NY won’t enforce booster mandate for health care workers

[BirdinHand]

Irrelevant, vax supplies is not an issue.

So again, how in the hell does a health care worker get to the point of discarding the most effective form of covid mediation causing them to be a typhoid Mary for those they are supposed to care for?? Are you seriously going to say that is caused by "burnout"? They can't get vaxed because they are "burned out"?

Absurd.

Nope - their body, their choice. So odds are they’re likely working in a different field.

Doesn’t help the employee shortage (and there was already a shortage pre-Covid and then pre-mandates) which is only worse now.

So now you have healthcare workers that are burned out and healthcare systems can’t hire enough to new employees to alleviate the burnout.

Bad leadership decisions pre-Covid already had staffing levels in healthcare below where they should have been. Mandates made those staffing levels worse. And this booster mandate would have made it even worse, hence why it was dropped.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Nope - their body, their choice. So odds are they’re likely working in a different field.

Uh, this is crap from 2 standpoints, they spread covid being unvaxed and they are not working "in another field", the subject is current workers who refuse the vax being able to remain.

Doesn’t help the employee shortage (and there was already a shortage pre-Covid and then pre-mandates) which is only worse now.

HURR DURR, the actions of unvaxed HC workers caused a greater shortage, and again, how does a HC worker get to the point of causing greater levels of covid deaths for those they are supposed to care for.

So now you have healthcare workers that are burned out and healthcare systems can’t hire enough to new employees to alleviate the burnout.

Again, you keep falling into this argument that burnout causes the refusal to get vaxed, that makes no sense.

Bad leadership decisions pre-Covid already had staffing levels in healthcare below where they should have been.

Irrelevant, the topic is current HC workers refusing to get vaxed .

Mandates made those staffing levels worse.

Wrong, health care workers refusal to get vaxed caused them to be let go. You cannot justify HCWers becoming typhoid Marys.

And this booster mandate would have made it even worse, hence why it was dropped.

Read the above. This furthers the distrust of HC system.

 

[Cardinal]

I’m trying to wrap my mind around why we fired people (and some cheered) that we called heroes when they faced the first wave without PPE.

Well, let's say that (god forbid) you needed to call a rape crisis center. Would you want the person answering the phone to be a rapist?

 

[BirdinHand]

Again, you keep falling into this argument that burnout causes the refusal to get vaxed, that makes no sense.

I never said burnout caused people to not get vaxxed.

People opted not to get a vaccine.

There was a healthcare worker shortage prior to mandates. People opted not to get a vaccine - it made the shortage worse.

Anyone with half a brain knew there was a shortage, knew mandates would cause some people to leave and *magic* that’s what happened.

Mandating boosters would have caused more to leave. Making it even worse.

We can’t just magically come up with more healthcare workers - they aren’t widgets in a factory. So this problem will persist until more people are trained and educated - and hopefully that’s sooner vs. later.

Considering nursing, especially, is ridiculously hard work for mediocre compensation, I don’t think you’ll see the “burn out” alleviated any time soon.

 

[BirdinHand]

Well, let's say that (god forbid) you needed to call a rape crisis center. Would you want the person answering the phone to be a rapist?

Do they put rape crisis call centers in prisons?

This makes no sense

 

[Cardinal]

Do they put rape crisis call centers in prisons?

This makes no sense

Yes it does.

 

[BirdinHand]

Yes it does.

So the unvaccinated are equivalent to rapists?

That’s your assertion?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I never said burnout caused people to not get vaxxed.

You are lying, you brought up "burnout" in our argument of why current HCWers refuse the vax.

People opted not to get a vaccine.

The discussion is HCWers, how can a HCWer decide to become a Typhoid Mary?

There was a healthcare worker shortage prior to mandates. People opted not to get a vaccine - it made the shortage worse.

The discussion is HCWers, how can a HCWer decide to become a Typhoid Mary?

Anyone with half a brain knew there was a shortage, knew mandates would cause some people to leave and *magic* that’s what happened.

The discussion is HCWers, how can a HCWer decide to become a Typhoid Mary?

Mandating boosters would have caused more to leave. Making it even worse.

The discussion is HCWers, how can a HCWer decide to become a Typhoid Mary?

We can’t just magically come up with more healthcare workers - they aren’t widgets in a factory. So this problem will persist until more people are trained and educated - and hopefully that’s sooner vs. later.

The discussion is HCWers, how can a HCWer decide to become a Typhoid Mary?

Considering nursing, especially, is ridiculously hard work for mediocre compensation, I don’t think you’ll see the “burn out” alleviated any time soon.

The burnout is due primarily to the refusal to get vaxed, these insane HCWers are causing not only the spread of the disease, but the "burnout".

 

[BirdinHand]

You are lying, you brought up "burnout" in our argument of why current HCWers refuse the vax.

Nope - never said it.

he burnout is due primarily to the refusal to get vaxed, these insane HCWers are causing not only the spread of the disease, but the "burnout".

You’re the one saying burnout is caused by vaccine refusal.

Burnout existed PRIOR to Covid. But most people didn’t pay any attention to the staffing issues in healthcare.

Mandates made shortages worse because people left rather than get a vaccine. Be grateful it wasn’t a higher percentage.

 

[Phys251]

So the unvaccinated are equivalent to rapists?

That’s your assertion?

^ This is what a goalpost shift looks like. You do this because you are losing the argument and want to pretend you're winning.

Awaiting your ad hom whataboutism in 3...2...1...

 

[BirdinHand]

^ This is what a goalpost shift looks like. You do this because you are losing the argument and want to pretend you're winning.

Awaiting your ad hom whataboutism in 3...2...1...

Nah, I just report trolling/flaming

 

[Phys251]

Nah, I just report trolling/flaming

Or you could say that. That's two posts in a row you didn't honestly address Cardinal's point.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yep, obviously “the science” has changed (yet again).

What's this got to do with science, and by the way, are you saying that you don't think science changes????
See? You DO treat science as if it's religion, you just demonstrated that you're not CAPABLE of comprehending science. (yet again)

But this isn't about the science, it's about staffing desperation and the decision to just tough it out for a few more weeks until enough people HAVE received boosters.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're right, and I'm doing a poor job putting into words what I meant. I guess I want to know the 'why' they are no longer behind the 'booster' mandate. Why are the patients no longer a priority in regards to how protected they are from getting covid from a health care worker.

They are, but the problem is that staff burnout is cutting into staffing numbers faster than replacements can be trained AND faster than we can get staff boosted.

 

[Ethel2]

This strikes me as more of a reflection of the dire circumstances that the health industry faces than a condemnation of those in charge. This is hardly a decision of convenience.

I think it’s more of a reflection of the lower virulence of the dominant variant. If delta was still around my guess is that the mandate would stand. Vaccine mandates work. A very tiny percentage of employees are willing to sacrifice their jobs to avoid getting a safe and effective vaccine. That’s the way it has played out over and over again. But in view of the nature of the dominant variant suspending enforcement of the mandate makes sense. It’s overkill with omicron being fairly mild and having a mortality rate roughly equal to influenza.

 

[Ethel2]

I never said burnout caused people to not get vaxxed.

People opted not to get a vaccine.

There was a healthcare worker shortage prior to mandates. People opted not to get a vaccine - it made the shortage worse.

Anyone with half a brain knew there was a shortage, knew mandates would cause some people to leave and *magic* that’s what happened.

Mandating boosters would have caused more to leave. Making it even worse.

We can’t just magically come up with more healthcare workers - they aren’t widgets in a factory. So this problem will persist until more people are trained and educated - and hopefully that’s sooner vs. later.

Considering nursing, especially, is ridiculously hard work for mediocre compensation, I don’t think you’ll see the “burn out” alleviated any time soon.

“Mandating boosters would have caused more to leave. Making it even worse.”

And you know this…..how??
Where do you think they would have gone given the fact that the mandate is statewide and that their licenses are only valid in one state. Do you think they would have agreed to sell used cars instead?
NYC recently fired 1430 workers for refusing to comply with the city vaccine mandate. This represents <1% of the workforce. Similar stories played out everywhere:

N.Y.C. fires 1,430 workers, less than 1 percent of city employees, over a vaccine mandate.​

Same at UAL:

United Airlines is currently in the process of terminating its remaining US employees that are unvaccinated against COVID-19. A total of 232 employees in the US have chosen not to be vaccinated, CEO Scott Kirby told CBS Mornings, out of the airline's 67,000.

Mandates are extremely effective. The one for HC workers just wasn’t necessary because of the nature of omicron.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Nope - never said it.

Yes, you brought it up in our discussion of HCWers vax refusal.

You’re the one saying burnout is caused by vaccine refusal.

Yes, and it is logically explained why HCWer burnout is caused by general vax refusal and made worse by HCWer refual.........but you brought up

Burnout existed PRIOR to Covid.

I never said it didn't, what a dumb thing to bring up.

But most people didn’t pay any attention to the staffing issues in healthcare.

Again, another non-sequitur, another stupid thing to say.

Mandates made shortages worse because people left rather than get a vaccine.

Again, you have the horse in front of the cart, refusals by HCWers to get the vax made the staffing worse. What other HCWer requirements should we jettison to assuage the insane?

Be grateful it wasn’t a higher percentage.

This is a weird comment, this is an admission that the refusal to get vaxxed is a bad thing.

Do you think about these things you write before you post?

 

[BirdinHand]

Where do you think they would have gone given the fact that the mandate is statewide and that their licenses are only valid in one state.

Another profession, another state?

Where did the people that already left go?

 

[Cardinal]

I think it’s more of a reflection of the lower virulence of the dominant variant. If delta was still around my guess is that the mandate would stand. Vaccine mandates work. A very tiny percentage of employees are willing to sacrifice their jobs to avoid getting a safe and effective vaccine. That’s the way it has played out over and over again. But in view of the nature of the dominant variant suspending enforcement of the mandate makes sense. It’s overkill with omicron being fairly mild and having a mortality rate roughly equal to influenza.

That thinking doesn't work if the strain is less virulent but reaches a larger share of the population.

 

[BirdinHand]

This is a weird comment, this is an admission that the refusal to get vaxxed is a bad thing.

I don’t care whether people get a vaccine.

If you think healthcare is the only career choice for these individuals, you’re mistaken.

They’ll walk away from healthcare and potentially make more money elsewhere - and not have to deal with staffing shortages, scheduling issues, etc.

 

[Cardinal]

^ This is what a goalpost shift looks like. You do this because you are losing the argument and want to pretend you're winning.

Awaiting your ad hom whataboutism in 3...2...1...

It's not so much moving the goal posts as pretending not to understand how an analogy works. In other words, pretending to be stupid in order to "win" a debate.

I couldn't imagine thinking, "Hey, I'm not winning this debate, time to pretend to be stupid," but that's just how some people roll.

 

[Ethel2]

Another profession, another state?

Where did the people that already left go?

They would have to get licensed in another state. These people worked hard for their licenses. If they were forced to get vaccinated the vast majority of them would have complied-as the NYC workers did, and as the United airlines employees did. Mandates work. This one just wasn’t necessary.

 

[Ethel2]

That thinking doesn't work if the strain is less virulent but reaches a larger share of the population.

I disagree. It’s less virulent and it WAS infecting more people but cases counts, hospitalizations, and deaths are plummeting nearly everywhere. We are well past the peak of this wave.
I am a strong proponent of mandates-but only when they make sense.

 

[BirdinHand]

They would have to get licensed in another state. These people worked hard for their licenses. If they were forced to get vaccinated the vast majority of them would have complied-as the NYC workers did, and as the United airlines employees did. Mandates work. This one just wasn’t necessary.

Getting a license in another state isn't necessarily that hard. And they could also walk away from being a healthcare employee altogether.

Mandates cost employees - even if just a small percentage.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I don’t care whether people get a vaccine.

your "be glad more didn't refuse to get vaxed" is an expression, an admission of fear that the medical system could collapse if more insane HCers exist.....or are you going to argue that you don't care that the HC system collapses?

If you think healthcare is the only career choice for these individuals, you’re mistaken.

Where in the **** did I make that stupid argument? I swear, you are so desperate to distract from your nutty arguments, you create others for me!

They’ll walk away from healthcare and potentially make more money elsewhere - and not have to deal with staffing shortages, scheduling issues, etc.

I sincerely wish that HCWers who refuse to get vaxed would find another occupation instead of contributing to greater levels of deaths, burnouts and HC hesitancy.