Obama and Ho

[Rogue Valley]

US President Barack Obama and Vietnamese President Tran DaiQuang shake hands in Hanoi | 24 May 2016


Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

 

[X Factor]

I was half expecting this to be about Obama posing for a pic with a hooker.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

50,000 US servicemen perished because their nation betrayed them by inserting them into another nation's civil war. It had absolutely nothing to do with defending America and the blame lies 100% on our politicians during the 60's and early 70's.

The president's job is to meet with leaders of foreign nations, and seeing as how they won the war, they can proudly display any statue they damn well please, but I guess you'll whine and blame Obama for just about anything.

 

[Crovax]

50,000 US servicemen perished because their nation betrayed them by inserting them into another nation's civil war. It had absolutely nothing to do with defending America and the blame lies 100% on our politicians during the 60's and early 70's.

The president's job is to meet with leaders of foreign nations, and seeing as how they won the war, they can proudly display any statue they damn well please, but I guess you'll whine and blame Obama for just about anything.

The only way the US betrayed the servicemen was not committing to win the war.

 

[TheGoverness]

50,000 US servicemen perished because their nation betrayed them by inserting them into another nation's civil war. It had absolutely nothing to do with defending America and the blame lies 100% on our politicians during the 60's and early 70's.

The president's job is to meet with leaders of foreign nations, and seeing as how they won the war, they can proudly display any statue they damn well please, but I guess you'll whine and blame Obama for just about anything.

Well actually, I don't know if the US betrayed them per se, but they certainly inserted them into a useless war which we had no business being in. A whole bunch of American soldiers died for absolutely no reason at all.

 

[Casper]

The only way the US betrayed the servicemen was not committing to win the war.

Correct in part, if one is going to fight a war they need to ensure that they are doing so for the right reasons and fight it to win. The part that Always gets overlooked is that Ho came to the US for assistance to overthrow the dictatorship in Vietnam and we turned him away, the war could have been avoided completely if we had simply used our heads.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The only way the US betrayed the servicemen was not committing to win the war.

So you're of the opinion that America should be inserting itself into every civil war around the world and letting American servicemen bleed and die for the political quibbles of other nations? Have you ever been to the Vietnam memorial in DC? It's powerful. You just keep walking, and walking, and walking and at some point you just get overcome with the magnitude of it all, and now you want to tell us we should've sacrificed many more?

50,000 dead Americans with 50,000 devastated families, over something that had absolutely nothing to do with us whatsoever. If that's not betrayal, nothing is.

Well actually, I don't know if the US betrayed them per se, but they certainly inserted them into a useless war which we had no business being in. A whole bunch of American soldiers died for absolutely no reason at all.

Sending other men to die for absolutely no reason at all is pretty much the definition of a betrayal.

 

[Medusa]

US President Barack Obama and Vietnamese President Tran DaiQuang shake hands in Hanoi | 24 May 2016


Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

You were in their land,not they were in the territories of USA and it was never like a revenge for pearl harbor as in the case of bombings of hiroshima and the cold war ended! now we have new hot wars going on in the ME.It seems you dont want a peace...

 

[TheGoverness]

Sending other men to die for absolutely no reason at all is pretty much the definition of a betrayal.

I agree. I can see your point now.

 

[joG]

US President Barack Obama and Vietnamese President Tran DaiQuang shake hands in Hanoi | 24 May 2016


Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

We do business with Japan and Germany too.

 

[X Factor]

It is a little funny considering his aversion to being seen any where there are Christian symbols prominently displayed, including Catholic universities.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/obama-notre-dame-georgetown.html

 

[OrphanSlug]

Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

Without rehashing the entire mindset of western nations fighting the "war of containment" and the "Cold War," it probably is presumptuous of us to assume that the US can control all aspects of various photo-ops when visiting a host nation like this. In some cases we might be able to influence where a photo of two leaders is taken, but I bet in nations like Vietnam and even China our influence would not be so great. For Vietnam itself, that is an important leader from their past regardless of how it impacted our foreign policy.

That said we have a much more important issue to discuss. That would be what lifting a 40+ year US arms embargo against Vietnam means to the growing tensions from various disputes related to South China Sea islands and patrolling.

China and Vietnam disputes is only one aspect of the story, there are interests in this disputes for the greater area around the South China Sea involving Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Japan. Relatively recently Japan sold military ships and equipment to the Philippines and Vietnam both in order for those nations to match China aggression, who themselves upped the ante a little with new equipment of their own and a militarized island for all sorts of activities.

Now you could say that the US has role here in preventing this escalation from getting any worse, in the context of our various defense treaties and our dealings with Japan. But we have problem with lifting an arms embargo with Vietnam at the very time they are in dispute with China over these waters.

We can either discuss a photo-op in a haze of political foolishness or we can talk about a more pressing matter on a potential conflict brewing between at least 6 nations for interests in the South China Sea each with military hardware floating in and around the South China Sea all pointing weapons at each other waiting for someone to fire. Including the US by the way, we have more active patrols of this region because of China military movements as well.

Photo-op complaints or chance of conflict between multiple nations?

Ahh **** it, that takes brain power... lets bitch about a photo and go for more coffee.

 

[Tigerace117]

Correct in part, if one is going to fight a war they need to ensure that they are doing so for the right reasons and fight it to win. The part that Always gets overlooked is that Ho came to the US for assistance to overthrow the dictatorship in Vietnam and we turned him away, the war could have been avoided completely if we had simply used our heads.

When? The precursors of the Viet Cong---then called the Viet Minh, if I recall correctly---did cooperate with the OSS against Japanese forces in Indochina. But then again, we collaborated with Stalin as well back then. Now, I'm not saying Ho Chi Minh was as bad as Stalin; I'm merely pointing out that during the Second World War necessity had us making deals with some shifty characters.

The argument that the NVA and VC were some kind of freedom fighters is shifty at best considering how they were fighting for a regime which was at least as bad---at the time---as the South Vietnamese one. But then again, Ho was a master at using nationalism to support his cause, which technically he wasn't supposed to do if you were following strictly the communist version of dogma.

This was a fascinating article, for all who are interested: 8 Things Vietnam War Movies Leave Out (By an Enemy Soldier)

But all things considered the Vietnamese Communists are nowhere near as nasty as say, China had been in terms of cracking down on personal freedoms.

 

[WCH]

I was half expecting this to be about Obama posing for a pic with a hooker.

 

[Medusa]

When? The precursors of the Viet Cong---then called the Viet Minh, if I recall correctly---did cooperate with the OSS against Japanese forces in Indochina. But then again, we collaborated with Stalin as well back then. Now, I'm not saying Ho Chi Minh was as bad as Stalin; I'm merely pointing out that during the Second World War necessity had us making deals with some shifty characters.

The argument that the NVA and VC were some kind of freedom fighters is shifty at best considering how they were fighting for a regime which was at least as bad---at the time---as the South Vietnamese one. But then again, Ho was a master at using nationalism to support his cause, which technically he wasn't supposed to do if you were following strictly the communist version of dogma.

This was a fascinating article, for all who are interested: 8 Things Vietnam War Movies Leave Out (By an Enemy Soldier)

But all things considered the Vietnamese Communists are nowhere near as nasty as say, China had been in terms of cracking down on personal freedoms.

dont put yourself in the position of a judge on such international issues.you were not even alive and are still too young to judge one's defensive wars in the name of your concept of democracy'.

 

[Tigerace117]

dont put yourself in the position of a judge on such international issues.you were not even alive and are still too young to judge one's defensive wars in the name of your concept of democracy'.

:roll:

I'm fairly sure even a toddler has enough knowledge to say that what Stalin did was absolutely horrific.

South Vietnam did not want to be part of North Vietnam. That's blatantly obvious. But once North Vietnam did absorb the South they needed a counterweight against China. At first it was the Russians, but as the years went by and people healed they saw us as actually pretty decent people.

"Your concept of democracy"

Hey, without our defense of "our concept of democracy" y'all might have ended up a communist state as well.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Hey, Vietnam is one of the few nations on Earth to defeat us in a war. In my humble opinion, I hope Obama was as humble as the media portrayed him as.
I don't trust the media, so I believe the U.S. should do more to humble ourselves in the face of humanity and planet Earth.
As much as we'd like to think so; this is not our planet.

 

[FieldTheorist]

50,000 US servicemen perished because their nation betrayed them by inserting them into another nation's civil war. It had absolutely nothing to do with defending America and the blame lies 100% on our politicians during the 60's and early 70's.

The president's job is to meet with leaders of foreign nations, and seeing as how they won the war, they can proudly display any statue they damn well please, but I guess you'll whine and blame Obama for just about anything.

So you're of the opinion that America should be inserting itself into every civil war around the world and letting American servicemen bleed and die for the political quibbles of other nations? Have you ever been to the Vietnam memorial in DC? It's powerful. You just keep walking, and walking, and walking and at some point you just get overcome with the magnitude of it all, and now you want to tell us we should've sacrificed many more?

50,000 dead Americans with 50,000 devastated families, over something that had absolutely nothing to do with us whatsoever. If that's not betrayal, nothing is.

^ This ^

I generally find it appalling that people have the audacity to run around defending the political decisions of presidents who lead soldiers into needless deaths, all so, generally speaking, some fat old corporate investor could sleep better at night knowing that Communism wouldn't interfere in their business affairs, and then afterwords those politicians, pundits, and ideologues have the temerity to talk about "patriotism."

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It is a little funny considering his aversion to being seen any where there are Christian symbols prominently displayed, including Catholic universities.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/obama-notre-dame-georgetown.html

I guess the years if going to church does not count? Please recall rev wright

 

[Casper]

When? The precursors of the Viet Cong---then called the Viet Minh, if I recall correctly---did cooperate with the OSS against Japanese forces in Indochina. But then again, we collaborated with Stalin as well back then. Now, I'm not saying Ho Chi Minh was as bad as Stalin; I'm merely pointing out that during the Second World War necessity had us making deals with some shifty characters.

The argument that the NVA and VC were some kind of freedom fighters is shifty at best considering how they were fighting for a regime which was at least as bad---at the time---as the South Vietnamese one. But then again, Ho was a master at using nationalism to support his cause, which technically he wasn't supposed to do if you were following strictly the communist version of dogma.

This was a fascinating article, for all who are interested: 8 Things Vietnam War Movies Leave Out (By an Enemy Soldier)

But all things considered the Vietnamese Communists are nowhere near as nasty as say, China had been in terms of cracking down on personal freedoms.

Ho fell in with the communists because they were willing to help him, he himself while being socialistic in ideology was no communist, at least in the beginning. Personally I am glad to see the US and Vietnam becoming closer in relations and for me the best method to fight communist ideology is a good dose of capitalism hand in hand with a democratic form of government.

 

[beefheart]

US President Barack Obama and Vietnamese President Tran DaiQuang shake hands in Hanoi | 24 May 2016


Obama has been the US president now for eight years. This isn't his first foreign junket.

50,000 US servicemen perished fighting the Communist forces of Ho Chi Minh.

Obama and his advisers were certainly aware that Ho loomed large in this photo-op.

So what? We are friends with Germany.

Vietnam war is long over, get over it. Vietnam is a good ally, and the people are good. I've been there twice for holidays, its a great place and it has a good manufacturing economy.

Get over the past.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The only way the US betrayed the servicemen was not committing to win the war.

That is the worst way!

 

[RetiredUSN]

Well actually, I don't know if the US betrayed them per se, but they certainly inserted them into a useless war which we had no business being in. A whole bunch of American soldiers died for absolutely no reason at all.

They were betrayed, and screwed over in every way imaginable.

 

[RetiredUSN]

When you handcuff your troops while sending them into harms way, you are writing their execution orders.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan are perfect examples.

You do not win ground wars by handing out participation trophy's. You win ground wars by grinding the enemy into a greasy spot.

 

[Casper]

When you handcuff your troops while sending them into harms way, you are writing their execution orders.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan are perfect examples.

You do not win ground wars by handing out participation trophy's. You win ground wars by grinding the enemy into a greasy spot.

100% Correct, once wars are declared the civilians need to take a back seat and let those that know how to conduct them deal with their own job.