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Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Program

Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

I don't see anyreason to ban the import of things like WWII rifles, how do they differ from buying a modern hunting rifle?
Short answer, they don't. The older WWII weapons tended to be sighted rather than scoped, unless you are speaking of marksman rifles like the Springfield '03. Same calibers as many popular hunting rifles, same rate of fire, much heavier wood stocks on those weapons.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

The right wingers have finally found a welfare program they can support
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

that might be the most moronic bit of nonsense I have ever seen

rather than actually make an argument you just swallowed the administration's swill and crapped it out.

Do you have any idea how stupid it is to use the term "military grade firearms"/
Actually I feel that you're the one that's swallowing a "fact sheet" from the white house on why this is happening, and it's you that does not have a rebuttal to that reply.

And the term "military grade firearms" is used to distinguish a field of weapons that was used by the military - and may still be used in some places.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Well done Obama, solving a problem that doesn't exist.

Oh, yeah! Just like all the TRAP laws hitting the books the past couple years.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Abortion brought up in a gun control debate? Madness!

Oh, yeah! Just like all the TRAP laws hitting the books the past couple years.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Actually I feel that you're the one that's swallowing a "fact sheet" from the white house on why this is happening, and it's you that does not have a rebuttal to that reply.

And the term "military grade firearms" is used to distinguish a field of weapons that was used by the military - and may still be used in some places.


do you have a point to make or is just another bit of the silly attack on gun rights you are known for
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Obama

This man is a menace...

Not that i care from a gun regulation standpoint as it seems these people are select few who go through more scrutiny and are actually getting older more obsolete guns, but isn't this a budget issue? It seems to me this might be more of a sequestration issue being touted as a 2nd amendment issue. Though you have to be a part of a private gun club, this seems that the government is giving away free guns to people who sign up for a private club. I could be wrong because after reading it a few times I could not find anywhere that said the members actually paid for these guns. That pretty much means some private NFP is making money and basically profitably employing themselves (which is legal) while the US government faces most of the expense. If the guns are that valuable to those people, then buy them. Don't ask the government to take the expense over and give a handout, even if that expense is only administrative. However, I will give you the reality that there are many much larger programs that should come first to be cut.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

In my opinion I think that it's being done away with because we have a militia of people that trains at gun ranges and since it's chartered by the US government it's no longer needed. If people want to shoot let them shoot the guns they have at gun ranges

Why let imported military-grade firearms get to the streets? Fact Sheet:

Building on the 23 Executive Actions the President and Vice President Unveiled Last January

Last December, the President asked the Vice President to develop a series of recommendations to reduce gun violence. On January 16, 2013, they released these proposals, including 23 executive actions. With the first Senate confirmation of an ATF Director on July 31, 2013, the Administration has completed or made significant progress on 22 of the 23 executive actions. The new executive actions unveiled today build on this successful effort.

Closing a Loophole to Keep Some of the Most Dangerous Guns Out of the Wrong Hands

Current law places special restrictions on many of the most dangerous weapons, such as machine guns and short-barreled shotguns. These weapons must be registered, and in order to lawfully possess them, a prospective buyer must undergo a fingerprint-based background check.
However, felons, domestic abusers, and others prohibited from having guns can easily evade the required background check and gain access to machine guns or other particularly dangerous weapons by registering the weapon to a trust or corporation. At present, when the weapon is registered to a trust or corporation, no background check is run. ATF reports that last year alone, it received more than 39,000 requests for transfers of these restricted firearms to trusts or corporations.
Today, ATF is issuing a new proposed regulation to close this loophole. The proposed rule requires individuals associated with trusts or corporations that acquire these types of weapons to undergo background checks, just as these individuals would if the weapons were registered to them individually. By closing this loophole, the regulation will ensure that machine guns and other particularly dangerous weapons do not end up in the wrong hands.

Keeping Surplus Military Weapons Off Our Streets

When the United States provides military firearms to its allies, either as direct commercial sales or through the foreign military sales or military assistance programs, those firearms may not be imported back into the United States without U.S. government approval. Since 2005, the U.S. Government has authorized requests to reimport more than 250,000 of these firearms.
Today, the Administration is announcing a new policy of denying requests to bring military-grade firearms back into the United States to private entities, with only a few exceptions such as for museums. This new policy will help keep military-grade firearms off our streets.
I would almost give your post some credence if you knew anything about what a M1 Garand or M1 carbine is.
Clearly you dont.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Not that i care from a gun regulation standpoint as it seems these people are select few who go through more scrutiny and are actually getting older more obsolete guns, but isn't this a budget issue? It seems to me this might be more of a sequestration issue being touted as a 2nd amendment issue. Though you have to be a part of a private gun club, this seems that the government is giving away free guns to people who sign up for a private club. I could be wrong because after reading it a few times I could not find anywhere that said the members actually paid for these guns. That pretty much means some private NFP is making money and basically profitably employing themselves (which is legal) while the US government faces most of the expense. If the guns are that valuable to those people, then buy them. Don't ask the government to take the expense over and give a handout, even if that expense is only administrative. However, I will give you the reality that there are many much larger programs that should come first to be cut.
Has nothing to do with sequestration. And everything to do with Obama being the most anti gun anti 2A president ever elected.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

The right wingers have finally found a welfare program they can support

How is it welfare? People with means would be buying these guns. Not some government tit sucking low life that wont work.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

I would almost give your post some credence if you knew anything about what a M1 Garand or M1 carbine is.
Clearly you dont.

as I said, he gobbled down the Obama swill and then squirted out the same old shinola
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

It shows what a POS that clown is. How many Garands have ever ended up on the street. anyone who used to claim that the Turd in chief is not anti gun can no longer make this claim

Most sissy assed gang bangers probably couldnt pick on up off the floor.
Let alone fire one without dislocating their shoulder.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Well the CMP was started back in 1903, back in the days of mass conscript armies where the Infantry was the predominate arm of the military. Massed infantry assaults with huge manpower requirements were the order of the day. It was to pre-train the inductees on basic marksmanship in order to turn out cannon fodder, not snipers.

I'd say the day of any need for a government sponsored marksmanship training of military aged youth in order to quickly gin up a massive infantry heavy military is far behind us. today far more soldiers are civilians who learned to salute rather than grunts, the actual number of shooters is quite low and not a strain on the military to produce.

I don't see why the NRA can't take over the civilian marksmanship program- it stopped being the CMP long ago. The NRA already sponsors a goodly number of matches and has range connections across the nation. Why can't the NRA import and oversee the distribution of Garands?

I would think most would want the government out of the way on civilian marksmanship- with all the 'gun-grabbing' talk that flows so freely.
As usual you have completely missed the point.
Who cares what organization was going to bring them back. Your hero Obama put a stop to it.
For no other reason to grandstand on the rights of Americans.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

As usual you have completely missed the point.
Who cares what organization was going to bring them back. Your hero Obama put a stop to it.
For no other reason to grandstand on the rights of Americans.

One of the most amusing bits of pretzel twisted equivocation that appears on this board comes from people who

1) worship Obama or

Hate the conservatives

and

2) pretend to be pro gun or

Deny being anti gun


They have to lie and prevaricate to deny being anti gun while not agreeing with the patent fact that Obama and his minions are major league gun rights haters
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

no what is is showing those who have constantly engaged in cyber-fellation of Obama and claimed that he wasn't anti gun, that they were either stupid, ignorant or just plain dishonest. there is no way to justify what the Oval Office clown in chief has done as being anything other than clearly bent on destroying shooting sports in this country I guess its really tough for those who have their lips firmly on the posterior of this president and who also claim that they respect gun owners' rights in this nation.

And we are shown there are those who strut and rant with no real facts to support their claims other than what they think might happen.

Ending the 501 that took over for the CMP will not destroy shooting sports :roll:

I am amazed those who claim the federal government can't run anything well think this is successful. The original CMP was an attempt to prepare a base of young men who could handle military weapons so the mass conscript armies of that day (1904) had a cadre of marksmen. I'd say the CMP never really achieved that goal and has not improved the civilian participation in shooting sports at all.

I have shot in major rifle comps across the nation and quite a bit in the Texoma area. I have yet to see a CMP rifle on the firing line. Service Rifle uses a highly tweeked weapon that leaves the CMP fodder in the dust. According to NRA High Power rules if three(3) shooters sign up in a category they can open a special class for them. I know this because in the days before F/tr we got a bipod class opened at the shoots we attended and several times sling/optic shooters got their own class.

But I have NEVER seen a CMP class EVER. The OKC gun club has garand matches, maybe once a year and my cousin shoots in those from time to time... I guarantee you there are no CMP rifles in that mix!

So if the dribble, blather and rote vague prancing can be dispensed with we can have a discussion on just how effective the CMP/501 corporation program has really been in promoting shooting sports in this country.

I'd say it has been a failure in it's stated goal, first as a pre-training program for military aged men and second to promote shooting sports in the USofA.

It has given a few never gonna serve their country a chance to fondle what the soldiers use/used- I guess a few wannabee actors could use a source of weapons to play army on a few weekends a month (can't airsoft take care of that?)- but the program failed in any of the goals many claim it was created to meet.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

So you have no real answer as usual, just attack the poster. Fail on your part.

How biased of you...I gave the real response, all he could do was deflect, then of course later his classic oral sex, and butt sniffing rant :roll: ... typical turtle, can't debate just fling rote rhetoric...

But you see what you want to see....:doh
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

How biased of you...I gave the real response, all he could do was deflect, then of course later his classic oral sex, and butt sniffing rant :roll: ... typical turtle, can't debate just fling rote rhetoric...

But you see what you want to see....:doh

BS, I have asked you and a few other rights takers just what the problem would be to bring those guns back and got nothing.
People like you and the president just hate that we have certain rights in this country and the desire to exersize them.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

And we are shown there are those who strut and rant with no real facts to support their claims other than what they think might happen.

Ending the 501 that took over for the CMP will not destroy shooting sports :roll:

I am amazed those who claim the federal government can't run anything well think this is successful. The original CMP was an attempt to prepare a base of young men who could handle military weapons so the mass conscript armies of that day (1904) had a cadre of marksmen. I'd say the CMP never really achieved that goal and has not improved the civilian participation in shooting sports at all.

I have shot in major rifle comps across the nation and quite a bit in the Texoma area. I have yet to see a CMP rifle on the firing line. Service Rifle uses a highly tweeked weapon that leaves the CMP fodder in the dust. According to NRA High Power rules if three(3) shooters sign up in a category they can open a special class for them. I know this because in the days before F/tr we got a bipod class opened at the shoots we attended and several times sling/optic shooters got their own class.

But I have NEVER seen a CMP class EVER. The OKC gun club has garand matches, maybe once a year and my cousin shoots in those from time to time... I guarantee you there are no CMP rifles in that mix!

So if the dribble, blather and rote vague prancing can be dispensed with we can have a discussion on just how effective the CMP/501 corporation program has really been in promoting shooting sports in this country.

I'd say it has been a failure in it's stated goal, first as a pre-training program for military aged men and second to promote shooting sports in the USofA.

It has given a few never gonna serve their country a chance to fondle what the soldiers use/used- I guess a few wannabee actors could use a source of weapons to play army on a few weekends a month (can't airsoft take care of that?)- but the program failed in any of the goals many claim it was created to meet.

1) How would you know whether someone else's rifle came from the CMP or not?

2) Why would it matter if you've never seen someone use a CMP rifle at the shooting events you've attended? What is the relevance there?
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

And we are shown there are those who strut and rant with no real facts to support their claims other than what they think might happen.

Ending the 501 that took over for the CMP will not destroy shooting sports :roll:

I am amazed those who claim the federal government can't run anything well think this is successful. The original CMP was an attempt to prepare a base of young men who could handle military weapons so the mass conscript armies of that day (1904) had a cadre of marksmen. I'd say the CMP never really achieved that goal and has not improved the civilian participation in shooting sports at all.

I have shot in major rifle comps across the nation and quite a bit in the Texoma area. I have yet to see a CMP rifle on the firing line. Service Rifle uses a highly tweeked weapon that leaves the CMP fodder in the dust. According to NRA High Power rules if three(3) shooters sign up in a category they can open a special class for them. I know this because in the days before F/tr we got a bipod class opened at the shoots we attended and several times sling/optic shooters got their own class.

But I have NEVER seen a CMP class EVER. The OKC gun club has garand matches, maybe once a year and my cousin shoots in those from time to time... I guarantee you there are no CMP rifles in that mix!

So if the dribble, blather and rote vague prancing can be dispensed with we can have a discussion on just how effective the CMP/501 corporation program has really been in promoting shooting sports in this country.

I'd say it has been a failure in it's stated goal, first as a pre-training program for military aged men and second to promote shooting sports in the USofA.

It has given a few never gonna serve their country a chance to fondle what the soldiers use/used- I guess a few wannabee actors could use a source of weapons to play army on a few weekends a month (can't airsoft take care of that?)- but the program failed in any of the goals many claim it was created to meet.

So you know the origins of every rifle at every shoot you have been to. Calling BS on that.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

BS, I have asked you and a few other rights takers just what the problem would be to bring those guns back and got nothing.
People like you and the president just hate that we have certain rights in this country and the desire to exersize them.

Oh I answered that in another post, just how many more Garands do you think are still overseas? just what condition do you think these weapons are in? I'd say the ranting over bringing 'em back home is far more posturing than any practical gain. As I said in another post, the CMP weapons disappear in the vast numbers of privately held weapons. I never see them at any match i attend and since the program in it's various forms was to pretrain massed conscripts and later to promote shooting sports the CMP/501 corp has been a failure. (Just why do you think THIS government program was a success when Cons constantly claim the Government can't do a damned thing correctly?):confused:

Now you don't know me from Adam's alley cat. I do exercise my right to keep and bear a great deal. Not pretending to be a neighborhood watch big little man. Not as an online ranter. most days my LTR is in my truck as I make my rounds. Most weeks I shoot 40 to 50 rounds, a few at feral hogs or coyotes, most practicing various positions and holds.

So I do a lot more than just desire .... :2wave:
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Oh I answered that in another post, just how many more Garands do you think are still overseas? just what condition do you think these weapons are in? I'd say the ranting over bringing 'em back home is far more posturing than any practical gain. As I said in another post, the CMP weapons disappear in the vast numbers of privately held weapons. I never see them at any match i attend and since the program in it's various forms was to pretrain massed conscripts and later to promote shooting sports the CMP/501 corp has been a failure. (Just why do you think THIS government program was a success when Cons constantly claim the Government can't do a damned thing correctly?):confused:

Now you don't know me from Adam's alley cat. I do exercise my right to keep and bear a great deal. Not pretending to be a neighborhood watch big little man. Not as an online ranter. most days my LTR is in my truck as I make my rounds. Most weeks I shoot 40 to 50 rounds, a few at feral hogs or coyotes, most practicing various positions and holds.

So I do a lot more than just desire .... :2wave:
Nice for you.
No poser here.
But I do know BS from the president when I see it. Grandstanding on OUR rights to make some moot point a political win is the height of hypocrisy.
His decision has nothing to do with the CMP, NRA, recreational shooting or organized matches.
And everything to do with furthering his antigun agenda.
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

So you know the origins of every rifle at every shoot you have been to. Calling BS on that.

Garands are easy to spot, we shoot multiple relays with a constantly changing team- IF you EVER shot a match you would know this!

Springfields the same thing, my match rifle is a mauser so we mil sup guys tend to spot each other and talk in the pits or waiting our rotation- again you would know this if you EVER attended a match. Most big matches take the week to shoot- we get to know each other and make some very good friends. the local matches are attended by the usual suspects so anyone new gets a steady stream of old hands taking a moment to meet and greet- want to encourage them to continue coming back- again you would know this if you EVER shot a match.

The action you want for a match rifle is not just some 'pick-up' rifle, the actions used come from arsenal refurbished here in the States and were sold off not through the CMP but through surplus sales back in the 60's. the numbers sold through the CMP are tiny compared to the great surplus sell-offs of days gone by.

I can certainly assure you there has never been a CMP class at ANY event I attended and I have attended matched where teams came from around the world.

Throw whatever you want- you are clueless how things work at matches...:roll:
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

Nice for you.
No poser here.
But I do know BS from the president when I see it. Grandstanding on OUR rights to make some moot point a political win is the height of hypocrisy.
His decision has nothing to do with the CMP, NRA, recreational shooting or organized matches.
And everything to do with furthering his antigun agenda.

I present facts and you present bias- you tried to say I was a 'gun'grabber because I think the CMP is yet another failed government program... like so many other knee jerk Cons you don't discuss fact, only your claims to be able to read other men's minds- which is quite often proven TOTALLY wrong when you try that with someone here.... :doh
 
Re: Obama’s new executive order will kill the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Prog

1) How would you know whether someone else's rifle came from the CMP or not?

2) Why would it matter if you've never seen someone use a CMP rifle at the shooting events you've attended? What is the relevance there?

1) we talk in the pits and during the downtime, like motor heads we ain't shy about discussing our ladies.

2) Another guy used a single example of someone buying a CMP rifle to play army on the weekends to prop up the usefulness of the program. I am using far more than one example to support the CMP program doesn't do much for serious shooting sports, more like collectors and wannabees.
 
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