?

Khadafi said he was going to burn a city to the ground and massacre rebelling cities.

I didn't buy into anything. The use of chemical weapons is something the supposed international community won't stand for. I don't think we should do the dirty work of everyone else. If they are cool with chemical weapons being used not sure why we should lob missiles. I'm fairly happy with the US not highhandedly being in charge of enforcing norms.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Usually, you're pretty logical, but this is just nonsense.

Well I appreciate that..you as well.

If Obama was concerned about "doing the right thing" as you say, he would have announced to the American public and the world, a few weeks back, when the chemical attacks took place, that he was going to Congress to seek authorization for some targetted strikes against Syrian government assets. He would not have spent 10 days or so ramping up the military rhetoric, having his entire defense and foreign relations cabinet out on TV talking about an "eminent" strike" and even identifying the targets that were under discussion for attack.

I'm worried about actions. Bush also stated he was going to exhaust every means possible before taking action against Iraq. I don't enjoy chest thumping on the international scene. Not a big fan of his rhetoric about Syria but ultimately his actions are to take the question to Congress. As he should.

The only reason Obama is going to congress now is he doesn't have the backbone, the integrity, the force of character, to act on his own words now that he's out on that branch all by himself. While he had Cameron and Britain to prop up his weak knees, he could fake strength - without him, he ran for the cover of congressional authorization.

I don't see war or strikes as one man exerting his will. That's just bs. Everybody in this country is paying the taxes (and debts) not to mention dealing with the repercussions of past conflicts. I don't want a lone ranger President. I don't think a President is tough sending other people into harms way.

If you can't see this plainly for what it is, then you are enabling one of the worst Presidents ever to be foisted onto the world stage.

Once again...almost everything you mentioned as what he should do are actions I can't stand about Presidents.

The whole tough President...I'm quick on the trigger damn the consequences is something I think a lot of people are tired of.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Well I appreciate that..you as well.



I'm worried about actions. Bush also stated he was going to exhaust every means possible before taking action against Iraq. I don't enjoy chest thumping on the international scene. Not a big fan of his rhetoric about Syria but ultimately his actions are to take the question to Congress. As he should.


I don't see war or strikes as one man exerting his will. That's just bs. Everybody in this country is paying the taxes (and debts) not to mention dealing with the repercussions of past conflicts. I don't want a lone ranger President. I don't think a President is tough sending other people into harms way.


Once again...almost everything you mentioned as what he should do are actions I can't stand about Presidents.

The whole tough President...I'm quick on the trigger damn the consequences is something I think a lot of people are tired of.

I can appreciate all of that - we clearly see President Obama's actions leading up to this point in time differently. As for President Bush and Iraq, he did, indeed, try to seek UN approval to enforce the UN's own sanctions and consequences for not following those sanctions. As I've said elsewhere, the French had a vested interest in vetoing action against Iraq because they were benefitting from conspiring with Sadaam to skirt the oil for food sanctions.

Likewise, President Bush didn't go out or send out his cabinet to outline the targets his military intends to hit. President Obama has been a serial leaker when it comes to the US military and intelligence services whenever he feels leaking serves him personally. I think President Bush had more respect for those who serve in the military.

But I think we do agree that it's too late to intervene in Syria now - the opportunity to affect real change with decent outcomes has long passed.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

I can appreciate all of that - we clearly see President Obama's actions leading up to this point in time differently. As for President Bush and Iraq, he did, indeed, try to seek UN approval to enforce the UN's own sanctions and consequences for not following those sanctions. As I've said elsewhere, the French had a vested interest in vetoing action against Iraq because they were benefitting from conspiring with Sadaam to skirt the oil for food sanctions.

Likewise, President Bush didn't go out or send out his cabinet to outline the targets his military intends to hit. President Obama has been a serial leaker when it comes to the US military and intelligence services whenever he feels leaking serves him personally. I think President Bush had more respect for those who serve in the military.

But I think we do agree that it's too late to intervene in Syria now - the opportunity to affect real change with decent outcomes has long passed.

Sure...I can understand your perspective. I disagree about Bush leaking things...that administration was a serial leaker. They constantly leaked stuff to the NY Times via Judith Miller and then quoted her on national TV as if her sources weren't just repeated administration leaks.

 

[EdwinWillers]

I'll say it again. The president did set a red line. His statement "I didn’t set a red line, the world set a red line. My credibility’s not on the line. The international community’s credibility is on the line. And America and Congress’s credibility’s on the line." was also not a lie. It was a rhetorical device. Poetic truth, if you will.

The international community has repeatedly set its stance against the use of chemical weapons, as has the US government historically. Obama is trying here to get congress to intervene. He knows that congress doesn't like him. So, he reminds Congress that this isn't an "Obama" position, so much as a "Global Position since WWI" and a "US position".

Again, I hope Obama fails to persuade Congress. I hope that the US stays out of this conflict. But I do not think this was a lie, per se.

Yes, he did make the red line statements (see post #50). But to characterize this latest prevarication as a "rhetorical device" is - at best, missing the point. It's distancing; it's back pedaling; it's a vain attempt to take the focus off of him. Why all of a sudden does someone like him, a politician want the focus off of him when virtually any other time their focus is just the opposite?

He made an embarrassing rookie mistake. The world knows it; the international community knows it; America knows it; congress knows it. And he knows it.

And rather than admit the mistake, he's seeking to save face by pretending the mistake wasn't his. This is no rhetorical device. Who uses rhetoric to disguise their own cowardice?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Sure...I can understand your perspective. I disagree about Bush leaking things...that administration was a serial leaker. They constantly leaked stuff to the NY Times via Judith Miller and then quoted her on national TV as if her sources weren't just repeated administration leaks.

See, the difference we have here is that Bush, like most Presidents, had his administration leak intelligence about foreign governments/actions. Obama likes to leak information about US actions - such as bin Laden, cyber-attacks in Iran, targets in Syria, etc.

 

[Fenton]

“We have been very clear to the
Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said a year ago last week. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.”

Once again we see the right try to pin something on him.

We "Righties" are powerless, without the ammunition to critique his character but for the massive amount ammunition your President and you lefties give up on a daily basis.

How about you vet your candidates next time, and quit making it so easy for us.

Obama voted present 129 times in the Illinois Legislature.

If that didn't tip you people off as to the content of Obama's character, well then I guess nothing would of.

 

[Fenton]

Yes, he did make the red line statements
(see post #50). But to characterize this latest prevarication as a "rhetorical device" is - at best, missing the point. It's distancing; it's back pedaling; it's a vain attempt to take the focus off of him. Why all of a sudden does someone like him, a politician want the focus off of him when virtually any other time their focus is just the opposite?

He made an embarrassing rookie mistake. The world knows it; the international community knows it; America knows it; congress knows it. And he knows it.

And rather than admit the mistake, he's seeking to save face by pretending the mistake wasn't his. This is no rhetorical device. Who uses rhetoric to disguise their own cowardice?

And who defends using rhetoric to disguise their own cowardice ?

The lefties here at DP.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

“We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized,” the president said a year ago last week. “That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.”

Once again we see the right try to pin something on him.

Heaven forbid "the right" actually cite his OWN WORDS...that would be unfair!

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

See, the difference we have here is that Bush, like most Presidents, had his administration leak intelligence about foreign governments/actions. Obama likes to leak information about US actions - such as bin Laden, cyber-attacks in Iran, targets in Syria, etc.

The administration leaked things that turned out to be untrue and used Judith Miller's reporting in the Times as "proof" there was evidence out there. To me that's infinitely worse. Judith Miller's actions and the administration in that situation were basically selling war to America that it wasn't sure it wanted.

 

[MMC]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

Go figure.....you knew he was going to come back and try to deny his claim to fame....since it didn't work out.


But you can bet your ass if all had worked. He would be Standing on his Redline with nothing but a **** eating grin.

 

[humbolt]

Re: Now he's lying about the Red Line...

He pinned it on himself.

With pride, at the time. It was his calculus, his equation.