Nukes: When America wanted a Soviet invasion of Japan

[swing_voter]

So Russia negotiated a treaty with America and Britain that said the Soviets could seize all the lands Japan had taken from the Russians in the 1905 war.

America very much wanted the Soviets to declare war on Japan and open another front, both Roosevelt and Truman.

Then America's stands on Soviet help changed. America no longer wanted the Soviets to invade Japan. America wanted to end the war quickly before the Soviets could invade.

The change happened right after the German surrender.

Why the Change?

 

[Tigerace117]

So Russia negotiated a treaty with America and Britain that said the Soviets could seize all the lands Japan had taken from the Russians in the 1905 war.

America very much wanted the Soviets to declare war on Japan and open another front, both Roosevelt and Truman.

Then America's stands on Soviet help changed. America no longer wanted the Soviets to invade Japan. America wanted to end the war quickly before the Soviets could invade.

The change happened right after the German surrender.

Why the Change?

The Soviets physically couldn’t invade Japan, for starters. The Soviet Pacific Fleet wasn’t large enough to enable an invasion of the home islands proper.

 

[swing_voter]

The Soviets physically couldn’t invade Japan, for starters. The Soviet Pacific Fleet wasn’t large enough to enable an invasion of the home islands proper.

There were plenty of Japanese targets in Manchuria and Korea. You don't need boats for that.

That's how the hell hole North Korea was spawned. It's a Soviet client state.

 

[Tigerace117]

There were plenty of Japanese targets in Manchuria and Korea. You don't need boats for that.

That's how the hell hole North Korea was spawned. It's a Soviet client state.

Invading Manchuria is not the same thing as invading Japan....which was your premise.

 

[Closer]

So Russia negotiated a treaty with America and Britain that said the Soviets could seize all the lands Japan had taken from the Russians in the 1905 war.

America very much wanted the Soviets to declare war on Japan and open another front, both Roosevelt and Truman.

Then America's stands on Soviet help changed. America no longer wanted the Soviets to invade Japan. America wanted to end the war quickly before the Soviets could invade.

The change happened right after the German surrender.

Why the Change?

Stalin had started welching on the Yalta agreements even before the German surrender, for one, and Truman reacted accordingly.

 

[swing_voter]

Invading Manchuria is not the same thing as invading Japan....which was your premise.

The premise is "why the change?"

 

[Jredbaron96]

So Russia negotiated a treaty with America and Britain that said the Soviets could seize all the lands Japan had taken from the Russians in the 1905 war.

America very much wanted the Soviets to declare war on Japan and open another front, both Roosevelt and Truman.

Then America's stands on Soviet help changed. America no longer wanted the Soviets to invade Japan. America wanted to end the war quickly before the Soviets could invade.

The change happened right after the German surrender.

Why the Change?

There was no change. The Soviets were already set up to declare war on Japan after Germany was taken care of. They did so in accordance with their agreed to obligations.

 

[swing_voter]

There was no change. The Soviets were already set up to declare war on Japan after Germany was taken care of. They did so in accordance with their agreed to obligations.

America wanted teh Soviets to invade Japan and then they didn't. Why the change?

 

[Tigerace117]

The premise is "why the change?"

Again, you are trying to equate two entirely different things. Invading Manchuria is not the same thing as invading the Japanese home islands.

 

[swing_voter]

Again, you are trying to equate two entirely different things. Invading Manchuria is not the same thing as invading the Japanese home islands.

Nobody cares about whether or not the Russians could invade the mainland of Japan. That's not even a remote consideration in this thread.

Post your own thread about a Russian invasion of Japan.

 

[Jredbaron96]

America wanted teh Soviets to invade Japan and then they didn't. Why the change?

The United States never asked specifically to "invade" Japan, just declare war. An invasion of the Home Islands was never a condition.

 

[swing_voter]

The United States never asked specifically to "invade" Japan, just declare war. An invasion of the Home Islands was never a condition.

That doesn't matter either. Not to the thread topic.


Why the change? Why did America enthusiastically ask the Soviets to open a second front and then switch to not wanting any Soviet involvement at all?

I think it's because the Cold War had started. America could see that the Soviets were spreading their influence but making client states out of Poland, Hungary, Estonia, etc, and America had decided that it had to stop the Soviets.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Why the change? Why did America enthusiastically ask the Soviets to open a second front and then switch to not wanting any Soviet involvement at all?

There was no change. The US never stopped asked the Soviet Union to enter the war against Japan.

 

[Tigerace117]

Nobody cares about whether or not the Russians could invade the mainland of Japan. That's not even a remote consideration in this thread.

Post your own thread about a Russian invasion of Japan.

Bud, you said, repeatedly, that “America wanted the Soviet Union to invade Japan”.

It’s not my fault you apparently you can’t handle basic English

 

[swing_voter]

Bud, you said, repeatedly, that “America wanted the Soviet Union to invade Japan”.

It’s not my fault you apparently you can’t handle basic English

*sigh*

The topic of the thread is "why the change".

I don't see how you errored, tbh. It's in the first post.

 

[Tigerace117]

*sigh*

The topic of the thread is "why the change".

I don't see how you errored, tbh. It's in the first post.

The “change“ occurred because the Soviets couldn't actually invade mainland Japan.....as I said before.

 

[Antiwar]

The US federal government and whoever was calling the shots behind the scenes wanted American militarism to be increased and other countries' militarism to decrease. I don't know if they knew this would make "America" the lone superpower, but I imagine it aligns with their goal of global dominance.

 

[Tigerace117]

The US federal government and whoever was calling the shots behind the scenes wanted American militarism to be increased and other countries' militarism to decrease. I don't know if they knew this would make "America" the lone superpower, but I imagine it aligns with their goal of global dominance.

Oh look, silly conspiracy theories. What a surprise....not.

 

[Antiwar]

Oh look, silly conspiracy theories. What a surprise....not.

What supposedly makes my statement controversial?

 

[Tigerace117]

What supposedly makes my statement controversial?

"Whoever was calling the shots behind the scenes", for starters. Babbling about "plans for global dominance" as well.

 

[Antiwar]

"Whoever was calling the shots behind the scenes", for starters. Babbling about "plans for global dominance" as well.

Does the general public know what goes on behind closed doors? Are there not levels of secrecy? Do wealthy and powerful people and corporations not heavily influence American politics?

Is the US government not the lone superpower? Please note that I specifically chose "dominance" not "domination."

Your commentary would be stronger if you didn't add hyperbolic terms such as "babbling."

 

[Tigerace117]

Does the general public know what goes on behind closed doors? Are there not levels of secrecy? Do wealthy and powerful people and corporations not heavily influence American politics?

Is the US government not the lone superpower? Please note that I specifically chose "dominance" not "domination."

Your commentary would be stronger if you didn't add hyperbolic terms such as "babbling."

Assuming that there’s some sort of secretive cabal “pulling the strings” is a conspiracy theory. Not to mention, of course, that there’s plenty of things the American people don’t need to know....for example, the identities of CIA agents.

Claiming there was some sort of plan for ”global domination” which motivated the US is, again, laughable.

Conspiracy theories are, by definition, babble.

 

[Antiwar]

Assuming that there’s some sort of secretive cabal “pulling the strings” is a conspiracy theory. Not to mention, of course, that there’s plenty of things the American people don’t need to know....for example, the identities of CIA agents.

Claiming there was some sort of plan for ”global domination” which motivated the US is, again, laughable.

Conspiracy theories are, by definition, babble.

You didn't even attempt to answer any of my very fair and reasonable questions.

I didn't say nor imply there is a secret cabal, you jumped to a conclusion, like you're prone to doing. You get a quick impression after a quick reading and you post the first reply that comes to your mind, quickly. Then you continue repeating those misrepresentations as straw man arguments, even when told you are making straw man arguments.

Slow down.

 

[Tigerace117]

You didn't even attempt to answer any of my very fair and reasonable questions.

I didn't say nor imply there is a secret cabal, you jumped to a conclusion, like you're prone to doing. You get a quick impression after a quick reading and you post the first reply that comes to your mind, quickly. Then you continue repeating those misrepresentations as straw man arguments, even when told you are making straw man arguments.

Slow down.

Lol you literally stated that “whoever was secretly calling the shots behind the scenes”. There is no secret cabal hiding in the shadows. Stop watching so much X-Files.

I hate to break it to you but repeating “strawman” over and over because you don’t like your nonsensical claims being called out is not an argument.

 

[Antiwar]

Lol you literally stated that “whoever was secretly calling the shots behind the scenes”.

No, I literally wrote:

Whoever was calling the shots behind the scenes

The People aren't privy to War Room decisions nor who actually makes what decisions, are we? Yes or no? At best we know who was there, but we really don't even know that. If you disagree, then post evidence of exactly who made what decisions in any of the various wars the US government has been involved with (to put it mildly) in the last 21 years. You can even limit it to the decisions to go to war, since Congress doesn't vote on going to wars anymore. No, we have the used and abused AUMF: Aye You MotherFers, stop killing people and destroying places!

There is no secret cabal hiding in the shadows. Stop watching so much X-Files.

I didn't say there is. I haven't watched X-Files for several decades. They must be getting old ...

I hate to break it to you but repeating “strawman” over and over because you don’t like your nonsensical claims being called out is not an argument.

... like your arguments are.

I mean, yeah, you must be right: The US government didn't want to become the most powerful economic and military force on Earth. What was I thinking?! Chuckle.