March 13, 2007
From a Rapt Audience, a Call to Cool the Hype
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Hollywood has a thing for Al Gore and his three-alarm film on global warming, “An Inconvenient Truth,” which won an Academy Award for best documentary. So do many environmentalists, who praise him as a visionary, and many scientists, who laud him for raising public awareness of climate change.
But part of his scientific audience is uneasy. In talks, articles and blog entries that have appeared since his film and accompanying book came out last year, these scientists argue that some of Mr. Gore’s central points are exaggerated and erroneous. They are alarmed, some say, at what they call his alarmism.
“I don’t want to pick on Al Gore,” Don J. Easterbrook, an emeritus professor of geology at Western Washington University, told hundreds of experts at the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America. “But there are a lot of inaccuracies in the statements we are seeing, and we have to temper that with real data.”
Hmmmm all that consensusing going on out there.
"
Kevin Vranes, a climatologist at the Center for Science and Technology Policy Research at the University of Colorado, said he sensed a growing backlash against exaggeration. While praising Mr. Gore for “getting the message out,” Dr. Vranes questioned whether his presentations were “overselling our certainty about knowing the future.”
Typically, the concern is not over the existence of climate change, or the idea that the human production of heat-trapping gases is partly or largely to blame for the globe’s recent warming. The question is whether Mr. Gore has gone beyond the scientific evidence.
“He’s a very polarizing figure in the science community,” said Roger A. Pielke Jr., an environmental scientist who is a colleague of Dr. Vranes at the University of Colorado center. “Very quickly, these discussions turn from the issue to the person, and become a referendum on Mr. Gore.”"
Hmmmm where is all that consensusing going on out there?
"“Nowhere does Mr. Gore tell his audience that all of the phenomena that he describes fall within the natural range of environmental change on our planet,” Robert M. Carter, a marine geologist at James Cook University in Australia, said in a September blog. “Nor does he present any evidence that climate during the 20th century departed discernibly from its historical pattern of constant change.”"
No concensusing going on there either.
Hmmmmmmmm
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13gore.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
I'm sorry stinger, I'm having a little trouble with your source, but where is the disagreement about AGW in your source?
Let me make it as plain as linguistically possible, I'm having no difficulty accessing the article, I'm just having much much difficulty with trying to locate anywhere in the article you've provided that states any disagreement with AGW.Having trouble with the NYT's?
jfuh said:Let me make it as plain as linguistically possible, I'm having no difficulty accessing the article, I'm just having much much difficulty with trying to locate anywhere in the article you've provided that states any disagreement with AGW.
"“Nowhere does Mr. Gore tell his audience that all of the phenomena that he describes fall within the natural range of environmental change on our planet,” Robert M. Carter, a marine geologist at James Cook University in Australia, said in a September blog. “Nor does he present any evidence that climate during the 20th century departed discernibly from its historical pattern of constant change.”"
Let me make it as plain as linguistically possible, I'm having no difficulty accessing the article, I'm just having much much difficulty with trying to locate anywhere in the article you've provided that states any disagreement with AGW.
Geologists have documented age upon age of climate swings, and some charge Mr. Gore with ignoring such rhythms. "
I'll make it as plain as linguistically possible for you....
Let me know if you need any more help with reading comprehension.
I read your article, and though yes, there are alternatives to human activity stands out, but it doesn't say that human involvement is not responsible.They question his assertions and others throughout.
For instance
"“Hardly a week goes by,” Dr. Peiser said, “without a new research paper that questions part or even some basics of climate change theory,” including some reports that offer alternatives to human activity for global warming.
Geologists have documented age upon age of climate swings, and some charge Mr. Gore with ignoring such rhythms. "
Read the article it stands on it's own.
jfuh said:I read your article, and though yes, there are alternatives to human activity stands out, but it doesn't say that human involvement is not responsible.
That's the key phrase I'm looking for, or that human involvement is irrelevant. None of those criticisms challenge the consensus. You're trying to bring out something that isn't there at all.
I read your article, and though yes, there are alternatives to human activity stands out, but it doesn't say that human involvement is not responsible.
That's the key phrase I'm looking for, or that human involvement is irrelevant. None of those criticisms challenge the consensus.
Gore doesn't present the science scientifically -
Most people who seriously care about news don't watch Faux. If it's pretty biased commentary you're looking for, then sure.Did you see Fox News this morning exposing how he is profiting off his scare tactics?
Most people who seriously care about news don't watch Faux.
If it's pretty biased commentary you're looking for, then sure.
Just FYI.
What do ratings have to do with people who want to watch news rather than commentary? Despite the fact that Fox's ratings have been dwindling as they get more and more shameless about their slant, the fact that they have decent ratings only tells me the general population cares to be entertained rather than informed. I'm not going to get into this debate; watch what you please.Pure conjecture on your part and certainly dismissed by the ratings. Most people who want both sides in an objective manner watch Fox News. How telling how you believe calling them Faux makes your argument, that the best you can do?
Yes there is a consensus and still you have not shown anywhere in your source that the consensus is invalidated.Since there is no consensus.
What does Faux news have anything to do with the thread topic in point? NYT hit piece or scientific consensus.Stinger said:He certainly pretends to so he can scare people.
Did you see Fox News this morning exposing how he is profiting off his scare tactics?
What do ratings have to do with people who want to watch news rather than commentary?
Despite the fact that Fox's ratings have been dwindling as they get more and more shameless about their slant,
the fact that they have decent ratings
only tells me the general population cares to be entertained rather than informed.
I'm not going to get into this debate; watch what you please.
Yes there is a consensus and still you have not shown anywhere in your source that the consensus is invalidated.
Then why after 2 pages now have you been unable to show any line that states there is no AGW.I just got accused of flooding the section and being obsessed simply because I continue to start threads showing the disagreement within the scientific community. And there is LOTs. There is no consensus. Which is exactly what YOUR paper of record says in their piece on Gore, there is disagreement in the scientific community not consensus.
I can't tell if you're being overly sarcastic or are just downright confused. Either way, I appreciated the laugh.Compared to other sources for such news and commentary.
Facts not in evidence and they STILL trump all other news networks because they give a more balance view.
:rofl :spinECENT, they smoke everyone else.
It tells you nothing of the sort, it clearly shows that the public wants to hear both sides and not the slanted views of the MSM and liberal outlets like CNN and MSNBC. People who have a high interest in news and politics and wish to get more than just the pablum on the network news shows turn to cable 24 hour news and the OVERWHELMING majority of people with such a high interest, showing a higher knowledge of such matters, choose FOX.
:rofl :surrender
Then why after 2 pages now have you been unable to show any line that states there is no AGW.
Not even close. The op statement you made as well as your continuous statements challenge the scientific consensus of AGW; based on what? Based on your assertion that it so says within the source which you cited.Of course that is proving a negative. The burden is on your side to prove it, you haven't. I gave you a whole article filled with scientist who agree there is no consensus that man made effects are causing climate changes out of the normal ranges. Climate changes we don't know the whys and wayfors.
Do you have any idea what scientific consensus actually is? You ignore a report from 2500 scientists from 113 countries stating that AGW is real and there is a 90% chance that the vast majority of it is caused by humans, and then take quotes from 3 people and say there's no consensus? While I agree that Gore is an alarmist and I personally am not sure so sure of my vision of the future to know what the exact consequences of AGW will be, arguing that there is no consensus regarding human-caused AGW simply shows your ignorance on what a scientific consensus is.Hmmmm all that consensusing going on out there.
Hmmmm where is all that consensusing going on out there?
No concensusing going on there either.
Hmmmmmmmm
Not even close. The op statement you made as well as your continuous statements challenge the scientific consensus of AGW; based on what?
Do you have any idea what scientific consensus actually is? You ignore a report from 2500 scientists from 113 countries stating .............
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