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Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump[W:895]

sangha

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The Nunes memo dealt with FISA abuse...which first happened in Oct 2016. This thread's topic deals with non-FISA actions that happened in Jul 2016. Two different issues.
The action in July 2016 was an investigation that begun with a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos after the FBI received a report from Australia that he had known that the russians had damaging info on Clinton before the release of the hacked emails.

Why are you calling the application for a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos a non-FISA action?
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

sigh...

The FISA system has, in fact, been abused a number of times. One of which times was stopped by actions of NSA Director Rogers. The abuse happened during the Obama administration and it was stopped during the Obama administration.

Tell you what. Given your lack of knowledge, I see no point continuing this discussion.

You are dismissed.
So you came up with one example without a link and then run away, gotcha...

I'm still waiting for the names of the prosecutors who you claim have been charged with criminal activity.

A link from somewhere other then a CT right wing blog would a step toward credibility, but I'm not holding my breath...
 
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Mycroft

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The action in July 2016 was an investigation that begun with a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos after the FBI received a report from Australia that he had known that the russians had damaging info on Clinton before the release of the hacked emails.

Why are you calling the application for a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos a non-FISA action?
Wait...what? I've never heard of a FISA warrant being issue on Papa-whathisname. Do you have a link to information on that?
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

There is virtually no such thing as "FISA abuse" the patriot act gave that process unlimited powers to investigate dangers to our nation. Personally I do not think the power that they have is constitutional. However in this case we would have an entire staff of Russian oporatives in our Whitehouse. As it is we have been able to thin some of the off.
Huh ? Sure there is. In 2016, the Obama NSA self reported ( under reported) to wide spread FISC violations and abuse going all the way back to 2011

This included illegal upstream searches and unmaskings of US citizens. The ACLU called it one of the worst documented violations of the 4rth ammendment.

Here's the FISC opinion on it....
https://www.scribd.com/document/349261099/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017-4

Its hilarious when Libs call Trump a authoritarian. Obama took this Nation closer to a banana republic than any other President.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The action in July 2016 was an investigation that begun with a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos after the FBI received a report from Australia that he had known that the russians had damaging info on Clinton before the release of the hacked emails.

Why are you calling the application for a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos a non-FISA action?
WHAT FISA warrant on Papadopoulos ?
If the FBI had a FISA warrant on Papadopoulos they wouldn't have had to rely on unsubstabtiated Democrat funded oppo-research to spy on Trumps campaign for Political purposes.

Pages FISA warrant was granted with Title I authority, which gave the FBI wide ranging powers to surveill anyone or any organization Page ever came into contact with

They would have done the same with Papadopoulos's FISA warrant, but of-course no warrant was issued on him
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Wait...what? I've never heard of a FISA warrant being issue on Papa-whathisname. Do you have a link to information on that?
So you ARE talking about the Papadopoulos investigation!!

It was begun with a tip from the Australians. What was wrong about how that investigation begun?

ps - I was mistaken about the FISA warrant on him
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

So you ARE talking about the Papadopoulos investigation!!

It was begun with a tip from the Australians. What was wrong about how that investigation begun?
So...you don't have a link.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Huh ? Sure there is. In 2016, the Obama NSA self reported ( under reported) to wide spread FISC violations and abuse going all the way back to 2011

This included illegal upstream searches and unmaskings of US citizens. The ACLU called it one of the worst documented violations of the 4rth ammendment.

Here's the FISC opinion on it....
https://www.scribd.com/document/349261099/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017-4

Its hilarious when Libs call Trump a authoritarian. Obama took this Nation closer to a banana republic than any other President.
That is exactly what I was referring to when I gave my example of one such FISA abuse situation.

Furthermore, this particular situation has implications to the whole "get Trump" scheme of the Obama administration and almost got Rogers fired. Obama didn't do it because of the political risks. I think Obama will live to regret his decision.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

And why won't the guy that drunken Papa-whatshisname talked to talk to the media about it?

Video and transcript here: Did Alexander Downer meet Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos? - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
You posted the transcript of him explaining why. What part of his answer do you disagree with or believe it somehow wrong?

Beyond that - he essentially doesn't want to be a pawn in American politics - the norm in these types of things, open and sensitive investigations, is to NOT go blabbing to the press. I'd guess what he said is classified on our end, so the question you're asking is why won't he go on TV and reveal (very likely) classified information in the middle of an investigation?

We know Nunes does this as a matter of routine - he acted like a Fox News errand boy for the texts from Warner the Senate gave him in confidence - but Nunes is a lying hack and his behavior shouldn't be considered the norm.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Huh ? Sure there is. In 2016, the Obama NSA self reported ( under reported) to wide spread FISC violations and abuse going all the way back to 2011

This included illegal upstream searches and unmaskings of US citizens. The ACLU called it one of the worst documented violations of the 4rth ammendment.

Here's the FISC opinion on it....
https://www.scribd.com/document/349261099/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017-4

Its hilarious when Libs call Trump a authoritarian. Obama took this Nation closer to a banana republic than any other President.

I do agree that the court very likely is breaking the fourth amendment and not repealing the patriot act was my biggest disappointment of Obama's presidency.

I did not have time to read through a ton of redacted court documents.

What was the outcome? I would guess that they all turned out to be legal with zero repercussions.
 

Mycroft

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

So what is the issue with the Papadopoulos investigation?
I don't have any issue with any investigation. I just haven't heard of this Papa-whatshisname FISA warrant you mentioned.

Again...do you have a link with information about it?
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

You posted the transcript of him explaining why. What part of his answer do you disagree with or believe it somehow wrong?

Beyond that - he essentially doesn't want to be a pawn in American politics - the norm in these types of things, open and sensitive investigations, is to NOT go blabbing to the press. I'd guess what he said is classified on our end, so the question you're asking is why won't he go on TV and reveal (very likely) classified information in the middle of an investigation?

We know Nunes does this as a matter of routine - he acted like a Fox News errand boy for the texts from Warner the Senate gave him in confidence - but Nunes is a lying hack and his behavior shouldn't be considered the norm.
He's already a pawn. He became one when he got involved.

I agree he should keep quiet if there is classified info involved.

Nunes has never revealed classified information.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I don't have any issue with any investigation.
So the Papadopoulos was justified. I am glad we agree that there is evidence members of the Trump campaign worked with the Russians
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

So the Papadopoulos was justified. I am glad we agree that there is evidence members of the Trump campaign worked with the Russians
LOL!!

Dismissed.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I am not clear on what you are asking about exactly.

There are two main FISA warrants that we know about -- one for Carter Page and one for Papodopoulus.

The one for Page was based on, depending on who you believe, the Steele dossier or phone calls our intelligence agencies recorded of Russians discussing his possible usefulness as an agent with connections in the Trump campaign. However, this does not seem to be what is being discussed as Nunes is talking about an investigation, beginning in the summer of 2016, into the Trumps campaign possible connections to Russians. That Page FISA warrant was not applied for until Oct 2016.

So it seems --I say seems because the op refuses to state which investigation he is talking about, though he has denied this is about the Page investigation-- that this is about the investigation that began with a warrant on Papodopoulus. That warrant was based on a report from the Australians that Papodopoulus had told an Aussie diplomat --before the hacked emails had been released by WikiLeaks-- that the Russians had damaging info on Clinton.

Basically, some people are getting worked up because the report from the Aussies is not "official intelligence, whatever that means, as if it is somehow news that the investigation was begun as a result of a tip from the Aussies.
That highlights my question all along. Nunes talks about "five eyes" procedures, but as you say based on what's been reported the information clearly did NOT come from Australian intelligence services but from a diplomat who overheard a drunk guy in a bar. So I'm unclear why Nunes expected to see the "official intelligence" reports as he would if the info DID come from the Australian intelligence activities. What in the hell is "official intelligence" anyway? What's the difference between "intelligence" and "official intelligence?" Sounds made up to me.

With Nunes, the assumption has to be he's either lying or telling half-truths in a way that function as a lie, to protect Trump. So my guess is this is a big nothing - there was no "official" intelligence because of the way the information was discovered - drunk guy in a bar. No scandal, or break in procedure.

BTW, as always, I was disappointed in Maria B. there. I quit paying attention to her years ago when she acted as the PR arm of corporate chieftains appearing on CNBC. Like then, with Nunes she played her role well, including a breathless question about HILLARY!!! pulling the strings behind the scenes on all this. She and Nunes were playing a game of tee-ball - she set the questions up like a PR pro. So we learned exactly nothing from her questions except what talking points they'd agreed on before the "interview."
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

LOL!!

Dismissed.
Yes, EXACTLY!!!

Claims that there was anything wrong with the papadopoulos investigation should be dismissed as nonsense promoted by patisan hacks
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

He's already a pawn. He became one when he got involved.

I agree he should keep quiet if there is classified info involved.

Nunes has never revealed classified information.
I'll ask again - what part of his answer don't you accept? Saying "he's already a pawn" isn't an answer. If he starts doing interviews at this point revealing what he told FBI or whoever, he's thrusting himself into the middle of our political mess and his stated reason for not doing so is he doesn't see how any good can come of that for Australia. Well, how will this diplomat help Australia by making public all the details of what he heard, who he told, when, where, etc.?

Yeah, he did - the "Nunes memo" included classified information. And it seems highly likely Nunes or someone with his approval got the Warner texts and walked them over to Fox News like a courier. Someone on the House "Intelligence" committee did at least - the Senate handed the info over and 3 or 4 days later it was on Hannity, with markings that provided the Senate confirmation it was the documents they gave the House that were leaked.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

LOL!!

Dismissed.
It's amusing how easily you retreat...

Or more accurately TAP OUT...
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

That highlights my question all along. Nunes talks about "five eyes" procedures, but as you say based on what's been reported the information clearly did NOT come from Australian intelligence services but from a diplomat who overheard a drunk guy in a bar.
Exactly
So I'm unclear why Nunes expected to see the "official intelligence" reports as he would if the info DID come from the Australian intelligence activities.
If Aussie intel agencies had provided any info, it would have been contrary to the Five Eyes policy of not spying on each others citizens. I believe Nunes was fishing around hoping to find such spying in order to undermine the investigation into Papodopoulus --and the FBI, in general-- similar to what he tried to do with the Page investigation.

What in the hell is "official intelligence" anyway? What's the difference between "intelligence" and "official intelligence?" Sounds made up to me.
It is made up. If you Google the phrase, all you get is links to an album by del Ray and articles about Nunes. Nunes is the first person in history to talk about official intelligence

With Nunes, the assumption has to be he's either lying or telling half-truths in a way that function as a lie, to protect Trump. So my guess is this is a big nothing - there was no "official" intelligence because of the way the information was discovered - drunk guy in a bar. No scandal, or break in procedure.
Of course.

That is why MyCroft wont explain what official intelligence is, what investigation Nunes is talking about, or what was wrong with that investigation.

BTW, as always, I was disappointed in Maria B. there. I quit paying attention to her years ago when she acted as the PR arm of corporate chieftains appearing on CNBC. Like then, with Nunes she played her role well, including a breathless question about HILLARY!!! pulling the strings behind the scenes on all this. She and Nunes were playing a game of tee-ball - she set the questions up like a PR pro. So we learned exactly nothing from her questions except what talking points they'd agreed on before the "interview."
Eaxctly! Nunes set it up by talking about official intelligence, which should NOT have been used, and then Barti acted as if the absence of official intelligence was some sort of scandal. Then, our resident rightwing hacks ran with it without ever once saying what wrongdoing has been discovered.

No Official Intelligence?

So what?
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

I'll ask again - what part of his answer don't you accept? Saying "he's already a pawn" isn't an answer. If he starts doing interviews at this point revealing what he told FBI or whoever, he's thrusting himself into the middle of our political mess and his stated reason for not doing so is he doesn't see how any good can come of that for Australia. Well, how will this diplomat help Australia by making public all the details of what he heard, who he told, when, where, etc.?



Yeah, he did - the "Nunes memo" included classified information. And it seems highly likely Nunes or someone with his approval got the Warner texts and walked them over to Fox News like a courier. Someone on the House "Intelligence" committee did at least - the Senate handed the info over and 3 or 4 days later it was on Hannity, with markings that provided the Senate confirmation it was the documents they gave the House that were leaked.
The Nunes memo was redacted of all classified information.

The rest is ignored because it doesn't involved Nunes.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

It's amusing how easily you retreat...

Or more accurately TAP OUT...
Retreat?

How can MyCroft retreat when he has never actually stated what wrongdoing was perpetrated?
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

It's amusing how easily you retreat...

Or more accurately TAP OUT...
Not a retreat.

I asked more than once for information. The member declined. I quit asking.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

The Nunes memo was redacted of all classified information.
First of all, I guess you've answered your own question about why the diplomat isn't talking - read his replies in the transcript and they explain it quite well.

As to the memo, no, that's wrong. Since when are the existence of FISA warrants and the exact date an exact number were granted unclassified information? Since when is the basis for such warrants unclassified information?

The rest is ignored because it doesn't involved Nunes.
It's ignored because you can't address the point. Nunes or someone with Nunes' approval ran those texts to Fox News like an errand boy.

We're off topic anyway, but the OP was typical Nunes nonsense to start with - a perfect example of why I don't trust the guy. I haven't read every post, but can you explain to me what the difference is between "intelligence" and the apparently made up phrase, "official intelligence" and why we would have expected to see a reference to "official intelligence" in the documents?

Thanks.
 

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Re: Nunes: There Was NO OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE USED to Start DOJ Spying on Trump

Not a retreat.

I asked more than once for information. The member declined. I quit asking.
Let us list the requests for information that you have declined to respond to

1) What is official intelligence?

2) How does it differ from unofficial intelligence?

3) Which investigation is Nunes talking about?

4) Which investigation has targeted Trump?

5) What problem has Nunes identified?

6) What was "simply stunning" --as you claimed in your op-- about what Nunes said?

ps - I answered your question in post 606
 
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