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Obama and Holder adress unfair drug sentencing laws.

James D Hill

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So if you buy a bag of cocaine it is one crime but if you cook it down in ammonia it is a 20 year minimum sentence. That is wrong. We have 2.3 million people behind bars for non voilent crimes at a cost of 25 billion a year. It is time for a change and the president and Eric Holder are adressing it even though they know the redneck house would never even bring it to a vote.
 
Prisons are big biusness. I think the illigal drug industry and the prison industy are truly synergist and have needed each other for years. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
So if you buy a bag of cocaine it is one crime but if you cook it down in ammonia it is a 20 year minimum sentence. That is wrong. We have 2.3 million people behind bars for non voilent crimes at a cost of 25 billion a year. It is time for a change and the president and Eric Holder are adressing it even though they know the redneck house would never even bring it to a vote.
 
Cool.

Now if we could only get President Obama to stop with the extrajudicial execution of American citizens via Hellfire missile we'd be golden!
 
Cool.

Now if we could only get President Obama to stop with the extrajudicial execution of American citizens via Hellfire missile we'd be golden!

The drug laws must change.
 
The drug laws must change.

And the minute they do, you'll be moaning and groaning about poor people being addicted and needing government supports, government detoxing, government housing while they rehab. Like liberals here in Canada, you'll be pushing for "safe" injection sites funded by the government to hand out free needles and to oversee the poor babies inject themselves "safely".

Liberals only exist for the sole purpose of creating classes of needy people they can then create bureaucracies that service those needy people.
 
So if you buy a bag of cocaine it is one crime but if you cook it down in ammonia it is a 20 year minimum sentence. That is wrong. We have 2.3 million people behind bars for non voilent crimes at a cost of 25 billion a year. It is time for a change and the president and Eric Holder are adressing it even though they know the redneck house would never even bring it to a vote.

It's not just the "redneck house" that's the problem here and Holder is entirely two-faced in this latest pronouncement of his. The POTUS and the Atty Gen have all the necessary power and ability to stop the drug raids of the medical dispensaries and medical grows in several states. But instead they continue to conduct those raids and throw those people in jail. Hardly convincing behavior from those who say they want reform.
 
And the minute they do, you'll be moaning and groaning about poor people being addicted and needing government supports, government detoxing, government housing while they rehab. Like liberals here in Canada, you'll be pushing for "safe" injection sites funded by the government to hand out free needles and to oversee the poor babies inject themselves "safely".

Liberals only exist for the sole purpose of creating classes of needy people they can then create bureacracies that service those needy people.

It costs less money for rehab than it does prisons, courts, appeals, etc.

Sorry, but the drug war is a failure.
 
It costs less money for rehab than it does prisons, courts, appeals, etc.

Sorry, but the drug war is a failure.

The war on drugs is a failure for many reasons, but not because it tried to keep dangerous drugs out of the bodies of our young people.
 
The drug laws must change.

I don't disagree.

I just find it laughable that you'd hold Holder and President Obama up as paragons of law and order.

It is time for a change and the president and Eric Holder are adressing it even though they know the redneck house would never even bring it to a vote.

Kinda like the redneck House that originally passed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986?

And the redneck president back in 1993/94 pushing states toward "three strikes" laws?
 
The war on drugs is a failure for many reasons, but not because it tried to keep dangerous drugs out of the bodies of our young people.

It's made crime bigger and drug cartels richer and more powerful. And in the end failed to keep drugs out of people.
 
It's made crime bigger and drug cartels richer and more powerful. And in the end failed to keep drugs out of people.

The war on drugs didn't make crime bigger - criminals made crime bigger.

Are you advocating that we make speeding legal or eliminate speed limits? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra speed and may crash, but the vast majority of people would be fine and we could remove the hundreds of thousands of traffic cops on the road, eliminate most traffic courts, etc.

Are you advocating that we move prescription medication OTC? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra responsibility of choosing their own drugs on a doctor's advice or may even avoid visiting a doctor and just go to the drug store and make their own choices, but the vast majority of people would be okay and we could eliminate all the costs associated with doctors prescribing drugs and pharmacists filling prescriptions greatly reducing healthcare costs.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.
 
The war on drugs didn't make crime bigger - criminals made crime bigger.

Are you advocating that we make speeding legal or eliminate speed limits? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra speed and may crash, but the vast majority of people would be fine and we could remove the hundreds of thousands of traffic cops on the road, eliminate most traffic courts, etc.

Are you advocating that we move prescription medication OTC? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra responsibility of choosing their own drugs on a doctor's advice or may even avoid visiting a doctor and just go to the drug store and make their own choices, but the vast majority of people would be okay and we could eliminate all the costs associated with doctors prescribing drugs and pharmacists filling prescriptions greatly reducing healthcare costs.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

Yes, I do think we should remove those. And yes, prohibition DOES and HAS made crime bigger by giving them a market. The same was done with prohibition with alcohol. So quickly do people remember the failure of that one.
 
It is a good idea and long overdue... but somehow I think that they will screw it up.
 
Yes, I do think we should remove those. And yes, prohibition DOES and HAS made crime bigger by giving them a market. The same was done with prohibition with alcohol. So quickly do people remember the failure of that one.

Put the blame where it belongs. The ones that made crime bigger and increased the market are the people that need drugs to have a life, the one's that need drugs to try to hide behind some kind of false reality. Don't blame the Government or the drug gangs, the fault is squarely on those that have to have their alternate reality to deal with life.
 
Put the blame where it belongs. The ones that made crime bigger and increased the market are the people that need drugs to have a life, the one's that need drugs to try to hide behind some kind of false reality. Don't blame the Government or the drug gangs, the fault is squarely on those that have to have their alternate reality to deal with life.

"Even though I created the ideal environment for rats and cockroaches, I'm not to blame for getting the building condemned. Its clearly the rats and cockroaches that are at fault here. Don't blame me for them eating and breeding in the mess I created and never cleaned up."
 
"Even though I created the ideal environment for rats and cockroaches, I'm not to blame for getting the building condemned. Its clearly the rats and cockroaches that are at fault here. Don't blame me for them eating and breeding in the mess I created and never cleaned up."

I'm not real sure what point you're trying to make unless you mean that rats, cockroaches, and druggies all fit together, if that's the case then you're right.
 
I'm not real sure what point you're trying to make unless you mean that rats, cockroaches, and druggies all fit together, if that's the case then you're right.


We've got decades of evidence showing that prohibition does not work. Attempting to blame human nature instead of the ill conceived laws is embarrassingly stupid.
 
We've got decades of evidence showing that prohibition does not work. Attempting to blame human nature instead of the ill conceived laws is embarrassingly stupid.

Let me see if I get this right. You want to absolve the drug takers from any responsibility and blame the Government, the Laws and the non-drug takers for all the druggies problems. The simple fact is if people did not use drugs there would be no drug gangs nor a war on drugs. That all lays clearly at the feet of the druggies.
 
Put the blame where it belongs. The ones that made crime bigger and increased the market are the people that need drugs to have a life, the one's that need drugs to try to hide behind some kind of false reality. Don't blame the Government or the drug gangs, the fault is squarely on those that have to have their alternate reality to deal with life.


On the stupid government. Its all about giving them power. Im sure Mexico is grateful for our help in this war.
 
Let me see if I get this right. You want to absolve the drug takers from any responsibility and blame the Government, the Laws and the non-drug takers for all the druggies problems. The simple fact is if people did not use drugs there would be no drug gangs nor a war on drugs. That all lays clearly at the feet of the druggies.

Einstein once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The drug war has not worked. It is more than an absymal failure. It has been used as a tool to further eroding our ever shrinking civil liberties and fuel an ever growing police state. It is in all important respects a carbon copy of prohibition with the exception that with prohibition eventually someone woke up and realized that it was stupid idea.

People have used drugs since the day - about 6000 years ago - that someone in ancient Sumer found out that they could get a nice buzz off of drinking rainwater that collected in a barrel of wheat. You honestly think that's ever going to change? Policies and laws that do not account for human nature are stupidity defined and are doomed to failure. Might as well as pass law forbidding the sun to rise. It is that simple.

If you don't want people to take drugs that you think are bad for them convince them of that fact. You'll get better results, it won't cost nearly as much and those of us who actually care about living in a free society will sleep easier.

Holder is a good start. The Feds though only have a small share of the drug incarcerations. The states have to get off the stick.

We lock up more people per capita than any place else in the world. That is a sad statement on this society that I, for one would like to see changed. I'm not holding my breath.
 
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And the minute they do, you'll be moaning and groaning about poor people being addicted and needing government supports, government detoxing, government housing while they rehab. Like liberals here in Canada, you'll be pushing for "safe" injection sites funded by the government to hand out free needles and to oversee the poor babies inject themselves "safely".

Liberals only exist for the sole purpose of creating classes of needy people they can then create bureaucracies that service those needy people.

I have news for you my friend. Poor people are already addicted to booze and drugs just like rich people. The human animal is by nature a glutton and that applies to food,drink and drugs.
 
It's not just the "redneck house" that's the problem here and Holder is entirely two-faced in this latest pronouncement of his. The POTUS and the Atty Gen have all the necessary power and ability to stop the drug raids of the medical dispensaries and medical grows in several states. But instead they continue to conduct those raids and throw those people in jail. Hardly convincing behavior from those who say they want reform.

They just had one a few weeks ago in Tacoma and Seattle. It is wrong but I fear that if we had a conservative in the Whitehouse they would have sent in tanks into Washinton and Col. unless of cource they where libertarians.
 
The war on drugs didn't make crime bigger - criminals made crime bigger.

Are you advocating that we make speeding legal or eliminate speed limits? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra speed and may crash, but the vast majority of people would be fine and we could remove the hundreds of thousands of traffic cops on the road, eliminate most traffic courts, etc.

Are you advocating that we move prescription medication OTC? Sure, there'd be some people who couldn't handle the extra responsibility of choosing their own drugs on a doctor's advice or may even avoid visiting a doctor and just go to the drug store and make their own choices, but the vast majority of people would be okay and we could eliminate all the costs associated with doctors prescribing drugs and pharmacists filling prescriptions greatly reducing healthcare costs.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

First of all Canada is way more liberal on drugs than we in the states are. Second of all legalizing drugs,gambling and prostitution would take away almost all revenue from ganges and other orginized crime. I just makes good sense and freedom would ring like a bell.
 
Put the blame where it belongs. The ones that made crime bigger and increased the market are the people that need drugs to have a life, the one's that need drugs to try to hide behind some kind of false reality. Don't blame the Government or the drug gangs, the fault is squarely on those that have to have their alternate reality to deal with life.

The fact is the human animal loves to get high and they will because some capitalist will fill that need no matter what. It might as well be legal so the money goes to the right place.
 
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