Obama and Holder give the green light on legal pot.

[CalGun]

I'd have you try to explain it too my parents, but they are gone now - they were preceeded in death thanks to a "kid" enjoying his high while missing a stop sign and killing my brother.

If you mean a true Conservative, as in "small government", yes. In that respect, even I am a conservative. But, the vast majority of "conservative" politicians are social conservatives, AKA Authoritarian Liberals. Such liberals are typically not trying to end any government spending.

Studies have shown that people who are going to DWI will tend towards Marijuana instead of Alcohol, if it's legal. Marijuana does impair your driving skills, but not nearly as bad as Alcohol; statistically, marijuana's availability reduces rates of traffic accidents. Why Medical Marijuana Laws Reduce Traffic Deaths | TIME.com

If we could just magically "make" all drugs go away, then we would, but we can't. Prohibition is ignoring the problem, while regulation deals with it. In Portugal's case, they decriminalized all drugs, and still found it to be less harmful than prohibition. Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME After allowing everything from Marijuana to Heroin, they found that all use dropped, addiction rates dropped, STD rates from needle sharing dropped, Overdoses dropped, total drug related deaths dropped, and teen drug use dropped. It was a complete success. We've seen similar success stories from dozens of countries that have started to reverse drug prohibition, and it's most noticeable for Marijuana.

All places that have legalized, regulated, or decriminalized Marijuana have found that all negative things associated with it start to reduce. Prohibition is the cause of the harm.

 

[douglas]

I'd have you try to explain it too my parents, but they are gone now - they were preceeded in death thanks to a "kid" enjoying his high while missing a stop sign and killing my brother.

My condolences, but I have to ask how prohibition helped? It was illegal, and it still happened. If making it legal would help prevent that kind of death, why would anyone want to keep it illegal.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Nice quip, but you wouldn't seriously suggest that the federal government prosecute cases in states that that have legalized pot. That would go against two conservative principles: upholding states rights and reducing government spending (particularly wasted government spending.)

Apparently you're unaware but federal law preempts state law. And why would Obama, a federal law breaker and former stoner, want to uphold his constitutional responsibilities as POTUS, that U.S. laws are enforced?

 

[upsideguy]

Apparently you're unaware but federal law preempts state law. And why would Obama, a federal law breaker and former stoner, want to uphold his constitutional responsibilities as POTUS, that U.S. laws are enforced?

Certainly I understand the fed law trumps state law. But, why would anyone be so stupid as to swim upstream on this? Its a waste of government resources and will accomplish nothing. Leadership is about knowing what battles to pursue and what hills one should risk dying on. Certainly any real conservative would come down on the side of letting the states go as they may and the feds not spend money on silly things, like swimming upstream.

 

[Nynaeve Meara]

You can assume it is less harmful than cigs and alcohol but you can't say that with fact. Making pot legal would increase its use, and thus increase the amount of "high driving" which is more difficult for LE to detect then drunk driving. Since its harder to detect people will be more inclined to get away with it - more people will die - but hey you get high so its all good - that how society roles - what is good for me - doesn't matter if it means a coffin for you.

Actually yes I can say it is safe in nearly every way.

SAFER - Marijuana vs. Alcohol

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Certainly I understand the fed law trumps state law. But, why would anyone be so stupid as to swim upstream on this? Its a waste of government resources and will accomplish nothing. Leadership is about knowing what battles to pursue and what hills one should risk dying on. Certainly any real conservative would come down on the side of letting the states go as they may and the feds not spend money on silly things, like swimming upstream.

And why would any liberal feel compelled to adhere to federal law unless a law appeals to them like Roe v Wade. Leadership is adhering to the laws of the land, as the POTUS is sworn to do, and trying to change them through processes provided by the constitution if you don't like them. Apparently that's too stupid and conservative for you and Obama as well.

 

[sbrettt]

I'd have you try to explain it too my parents, but they are gone now - they were preceeded in death thanks to a "kid" enjoying his high while missing a stop sign and killing my brother.

This is very similar to the parents of shooting victims pushing for gun control. Touching, saddening, but in the end you and them are attempting to punish responsible people because some people can't handle the responsibilities that come with smoking pot, and gun ownership.

 

[sbrettt]

Drunk Driving kills a lot of people, and so why exactly would we want to add to that by encouraging the use of pot?

No matter what anyone does or says, people will smoke weed. It doesn't matter if it's illegal or legal. People will smoke weed.

 

[sbrettt]

You can assume it is less harmful than cigs and alcohol but you can't say that with fact.

No, alcohol and cigs directly kill people. Marijuana doesn't. Plain and simple.

Making pot legal would increase its use, and thus increase the amount of "high driving" which is more difficult for LE to detect then drunk driving.

Legality doesn't matter. It makes no difference because either way people will smoke.

Since its harder to detect people will be more inclined to get away with it - more people will die

Instead of banning it all together, why not find ways to better detect it?

but hey you get high so its all good - that how society roles - what is good for me - doesn't matter if it means a coffin for you.

Do you see the similarities with this argument against pot, and arguments used by proponents of gun control?

 

[James D Hill]

I'd have you try to explain it too my parents, but they are gone now - they were preceeded in death thanks to a "kid" enjoying his high while missing a stop sign and killing my brother.

Drunk's do the same thing and booze is not illegal. I have smoked pot since 1976 and have never wrecked a car from it. I did get me fired from a failed drug test though. I am sorry for your parents and don't know what drug that driver took but you know as well as I do teen drivers can be bad high or not.

 

[James D Hill]

And why would any liberal feel compelled to adhere to federal law unless a law appeals to them like Roe v Wade. Leadership is adhering to the laws of the land, as the POTUS is sworn to do, and trying to change them through processes provided by the constitution if you don't like them. Apparently that's too stupid and conservative for you and Obama as well.

That law and order crap does not take into account not all laws are fair. Not all laws are right and must be changed. Now 52% of Americans now support legalizing pot and 68% have a negative view on the war on drugs. Conservatives always defend the status quo on laws and you almost always have to fight them to get it changed. We put up with booze and cigarettes so why not a much safer marijuana. It should make sence to conservatives too. Why not?

 

[James D Hill]

You can assume it is less harmful than cigs and alcohol but you can't say that with fact. Making pot legal would increase its use, and thus increase the amount of "high driving" which is more difficult for LE to detect then drunk driving. Since its harder to detect people will be more inclined to get away with it - more people will die - but hey you get high so its all good - that how society roles - what is good for me - doesn't matter if it means a coffin for you.

It is fact and the number of deaths prove it. People have been smoking pot in this country bigtime since the 60,s. Don't you think by now we would have known if it is dangerous my friend? Anti drug hesteria has clouded the minds of many people. Pot is much safer than booze. Here is a queston I always ask. If you had two young couples lets say 20 to 21 years old. Two boys and two girl's. Which would get them into more trouble. A half oz of good pot or a half gallon of hard booze? Which drug could get those young ladies pregnant. Which drug could cause the young men to get into a fist fight? Which drug could cause a car wreck at a higher rate? Which drug could kill you if you overdose? You know the answer. The Booze.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

That law and order crap does not take into account not all laws are fair. Not all laws are right and must be changed. Now 52% of Americans now support legalizing pot and 68% have a negative view on the war on drugs. Conservatives always defend the status quo on laws and you almost always have to fight them to get it changed. We put up with booze and cigarettes so why not a much safer marijuana. It should make sence to conservatives too. Why not?

Law and order crap keeps you safe for the most part from a lawless society, in case you've forgotten. Typical liberal, if YOU like laws then they are great. If you don't then whine, whine, whine.

Instead of pissing and moaning about it on a daily basis, why don't you do something to repeal the law like those who liked to drink did to repeal the 18th Amendment to the Constitution.

.

 

[JayGatsby]

He is talking about the federal govt's decision to ignore another law; in this case the MJ laws passed in Washington and Colorado.

Maybe if he or one of his family members is run into by a pot smoking teenager and killed on the highway he'll think differently then he does now. I know its impacted my family that way and it sickens me that people want to help put more high smokers on the road next to the drunk drivers.

Let's go back to Prohibition!!!!!! That'll get the drunk drivers off the road right?

It's harder for someone underage to get alcohol, because it's legal, than weed. There is no alcohol dealers on the streets really; if legalizing takes the drugs from the dealers and into the hands of legitimate business owners than that would make the roads safer.

 

[douglas]

Let's go back to Prohibition!!!!!! That'll get the drunk drivers off the road right?

It's harder for someone underage to get alcohol, because it's legal, than weed. There is no alcohol dealers on the streets really; if legalizing takes the drugs from the dealers and into the hands of legitimate business owners than that would make the roads safer.

Most of the opposition isn't seeing the big picture of how Marijuana legalization effects Alcohol consumption. If it's legalized/decriminalized/regulated, Marijuana use among adults will increase. That's a given, all studies of places where the laws were changed have confirmed that adult use increases. Teen use decreased every time, due to the effect you mentioned, but teens don't drive for the most part. So, it's definitely conceivable that legalization will increase traffic deaths due to Marijuana. I'd appreciate some solid trend data, but I take it for fact that Marijuana/DWI will increase, along with the relevant death rates.

But, it reduces Alcohol consumption and Alcohol/DWI. That's the big concept that they're not seeing, or atleast not accepting. Alcohol, per user, is around 5 times as likely to cause a traffic death via DWI. Meaning if even just one person stops drinking and driving for every 5 people that start stoning and driving, the Death rate will not increase. All studies have not only shown that to be true, but that even more than just 1 person stops Drinking and driving for every 5 Stoned drivers. That Decreases the total death rate due to all DWI's.

Less people die at the end of the day, and that's the big picture. People that have lost loved ones to stoned driving will probably never accept the big picture, so it's not really a matter of giving them facts or studies. They can't let themselves give up their war, even if it costs more lives. In either case, it's a waste of time to try and convert them, as I'm seeing on DP. We should just focus on giving facts to those who will hear them; time is precious and this fight is a long one.

 

[James D Hill]

Most of the opposition isn't seeing the big picture of how Marijuana legalization effects Alcohol consumption. If it's legalized/decriminalized/regulated, Marijuana use among adults will increase. That's a given, all studies of places where the laws were changed have confirmed that adult use increases. Teen use decreased every time, due to the effect you mentioned, but teens don't drive for the most part. So, it's definitely conceivable that legalization will increase traffic deaths due to Marijuana. I'd appreciate some solid trend data, but I take it for fact that Marijuana/DWI will increase, along with the relevant death rates.

But, it reduces Alcohol consumption and Alcohol/DWI. That's the big concept that they're not seeing, or atleast not accepting. Alcohol, per user, is around 5 times as likely to cause a traffic death via DWI. Meaning if even just one person stops drinking and driving for every 5 people that start stoning and driving, the Death rate will not increase. All studies have not only shown that to be true, but that even more than just 1 person stops Drinking and driving for every 5 Stoned drivers. That Decreases the total death rate due to all DWI's.

Less people die at the end of the day, and that's the big picture. People that have lost loved ones to stoned driving will probably never accept the big picture, so it's not really a matter of giving them facts or studies. They can't let themselves give up their war, even if it costs more lives. In either case, it's a waste of time to try and convert them, as I'm seeing on DP. We should just focus on giving facts to those who will hear them; time is precious and this fight is a long one.

You have a good point my friend. Pot gets you high much quicker than booze unless you chug the booze. Thus you already have a buzz when you start drinking so you do not drink so fast or as much. Also you can drive much better high than drunk so pot is a better drug to go hiking,swimming,go see a movie or anything else that migh involve driving later on. The drug war is bad policy in support of bad law.

 

[James D Hill]

Law and order crap keeps you safe for the most part from a lawless society, in case you've forgotten. Typical liberal, if YOU like laws then they are great. If you don't then whine, whine, whine.

Instead of pissing and moaning about it on a daily basis, why don't you do something to repeal the law like those who liked to drink did to repeal the 18th Amendment to the Constitution.

.

Dude we have in Washington and Colorado. It is also comming in Cal and Oregon. The drug war is bad policy in support of bad law and you know it. We put up with booze and cigarettes killing over a half million people a year and don't throw people in prison for those drugs so why the drug war in the first place.

 

[James D Hill]

Law and order crap keeps you safe for the most part from a lawless society, in case you've forgotten. Typical liberal, if YOU like laws then they are great. If you don't then whine, whine, whine.

Instead of pissing and moaning about it on a daily basis, why don't you do something to repeal the law like those who liked to drink did to repeal the 18th Amendment to the Constitution.

.

The thing of it is you law and order conservatives are the ones who scream the loudest when we try to change bad laws like the drug laws. Once it becomes law the right fights to defend the status quo every time and you know that unles of cource it is the ACA.

 

[sbrettt]

Law and order crap keeps you safe for the most part from a lawless society, in case you've forgotten. Typical liberal, if YOU like laws then they are great. If you don't then whine, whine, whine.

Instead of pissing and moaning about it on a daily basis, why don't you do something to repeal the law like those who liked to drink did to repeal the 18th Amendment to the Constitution.

.

I don't know if he was personally involved, but Colorado and Washington are the first steps in an unstoppable march towards justice for Americans who just like to get high. People are taking steps to make America a little more free and it's looking like those who go against liberty are losing in this area.

 

[James D Hill]

Let's go back to Prohibition!!!!!! That'll get the drunk drivers off the road right?

It's harder for someone underage to get alcohol, because it's legal, than weed. There is no alcohol dealers on the streets really; if legalizing takes the drugs from the dealers and into the hands of legitimate business owners than that would make the roads safer.

All it takes to make booze is juice,suger and yeast. Al it takes to grow pot is a tall fence and a mean dog. All it takes to grow mushrooms is a kit from you can buy from High times or on the web. People will get high one way or another so what is wrong with a little pragmatic common sense? Grat point my friend.

 

[James D Hill]

Apparently you're unaware but federal law preempts state law. And why would Obama, a federal law breaker and former stoner, want to uphold his constitutional responsibilities as POTUS, that U.S. laws are enforced?

And what would you moral crusaders do? Send in the troops?

 

[James D Hill]

Actually yes I can say it is safe in nearly every way.

SAFER - Marijuana vs. Alcohol

Great post. Thank you.

 

[sbrettt]

All it takes to make booze is juice,suger and yeast. Al it takes to grow pot is a tall fence and a mean dog. All it takes to grow mushrooms is a kit from you can buy from High times or on the web. People will get high one way or another so what is wrong with a little pragmatic common sense? Grat point my friend.

Glad to see another stoner in the mix. :mrgreen:

 

[SMTA]

And what would you moral crusaders do? Send in the troops?

Nope - just throw in more weed so you can toke yourselves to death.

 

[Blue_State]

Nope - just throw in more weed so you can toke yourselves to death.

Unlikely. You have a better chance of smoking cigarettes to death or drinking alcohol to death.

Not only that, you are more likely to make a poor decision which can lead to death on alcohol.