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Obama decrees 54.5 miles per gallon

jambalaya

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If this comes to pass it will be another great example of the government governing with a sledge hammer when a rubber mallet would suffice.

If we are really concerned about fuel consumption and emissions instead of forcing manufacturers to spend large amounts of money in research, development, and factory retooling which will ultimately cost the consumer why do we not simply lower the speed limits back to 55mph? This would save roughly 20-25% in fuel consumption and emissions and cost very little (replacing speed limit signs).

Sure the public will whine initially but it isn't nearly as bad as many will claim. I was driving back before they allowed them to be raised above 55 and when you are used to it it seems normal an of no inconvenience.
I wish there was a hate button because I would hate your idea of going back to 55 mph. Nope. Just make cars more efficient and keep the speed up.
 

jambalaya

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This is why I hate CAFE as a means to improve fuel efficiency

Rather then force automakers to produce cars consumers do not want, increase the price of gas. Then consumers will want fuel efficient vehicles, that automakers would be more then willing to produce. This is the case in Europe and Japan. Where luxury cars can be seen with diesels and get 40 mpg (or so, PeteEU will be able to say what an Audi A6 with the smaller diesels can get)
As much as I would hate the higher prices it would move the ball further if everyone had to pay more at the pump. We have the technology and know how to make more efficient cars but there is not enough urgency.
 

Dittohead not!

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I wish there was a hate button because I would hate your idea of going back to 55 mph. Nope. Just make cars more efficient and keep the speed up.
I can remember when the speed limit was 55. Word was that a ticket for up to 70 cost $35. I figured I could afford to risk that, so set my cruise at 69, and was pretty much keeping up with traffic.

Now, I'm not sure just what the limit may be. There are signs posted beside the road, to be sure, but they bear no resemblance to the actual speed of traffic.
 

Tigger

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As much as I would hate the higher prices it would move the ball further if everyone had to pay more at the pump. We have the technology and know how to make more efficient cars but there is not enough urgency.
For the people I know, including myself, it would simply mean a reduction in our available "free" money, and therefore a reduction in the amount we are able to spend on discretionary spending. It wouldn't make me change the car I drive at all.
 

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Ahh yes... the mid 70's and 80's which gave us the K car.... perhaps the second coming of the K car is now upon us.



Can't you just see people running out with jubilation and gleefully plopping down their cash for one of these beauties? (A modernized derivative of course!)

And what was wrong with the K cars?

Most of them made it a whole week before something went wrong.
 

Deuce

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I wish there was a hate button because I would hate your idea of going back to 55 mph. Nope. Just make cars more efficient and keep the speed up.
Slowing down is inherently more efficient due to reduced aerodynamic drag, though.

Not that I agree with dropping the speed limits.

Some day improved battery technology will make this a wasted discussion, though. I just hope that comes soon!
 

Ockham

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Slowing down is inherently more efficient due to reduced aerodynamic drag, though.

Not that I agree with dropping the speed limits.

Some day improved battery technology will make this a wasted discussion, though. I just hope that comes soon!
Well, someday we'll all be dematerializing and rematerializing instantly a la Star Trek but you and I won't be around to see it, nor I think will we be around to see such improved battery technology in the next 30 years that would make fossile fuels obsolete. I'd be happy to be wrong though.
 

Belgarath

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Well, someday we'll all be dematerializing and rematerializing instantly a la Star Trek but you and I won't be around to see it, nor I think will we be around to see such improved battery technology in the next 30 years that would make fossile fuels obsolete. I'd be happy to be wrong though.
Start Trek does not dematerialize...you're thinking of Doctor Who. More importantly- I personally wouldn't be affected by gas prices or mileage, since I either walk, run, bike, or use public transportation. However, I think that we really can't know what will happen until we get there. We've been stuck in a cycle for decades- high gas prices result in research for fuel efficient cars, then gas prices drop and *poof* nobody cares about the research anymore. For the moment, we're thinking (at least to some degree) about gas prices. Someday, probably not too long from now, we'll stop. Then start again. The only question is, will we hit a breakthrough on this cycle? The next one? The one 50 years from now? We'll find out when we get there, and not a moment sooner. In the meantime though- I advocate awesome scooters/bikes: you can get 45-60 mpg on them, they're not too expensive, and they're fun as hell to ride.
 

Ockham

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Start Trek does not dematerialize...you're thinking of Doctor Who.
So Bones, Spock and Kirk stood on those little circular plates and said "energize" for nothing?
 

Belgarath

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So Bones, Spock and Kirk stood on those little circular plates and said "energize" for nothing?
Nah. They were actually destroyed and then rebuilt- the particles that composed their body's literally were separated, and then reformed where they got to. They had to energize the teleport thingies. The TARDIS actually dematerializes, goes into the Time-Space Vortex, and then rematerializes. Have you ever noticed that they call it "beaming" in Star Trek versus "materializing" in Doctor Who?
 

DiAnna

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I think MPG might be kind of irrelevant for a family of 6, since they'd have to use three of those vehicular roller skates just to get the entire family from point A to point B.
 

Ockham

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Nah. They were actually destroyed and then rebuilt- the particles that composed their body's literally were separated, and then reformed where they got to. They had to energize the teleport thingies. The TARDIS actually dematerializes, goes into the Time-Space Vortex, and then rematerializes. Have you ever noticed that they call it "beaming" in Star Trek versus "materializing" in Doctor Who?
Okay... :ninja:
 

Helix

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personally, i hope that sometime during this century, we develop a fuel that can replace oil and that we can produce domestically. i find the Bakken claims questionable, and i simply don't believe that we can ever meet our own oil demand domestically. probably the best path forward is to use electric vehicles as a transition to whatever is next, but we don't have the electrical infrastructure. not to mention there's a reluctance to build coal plants, and many are scared of nuclear power.

personally, i'm more frightened of what will happen if we don't vastly increase our electrical grid before demand completely outstrips supply.
 

1Perry

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I don't think we come anywhere close to what we are capable of doing as far as fuel mileage goes.

Back around 1990 I had a 5 speed Mazda Protege. On a trip I got 40 mpg. (doing 65ish). Today that's as good as you are going to get out of a gas engine. There is no reason we shouldn't have made improvments in the last 20 years.

30 years ago I'd get 50mpg out of a diesel Rabbit. You don't get that out of a new VW diesel. Yes, the car of today is a much nicer car but we've regressed as far as fuel mileage goes.

We recently took my friends 1966 Chevelle with a 250 and 3 speed O/D on a trip and got 26 mpg. New cars of that size are only doing that well.

We should have diesel hybrids today getting 70-80 mpg.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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I don't think we come anywhere close to what we are capable of doing as far as fuel mileage goes.

Back around 1990 I had a 5 speed Mazda Protege. On a trip I got 40 mpg. (doing 65ish). Today that's as good as you are going to get out of a gas engine. There is no reason we shouldn't have made improvments in the last 20 years.

30 years ago I'd get 50mpg out of a diesel Rabbit. You don't get that out of a new VW diesel. Yes, the car of today is a much nicer car but we've regressed as far as fuel mileage goes.

We recently took my friends 1966 Chevelle with a 250 and 3 speed O/D on a trip and got 26 mpg. New cars of that size are only doing that well.

We should have diesel hybrids today getting 70-80 mpg.
Cars have regressed for a few reasons

Engines are tuned for power rather then fuel efficiency, and the weight of modern cars is suprisingly heavy. Last but not least polution controls do affect fuel efficiency
 

pragmatic

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I don't think we come anywhere close to what we are capable of doing as far as fuel mileage goes.

Back around 1990 I had a 5 speed Mazda Protege. On a trip I got 40 mpg. (doing 65ish). Today that's as good as you are going to get out of a gas engine. There is no reason we shouldn't have made improvments in the last 20 years.

30 years ago I'd get 50mpg out of a diesel Rabbit. You don't get that out of a new VW diesel. Yes, the car of today is a much nicer car but we've regressed as far as fuel mileage goes.

We recently took my friends 1966 Chevelle with a 250 and 3 speed O/D on a trip and got 26 mpg. New cars of that size are only doing that well.

We should have diesel hybrids today getting 70-80 mpg.
In highschool/college had a 1961 Volvo P1800. Electronic overdrive (toggle switch on the dash, very cool). Legit 40 MPG on the highway.

And here we are....







.
 

American

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The negotiations allowed for some concessions to Detroit automakers as well, and Michigan's congressional delegation got behind the agreement.

"The agreement President Obama announced today will now take significant steps to increase vehicle fuel economy and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, and at the same time will protect American jobs, promote American manufacturing of advanced-technology vehicles, and help ensure that American automakers have a level playing field to produce and sell the vehicles consumers want to buy," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.
Don't tell me that Carl Levin, one of the biggest liberals in the Universe, finagled a deal for Detroit (his home town). Doesn't he care about the planet, the galaxy or even the Universe? Apparently he is usually opposed to good gas mileage, not because of Detroit, but because it's just wrong and would cause a loss of Big Oil jobs.

:lol:
 

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In highschool/college had a 1961 Volvo P1800. Electronic overdrive (toggle switch on the dash, very cool). Legit 40 MPG on the highway.

And here we are....







.
An absolutely cool car. When I was a kid, my dentist had a white one.
 

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I think your safest bet would be a semi truck... if anybody hits your semi, they'd probably die but you'd be ok unless you tipped but that's what seat belts are for
The govt should mandate motorcycles for everyone, because they get the best gas mileage of all.
 

Kernel Sanders

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Slowing down is inherently more efficient due to reduced aerodynamic drag, though.

Not that I agree with dropping the speed limits.
This is not true. Engines have a peak efficiency band and it is not at the bottom. Your car is more efficient at 60 than it is at 20.
 

AdamT

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This is not true. Engines have a peak efficiency band and it is not at the bottom. Your car is more efficient at 60 than it is at 20.
Transmission ratios can be adjusted to suit different situations.
 

Deuce

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This is not true. Engines have a peak efficiency band and it is not at the bottom. Your car is more efficient at 60 than it is at 20.
I was assuming you design the engine for the desired speed.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The govt should mandate motorcycles for everyone, because they get the best gas mileage of all.
Depends on the bike

My Yamaha YZF R1 was horrible on gas. Worse then my last car, but a lot faster
 

molten_dragon

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We were talking about this at work the other day (I work in the automotive industry), and we all have serious doubts as to whether or not this is feasible. There are some loopholes that I'm sure will be exploited, but even using those it will be quite difficult.

The automakers agreed to it though, so clearly they think they can pull it off.
 

Dittohead not!

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Nah. They were actually destroyed and then rebuilt- the particles that composed their body's literally were separated, and then reformed where they got to. They had to energize the teleport thingies. The TARDIS actually dematerializes, goes into the Time-Space Vortex, and then rematerializes. Have you ever noticed that they call it "beaming" in Star Trek versus "materializing" in Doctor Who?
I wonder if I could dematerialize, then rematerialize again 30 years or so younger? Now, that would be a breakthrough!
 
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