Obama as one of the Greatest Presidents Ever

[EMNofSeattle]

How is this different than the dozens of other nations we have diplomatic relations with?

Opening up Cuba will be a positive mark for Obama. This is coming from someone who strongly dislikes Obama.

The difference is, we did sanction cuba, we set conditions on lifting sanctions, cuba had absolutely nothing we needed, and Obama went out and lifted sanctions for nothing in return. Making the country look weak. We could've left sanctions up for a thousand years, who cares?

Once the castros died cuba would've come to the table. Obama decided to put his legacy ahead of our best interests

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Has Obama lost the new cold war? Seems like he is really trying mightily to do so...

Really? You mean all our SSBN's have pulled back into port? All our military has stood down? We've retreated in toto from the Middle East and all the rest of the world? And he's eased all the economic sanctions on Russia that have caused their economy to shrink for three years running (from before the oil glut hammered oil prices)?

Man, but you better go tell the newspapers, 'cause it looks like you're the only one who knows all this!!!!

 

[DifferentDrummr]

He was neither the greatest nor even great, but he was definitely better than average.

For one of the most difficult jobs on the planet, that's still saying a lot.

 

[Tigerace117]

Why Obama Will Go Down as One of the Greatest Presidents of All Time | GQ



Consider the fact that Obama was dealt a really ****ty hand and managed to avoid faltering, like Carter or Hoover, and instead dramatically improved the situation, like Reagan and Roosevelt. Consider the fact that Obama has legacy defining achievements in the domestic realm, like the first overhaul to the medical insurance industry in nearly 50 years or overseeing a dramatic improvement for LGBT rights. Not to mention the avoidance of any large scale terrorist attacks on domestic soil. And there are international achievements like the first international agreement with Iran in 40 years and a thawing of diplomatic relations with Cuba for the first time in 40 years. Not to mention overseeing the death of Osama bin Laden.

And then consider the personal attributes - his charisma, his humor, his soaring rhetoric. These are attributes that we can find amongst the greatest presidents.

One of the greatest presidents of all time? Not really.

He did a decent job, but I'd hardly rank him up there with a Lincoln or a Washington.

 

[TheGoverness]

One of the greatest presidents of all time? Not really.

He did a decent job, but I'd hardly rank him up there with a Lincoln or a Washington.

I agree. Obama was no FDR, he didn't bring real 'change' to this country.

In fact, if I had been ignorant about politics in general from the end of Bush's presidency to up to where Obama's presidency is now, I wouldn't be able to notice any real change within the country, because nothing really did change at all.

 

[MrT]

The difference is, we did sanction cuba, we set conditions on lifting sanctions, cuba had absolutely nothing we needed, and Obama went out and lifted sanctions for nothing in return. Making the country look weak. We could've left sanctions up for a thousand years, who cares?

Once the castros died cuba would've come to the table. Obama decided to put his legacy ahead of our best interests

If Cuba has absolutely nothing that we need, then what benefit would there be to waiting until they came to the table and offered...what? They have nothing that we need.

 

[Tigerace117]

I agree. Obama was no FDR, he didn't bring real 'change' to this country.

In fact, if I had been ignorant about politics in general from the end of Bush's presidency to up to where Obama's presidency is now, I wouldn't be able to notice any real change within the country, because nothing really did change at all.

I mean, some things did change, but all in all it wasn't anything near what people were expecting when he was elected.

Essentially the main difference was we went from "more than willing to hammer anybody who looked sideways at us and **** logistics, casualty rate and, you know, confirming our sources' Intel" to "eh somebody else will probably handle it. "

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If Cuba has absolutely nothing that we need, then what benefit would there be to waiting until they came to the table and offered...what? They have nothing that we need.

To institute whatever reforms we demanded when we established the embargo.

And wait a thousand years if nessecary

 

[TheGoverness]

I mean, some things did change, but all in all it wasn't anything near what people were expecting when he was elected.

Essentially the main difference was we went from "more than willing to hammer anybody who looked sideways at us and **** logistics, casualty rate and, you know, confirming our sources' Intel" to "eh somebody else will probably handle it. "

Definitely. Obama actually inspired me in 2008, and I actually thought he was going to bring real change. But in reality, my hope was for naught, because he just turned out to be the same as the rest of the politicians out there. His presidency is one of the reasons why I don't identify as a Democrat anymore.

 

[justabubba]

i too, anticipate Obama will be positively judged by history
like a good scout, he definitely will leave this nation much better off than when he found it
a blight on ford's brief administration was his pardon of nixon
i hope Obama keeps that in mind when the FBI presents its assembled evidence to the DoJ to determine whether to seek indictment relative to hillary's email fubar

 

[TheGoverness]

The difference is, we did sanction cuba, we set conditions on lifting sanctions, cuba had absolutely nothing we needed, and Obama went out and lifted sanctions for nothing in return. Making the country look weak. We could've left sanctions up for a thousand years, who cares?

Once the castros died cuba would've come to the table. Obama decided to put his legacy ahead of our best interests

How is that making the US look weak? It's eliminating a really stupid embargo that we've had over Cuba for decades now. It's progress if anything.

 

[Tigerace117]

Definitely. Obama actually inspired me in 2008, and I actually thought he was going to bring real change. But in reality, my hope was for naught, because he just turned out to be the same as the rest of the politicians out there. His presidency is one of the reasons why I don't identify as a Democrat anymore.

Yep. Exact same thing. With, of course, the suprise twist that this time the guy in charge was African American.

The novelty of that wore off after the first year.

At least he didn't run the country into the ground.

However, his foreign policy has been "interesting" to say the least, and as you've said he never quite lived up to the hype.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I specifically avoided referencing his skin tone because I knew that conservatives would jump on that line as their primary criticism of this analysis. Just glad to see you couldn't resist.

There was no resistance involved, in fact I never even considered blow back. I mean he IS the first American black president it's kind of hard to ignore. Further, having such equality was one of the things we/I fought for when squaring off with the Nation Guard on various campuses.

What scares me is many of those attitudes are so very prevalent today

 

[EMNofSeattle]

How is that making the US look weak? It's eliminating a really stupid embargo that we've had over Cuba for decades now. It's progress if anything.

I already explained it. We had considerable sanctions on that country, cuba would not have had the political will to continue the sanctions after the strongman leaders (castros) died. They would've come to us. Eventually but it would've happened.

We instead (because Obama wanted the credit) went to cuba, and gave them a bunch of stuff and then lifted sanctions revising nothing in return. That's called weakness

 

[TheGoverness]

I already explained it. We had considerable sanctions on that country, cuba would not have had the political will to continue the sanctions after the strongman leaders (castros) died. They would've come to us. Eventually but it would've happened.

We instead (because Obama wanted the credit) went to cuba, and gave them a bunch of stuff and then lifted sanctions revising nothing in return. That's called weakness

Why would we went want (or need) to receive anything in return? Cuba doesn't have much to offer us right now, because they country is basically stuck in the 1960's because of the U.S Embargo.

How would you know if Cuba's leaders would have come crawling to us? That's not a certainty. And even if we waited till the Castro's were either dead or out of power, that wouldn't suddenly make Cuba come crawling to us for help.

It's better to end the stupid embargo now, rather than let it continue on for another decade. It's stupid, there's no point to it, and the Cubans have suffered for too long now.

 

[Fletch]

Your kidding me right? The Bush Administration had everything[/i] to do with causing 9/11, not Bill Clinton. They had MEMOS that they were going to attack the WTC, but the Bush Administration ignored them.

Perhaps you are unaware, but the 9/11 terrorist attack was planned during the Clinton years and a number of those guys were here in the US taking flying lessons long before Bush took office. Oh, and those MEMOS did not spell out what was going to happen, just that AQ was planning something big. The truth is, 9/11 had NOTHING to do with Bush. There are plenty of things to blame him for, 9/11 is only blamed on him by cranks.

 

[TheGoverness]

Perhaps you are unaware, but the 9/11 terrorist attack was planned during the Clinton years and a number of those guys were here in the US taking flying lessons long before Bush took office. Oh, and those MEMOS did not spell out what was going to happen, just that AQ was planning something big. The truth is, 9/11 had NOTHING to do with Bush. There are plenty of things to blame him for, 9/11 is only blamed on him by cranks.

Oh no...

Not another conspiracy theorist...

Can you even demonstrate to me that even a sliver of that is true?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why would we went want (or need) to receive anything in return? Cuba doesn't have much to offer us right now, because they country is basically stuck in the 1960's because of the U.S Embargo.

How would you know if Cuba's leaders would have come crawling to us? That's not a certainty. And even if we waited till the Castro's were either dead or out of power, that wouldn't suddenly make Cuba come crawling to us for help.

It's better to end the stupid embargo now, rather than let it continue on for another decade. It's stupid, there's no point to it, and the Cubans have suffered for too long now.

No it was not better.

The sum of Obamas foreign policy is america is weak and doesn't follow through on anything.

FDR wouldn't have ended the embargo. Only Obama would

 

[TheGoverness]

No it was not better.

The sum of Obamas foreign policy is america is weak and doesn't follow through on anything.

FDR wouldn't have ended the embargo. Only Obama would

Obama's foreign policy is no different from Bush's; there's little to no difference in how they operate.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Oh no...

Not another conspiracy theorist...

Can you even demonstrate to me that even a sliver of that is true?

It's simple math. How long was Bush in office before the attack? Seven months?

Now look at the planning. The perpetrators entered the country a year or two before. Therefore, if the story it was planned and carried out by Osama bin Laden is true, then the planning for it probably started soon after Clinton hurled a cruise missile at them and missed.

I agree, GWB was an horrific president, but he wears nothing on the 911 attacks.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Obama's foreign policy is no different from Bush's; there's little to no difference in how they operate.

Outright false.

But I don't like Bushs either, so I dot get the point you're making

 

[TheGoverness]

It's simple math. How long was Bush in office before the attack? Seven months?

Now look at the planning. The perpetrators entered the country a year or two before. Therefore, if the story it was planned and carried out by Osama bin Laden is true, then the planning for it probably started soon after Clinton hurled a cruise missile at them and missed.

I agree, GWB was an horrific president, but he wears nothing on the 911 attacks.

I can see you point, now that I really think about it.

 

[TheGoverness]

Outright false.

But I don't like Bushs either, so I dot get the point you're making

Nope, that's true. Name 1 significant thing that's different from Bush's foreign policy to Obama's.

 

[TheGoverness]

Perhaps you are unaware, but the 9/11 terrorist attack was planned during the Clinton years and a number of those guys were here in the US taking flying lessons long before Bush took office. Oh, and those MEMOS did not spell out what was going to happen, just that AQ was planning something big. The truth is, 9/11 had NOTHING to do with Bush. There are plenty of things to blame him for, 9/11 is only blamed on him by cranks.

I have to rescind my earlier statement. I mistook your statement for being a conspiracy theory, when I actually hadn't really processed what you had said.

I apologize for assuming you were just some crazy conspiracy theorist.

But now that I've thought about it, I pretty much have to agree with you.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I can see you point, now that I really think about it.

In all things political, there is what is, and what someone has caused us to think.

In this day of instant communications, people are making decisions based on less and less real information. We are in fact being managed. I.e., we had a Mountie get killed in a car crash. The RCMP, no stranger to propaganda, saw to it she was given a high profile funeral complete with a parade due a fallen soldier. Her status as a mom and a wife was played to the hilt. During the 'discussions' I heard the Inspector in Chief using the phrase "Line-of-duty death" again and again. Well it was, but it was a freaking car crash. And soon many saw that all this attention takes away from the true heroes who have faced death or died saving a life. It became evident the event had been manipulated to maximize media attention, thus raising the image of the Horsemen, who are facing several law suits for sexual harassment and other things Canadians won't tolerate. (The famed RCMP have been overdue for a housecleaning for 120 years)

There's no conspiracy involved, only that everyone from politicians to cops to doctors and environmental activists are either knowledgeable on how to propagandize, or soon will be.