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Obama’s Guantánamo push hits wall of resistance in Congress

TheDemSocialist

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President Obama’s renewed push close the Guantánamo Bay prison is hitting a wall of resistance in Congress.

Obama announced to great fanfare last month that he was restarting the effort to close the prison by transferring detainees cleared for release. He followed up this week by appointing a new envoy at the State Department to focus on the effort.

But Congress moved quickly to thwart Obama’s plans. The House voted against lifting restrictions on moving detainees to the United States and approved an amendment that prevents the president from using funds to return some detainees to Yemen

Meanwhile, an amendment from Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.) that would have lifted the restrictions on transfers from Guantanamo was rejected, with 21 Democrats and all but two Republicans voting against it.

“It’s a very big problem, I think a lot of [lawmakers] would like to not have to think about it,” said Andrea Prasow, communications director for Human Rights Watch. “I find it incredibly depressing that’s the state of our politics right now.”

Read more: Obama

Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust.
 

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Read more: Obama

Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Why would you, as an American, want to transfer citizens of another country to your country when their country of birth/citizenship doesn't want them back? If these are such model citizens, why don't the governments of the countries they come from allow them to be transferred home?
 

TheDemSocialist

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Why would you, as an American, want to transfer citizens of another country to your country when their country of birth/citizenship doesn't want them back? If these are such model citizens, why don't the governments of the countries they come from allow them to be transferred home?
Because its called justice.
What are they guilty of?
 

CanadaJohn

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Because its called justice.
What are they guilty of?

So you believe that America should accept all displaced citizens of the world into your country? I'm sure there are other people in the world who's country of birth has abandoned them or refused them re-enty - do you want them in America? Why aren't you beating the drum for those countries to take their guys back instead of trying to land them in America? Next you'll be wanting to add them to the illegal immigrant amnesty and give them a path to citizenship too.
 

TheDemSocialist

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So you believe that America should accept all displaced citizens of the world into your country?
No. Stick them on the next flight to their home country.

I'm sure there are other people in the world who's country of birth has abandoned them or refused them re-enty - do you want them in America? Why aren't you beating the drum for those countries to take their guys back instead of trying to land them in America? Next you'll be wanting to add them to the illegal immigrant amnesty and give them a path to citizenship too.

Never recommended that.. Now did i?
 

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They were taken on the battlefield where they could have been killed. Years of 3 hots and a cot in a developed world facility beats a grave. There is no reason why we should return our prisoners to the battlefield.

Where is your outrage when Americans are taken captive in Iran? Then you support Iran's sovereignty to enforce dark-age law as they wish, not sending people home.
 

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No. Stick them on the next flight to their home country.


Never recommended that.. Now did i?

Seems to me you did recommend that citizens of another country, who were swept up because they were in a war zone and a perceived threat to American and coalition soldiers, who have now been determined no longer to be a threat, should be transferred to the US mainland as a form of justice. You'll have to clarify what you call justice if you're not suggesting that they will shortly upon arrival on mainland US soil be released - how can you retain in US prison innocent people? - and if you release them, where will they go if they can't be deported to their country of birth/citizenship? Shall they all be released in Kansas?
 

TheDemSocialist

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Seems to me you did recommend that citizens of another country, who were swept up because they were in a war zone and a perceived threat to American and coalition soldiers, who have now been determined no longer to be a threat, should be transferred to the US mainland as a form of justice. You'll have to clarify what you call justice if you're not suggesting that they will shortly upon arrival on mainland US soil be released - how can you retain in US prison innocent people? - and if you release them, where will they go if they can't be deported to their country of birth/citizenship? Shall they all be released in Kansas?

They have been cleared to go home back to their home country, they should therefor return home... Dont know how much more clear I can make it.
 

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They have been cleared to go home back to their home country, they should therefor return home... Dont know how much more clear I can make it.

As I understand it, their home countries don't want them - do you suggest America invades those countries for the purpose of dropping these guys home?
 

TheDemSocialist

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As I understand it, their home countries don't want them - do you suggest America invades those countries for the purpose of dropping these guys home?

I suggest we stick them on a flight and send them home. Or how bout we work directly with these countries via diplomacy.
 

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I suggest we stick them on a flight and send them home. Or how bout we work directly with these countries via diplomacy.

I'm pretty sure that's being done on a continuing basis - I know, here in Canada, we made a deal to take back one "child" combatant but even after we made the deal agreeing to have him serve out the remainder of his sentence here, it still took several years for us to actually take him back.

I'm suggesting the very last thing you want to do is have these people moved to a facility in the continental US and then have every civil rights attorney/association fighting court battles to have them freed into American society.
 

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They have been cleared to go home back to their home country, they should therefor return home... Dont know how much more clear I can make it.

That's not true for all of them. Perhaps you could be more clear if you knew the situation.
 

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Read more: Obama

Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust. [/FONT][/COLOR]

There is nothing saying that Obama cannot close Guantánamo. All he has to do is release everyone there and not put anymore people in it. He is the President and as such can dictate where prisoners are brought to and whether to release them or not. What Congress is doing is preventing him from transporting those people to the US (or anywhere else). Something which the President does not have the power to do because there has been no bill/law/act which allows him to do so. (not that I am aware of anyways)

Now as far as it being "Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights,", goes...if it actually is that right now then you need to be looking at Obama as he is in charge of how things are to be done there. Bush is no longer President and cannot dictate that such violations can continue or not, only Obama can. What happened in the past does not mean that it is happening now, but if it is then you need to be looking at Obama, not Congress as they are not the ones responsible for human rights violations in that prison unless they passed the law allowing them to continue doing it? I haven't heard of any so can only assume that they haven't. Feel free to correct me of course. ;)
 

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I suggest we stick them on a flight and send them home. Or how bout we work directly with these countries via diplomacy.

I'll go along with giving them the plane and letting them fly it...
 

ecofarm

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you mean 86 have not been cleared?

Your statement was clearly false and not a solution for Gitmo. That's because you were operating under false assumptions. I think you could make yourself more clear if you were more informed on the situation.

You asked. That's it. Why is it hard to understand?
 

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Your statement was clearly false and not a solution for Gitmo. That's because you were operating under false assumptions. I think you could make yourself more clear if you were more informed on the situation.

You asked. That's it. Why is it hard to understand?

:lamo
Ok professor... Is the 86 # wrong?
 

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Read more: Obama

Apparently closing a facility that violates human rights, and that needed to be closed a long time ago, and barring prisoners to be transferred that have already have been transferred is "being weak on terrorism". Can we move away form these idiotic talking points and actually just close the **** hole down already? It hurts are international reputation, Islamic extremist terrorists use it as propaganda to recruit people to "fight against the great Satan", and its inherently unjust. [/FONT][/COLOR]

this appears to be a matter of funding
funding which the congress does not provide so that the president can move the prisoners to their native home for those who have been found not guilty, and to US penitentiaries where they have been found guilty or where their verdict remains undecided

so, if private funds were made available to execute the president's plans to empty and then shut down guantanamo would he be able to then execute his expressed agenda?
 
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ecofarm

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:lamo
Ok professor... Is the 86 # wrong?


The number is not the point. The point is that your solution is incomplete and thus ineffective because you were operating under false assumptions (or portraying things as they are not, with a false statement). Why can't you own that? My suggestion that you become more informed and present a more clear solution was a recommendation made at your request.
 

TheDemSocialist

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The number is not the point. The point is that your solution is incomplete and thus ineffective because you were operating under false assumptions (or portraying things as they are not, with a false statement). Why can't you own that? My suggestion that you become more informed and present a more clear solution was a recommendation made at your request.

What that we are currently in conversation with these countries? I realize that. That the president wants to close the facitliy down, but republicans are furthering making this process more hard with actions such as these?
 

ecofarm

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What that we are currently in conversation with these countries? I realize that. That the president wants to close the facitliy down, but republicans are furthering making this process more hard with actions such as these?

The US is preventing other countries from accepting their citizens? That's clearly nonsense.
 

TheDemSocialist

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The US is preventing other countries from accepting their citizens? That's clearly nonsense.

Uhh no its not.
"The House voted against lifting restrictions on moving detainees to the United States and approved an amendment that prevents the president from using funds to return some detainees to Yemen."
 

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Uhh no its not.
"The House voted against lifting restrictions on moving detainees to the United States and approved an amendment that prevents the president from using funds to return some detainees to Yemen."

What party controlled both chambers of Congress during the President's first two years in which he first tried to close Gitmo?
 

ecofarm

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Uhh no its not.
"The House voted against lifting restrictions on moving detainees to the United States and approved an amendment that prevents the president from using funds to return some detainees to Yemen."

When will you address the problem that some prisoners are not welcome in their country of origin? Your statement was false and therefore not a viable solution to anything. We must deal with reality and not your misconceptions and false assumptions.
 

TheDemSocialist

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What party controlled both chambers of Congress during the President's first two years in which he first tried to close Gitmo?

Democrats. Point being? I dont think anyone is joining in Partisan hacekry right now..
 
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