• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Care and the Supreme Court

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Why do liberals keep shouting that Obama Care is Constitutional the Supreme Court said so? How is that relevant to the argument that while it may be Constitutional it isn't good for the American people? What is the logic there? I guess the liberals realize they don't have a good argument for the ACA so they keep running to the Supreme Court decision on the mandate.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,605
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Let me ask you this, then. What argument do you have that the supreme court's decision is wrong or improper? You might disagree with their reasoning, but they are empowered to make that decision, not you. Or are we actually debating Marbury v Madison?
 

Ray410

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
4,838
Reaction score
2,565
Location
Nevada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The question is Was Roberts bribed or blackmailed?
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Let me ask you this, then. What argument do you have that the supreme court's decision is wrong or improper? You might disagree with their reasoning, but they are empowered to make that decision, not you. Or are we actually debating Marbury v Madison?

I'm saying the Supreme Court decision isn't even relevant to the discussion.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
you are suggesting that John roberts was bribed or blackmailed?

what if he made his decision out of his own volition.

Then he's an idiot or politically motivated. Neither of which is proper for the job.
 

Unitedwestand13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
20,738
Reaction score
6,290
Location
Sunnyvale California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Then he's an idiot or politically motivated. Neither of which is proper for the job.

many liberals consider judges alito and scalia to have the same problems, but the only way anyone can leave the supreme court is if they choose to step down.
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
64,082
Reaction score
25,342
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I'm saying the Supreme Court decision isn't even relevant to the discussion.

And neither is bad mouthing something that hasn't even taken effect yet. It's like you know it will work and that's why you can't let it happen.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
And neither is bad mouthing something that hasn't even taken effect yet. It's like you know it will work and that's why you can't let it happen.

It has taken effect, and the fears are showing to be true. Anyone with half a brain who actually read the thing knew what would happen.
 

Carleen

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
8,009
Reaction score
3,335
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Why do liberals keep shouting that Obama Care is Constitutional the Supreme Court said so? How is that relevant to the argument that while it may be Constitutional it isn't good for the American people? What is the logic there? I guess the liberals realize they don't have a good argument for the ACA so they keep running to the Supreme Court decision on the mandate.

Because republicans challenged the constitutionality of the law and the supreme court said it was constitutional. Since they didn't win that argument, they started with their 42 repeal votes. Be that as it may, people had their chance to say no to the ACA and not re-elect Pres Obama but they did. The ACA is here to stay.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
many liberals consider judges alito and scalia to have the same problems, but the only way anyone can leave the supreme court is if they choose to step down.

You show your case against them and I might just very well agree. In the mean time, someone needs to tell me how Roberts can use the taxing and spending clause that can only be used towards the enumerated powers when nothing about forced commerce falls under any the powers given to congress. Don't even try the commerce clause unless you can show an on going trade dispute between the 'listed' members. Of course, I have no idea how you are going to show that people not having insurance is a trade dispute between anyone.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Because republicans challenged the constitutionality of the law and the supreme court said it was constitutional. Since they didn't win that argument, they started with their 42 repeal votes. Be that as it may, people had their chance to say no to the ACA and not re-elect Pres Obama but they did. The ACA is here to stay.

This should be fun. Tell me, when you force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions what are you making them provide for others? Service. This service is involuntary, right? You know what that means? Oh yeah, the thirteenth amendment comes into play. I love that amendment. Btw, I can do the same with businesses having to provide people with insurance coverage. :)
 

washunut

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
12,592
Reaction score
3,785
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Because republicans challenged the constitutionality of the law and the supreme court said it was constitutional. Since they didn't win that argument, they started with their 42 repeal votes. Be that as it may, people had their chance to say no to the ACA and not re-elect Pres Obama but they did. The ACA is here to stay.

Are you really saying that the key to Obama's reelection was his stance on ACA, that there were millions of single issue voters regarding this bill?
 

Unitedwestand13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
20,738
Reaction score
6,290
Location
Sunnyvale California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
You show your case against them and I might just very well agree. In the mean time, someone needs to tell me how Roberts can use the taxing and spending clause that can only be used towards the enumerated powers when nothing about forced commerce falls under any the powers given to congress. Don't even try the commerce clause unless you can show an on going trade dispute between the 'listed' members. Of course, I have no idea how you are going to show that people not having insurance is a trade dispute between anyone.

I don't know what Roberts argued in his ruling.

but roberts can use the taxing and spending clause with relation to the affordable care act because the mandate was ruled as a tax, and i presume that by using the Neccessary and proper clause as justification, the congress can use the powers of the taxing and spending clause to enforce the insurance mandate.
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I don't know what Roberts argued in his ruling.

but roberts can use the taxing and spending clause with relation to the affordable care act because the mandate was ruled as a tax, and i presume that by using the Neccessary and proper clause as justification, the congress can use the powers of the taxing and spending clause to enforce the insurance mandate.

No, you can't use the necessary and proper clause. Nothing about this would be necessary to carry out the enumerated powers. People having insurance has nothing to do with making the government operational. Sorry, you aren't going to find anything. You guys are just lucky that the supreme court is so corrupt.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Because republicans challenged the constitutionality of the law and the supreme court said it was constitutional. Since they didn't win that argument, they started with their 42 repeal votes. Be that as it may, people had their chance to say no to the ACA and not re-elect Pres Obama but they did. The ACA is here to stay.

Voting for Obama =/= Voting for ACA. You realize that right? They voted against ACA in 2010 when they kicked the Dems out of the House that pushed it through. That being said, ALL polls are saying the country doesn't want ACA, and they have said that for years.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,836
Reaction score
18,507
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Many common citizens are opposed to ObamaCare but support the Affordable Care Act. LOLOL
Because republicans challenged the constitutionality of the law and the supreme court said it was constitutional. Since they didn't win that argument, they started with their 42 repeal votes. Be that as it may, people had their chance to say no to the ACA and not re-elect Pres Obama but they did. The ACA is here to stay.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,836
Reaction score
18,507
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
We're now up to 72% of Americans against the Republican shutdown, and Republicans around for Newt's tantrum know it. This is what the party of Speaker Cruz and Speaker Limbaugh and hidden Speaker DeMint get.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,836
Reaction score
18,507
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Who cares?

72% of Americans who blame your team. Which means the Republican Lie machine is at it again but will be set straight.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
We're now up to 72% of Americans against the Republican shutdown, and Republicans around for Newt's tantrum know it. This is what the party of Speaker Cruz and Speaker Limbaugh and hidden Speaker DeMint get.

Republicans didn't shut down the Government, the Democrats did because they are unwilling to compromise. Get the facts straight. And it isn't a true shutdown either.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,836
Reaction score
18,507
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
wrong again---at least by 72% of Americans---gives us a clean CR and we might negotiate
Republicans didn't shut down the Government, the Democrats did because they are unwilling to compromise. Get the facts straight. And it isn't a true shutdown either.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Why do liberals keep shouting that Obama Care is Constitutional the Supreme Court said so? How is that relevant to the argument that while it may be Constitutional it isn't good for the American people? What is the logic there? I guess the liberals realize they don't have a good argument for the ACA so they keep running to the Supreme Court decision on the mandate.

There are a lot of laws SCOTUS approved which are not good for the American People. Since when was that a criteria for anything?
 

Henrin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
60,458
Reaction score
12,357
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
72% of Americans who blame your team. Which means the Republican Lie machine is at it again but will be set straight.

Whatever. When was the last time a safety net passed with popular support? Get to digging there. Medicare btw was 48%, so don't try that.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Republicans didn't shut down the Government, the Democrats did because they are unwilling to compromise. Get the facts straight. And it isn't a true shutdown either.

bwahahahaha...is that what Fox news is selling?
 
Top Bottom