Nukes: Soviets strung the Japanese along

[swing_voter]

So the Russians and Japanese had a war in 1905 where the Japanese humiliated the Russians and took territory from them.

The Americans negotiated a peace settlement between Japan and Russia.

WWII comes along and the Japanese know they have lost. But they want a negotiated peace treaty, not an unconditional surrender.

So the Japanese ask the Russians to negotiate a peace treaty with American.

The Russians keep asking the Japanese for clarification. This goes on for months.

It gives the Japanese hope. The Japanese don't surrender, counting on the Russians talking the British and Americans into a negotiated peace settlement.

Did the Russians string the Japanese along on purpose, keeping Japan in the war?

 

[Jredbaron96]

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the Soviets were deliberately leading the Japanese on.

The USSR was not in a state of war with Japan prior to 9 August 1945, when the Soviets declared war and invaded Manchuria. In April 1945 the Soviets had already informed the Japanese that they would not be continuing the treaty. It should have been obvious to the Japanese that the Soviets were intending action against Japan, but Togo, the Foreign Minister, continued to believe that the Soviets could mediate between Japan and the US.

While the Soviets did not go out of their way to tell the Japanese "No we will not help you negotiate" directly, their actions made it rather abundantly clear and it appears that is was mostly wishful thinking on behalf of the Japanese that the Soviets could be kept from joining the war.

 

[swing_voter]

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the Soviets were deliberately leading the Japanese on.

The USSR was not in a state of war with Japan prior to 9 August 1945, when the Soviets declared war and invaded Manchuria. In April 1945 the Soviets had already informed the Japanese that they would not be continuing the treaty. It should have been obvious to the Japanese that the Soviets were intending action against Japan, but Togo, the Foreign Minister, continued to believe that the Soviets could mediate between Japan and the US.

While the Soviets did not go out of their way to tell the Japanese "No we will not help you negotiate" directly, their actions made it rather abundantly clear and it appears that is was mostly wishful thinking on behalf of the Japanese that the Soviets could be kept from joining the war.

The Japanese wanted the Soviets to negotiate an end to the war. The Japanese wanted a conditional surrender, not an unconditional surrender.

The Soviets never told the Japanese "No", we will not encourage the Americans to negotiate a conditional surrender with you.

The Soviets gave the Japanese false hope that extended the war.

Keeping the Soviets out of the war would be a part of this, of course.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Japanese intentions against the US does not prove collaboration with the USSR. While there was no love lost between the US and the USSR in dealing with the ending of the European theater of WWII it was Roosevelt just before his death who appealed to Stalin to declare war on the Japan. 3 months after the fall of Germany Russia did just that and invaded Manchuria. Japan was no more interested in dealing with the Russians while also dealing with the Pacific theater. It was not necessarily about Japan's interests in Asia near as much as their interest in controlling a large portion of the Pacific. Strategically and Militarily they were more set up for naval and island controls over dealing with a massive land grab. In the end there was also no love lost between Japan and the USSR, how that mess came to a conclusion was out of what both were far more interested in. The USSR has ambitions for dealing with Europe and the US, Japan has ambitions of their own which meant engaging the US in a manner they were unprepared for. Hence, Pearl Harbor and the start of that campaign which turned into a blood mess and resulted in atomic warfare.

The Soviets before or after WWII never "strung Japan along," all they did was keep their aim on what they really wanted.

It was historically studied what everyone really wanted over the course of the first half of the 20th century, with little evidence to the contrary

 

[swing_voter]

Sato’s scathing reply was “How much effect do you expect our statements regarding the non-annexation and non-possession of territories which we have already lost or are about to lose will have on the Soviet authorities?” He added that mere “abstract statements” on concessions, which he slammed as
“pretty little phrases devoid of all connection with reality,” would have no impact on “extremely realistic” Soviet authorities.

"Pretty Little Phrases": Japanese Diplomacy in 1945 | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans (nationalww2museum.org)

Sato was Japan's ambassador to the Soviets. He was ordered to convince the Soviets to intervene in the war and broker a peace that was favorable to Japan.

This was a desperate hope that the Japanese clinged to. It's why they didn't surrender.

Yes, that hope was completely dashed when the Soviets declared war on Japan.

 

[Closer]

The right wing was too strong for the Emperor to control; without the nukes there would have been no surrender, conditional or otherwise; they had a large army in China, the main reason FDR wanted the Soviets in the war, and the home islands were preparing to resist no matter what, including whether or not the Soviets interceded, which of course they weren't, they were hoping to grab half of Japan after we crushed them with little loss to themselves. All the Japanese were doing is trying to cause a rift in U.S.-Soviet relations. It didn't work because FDR had from the outset declared there would be nothing but complete surrender and nothing less, and Stalin agreed to it along with the other allies.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It didn't work because FDR had from the outset declared there would be nothing but complete surrender and nothing less.

As it should be.

 

[bomberfox]

The japanese far right was going to have everyone down to the last man throw themselves at this war. Traditions and codes that were reserved for the samurai were spread out which meant that most people were required to fight or face death before dishonor. This wasnt always the case even before the war.

 

[justabubba]

That the Russians could have negotiated an end to the war is absurd when recognizing that the experience of one nuclear weapon was inadequate to motivate the Japanese leadership to cease their military actions

 

[swing_voter]

That the Russians could have negotiated an end to the war is absurd when recognizing that the experience of one nuclear weapon was inadequate to motivate the Japanese leadership to cease their military actions

The Japanese where desperately trying to get the Russians to negotiate a peace deal between Japan and America.

I believe the Soviets were intentionally string the Japanese along by not saying "No we won't negotiated a peace deal for you." The Soviets kept delaying, asking for clarification.

And then the Soviets declared war on Japan. The same day the second nuke dropped, btw. And one week before the Japanese surrender.


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[vegas giants]

The Japanese where desperately trying to get the Russians to negotiate a peace deal between Japan and America.

I believe the Soviets were intentionally string the Japanese along by not saying "No we won't negotiated a peace deal for you." The Soviets kept delaying, asking for clarification.

And then the Soviets declared war on Japan. The same day the second nuke dropped, btw. And one week before the Japanese surrender.


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The Soviets declared war on Japan on the exact day they said they would. 3 months to the day the war in Germany ended. The Soviets were devastated by fighting with Germany. They had to secure that position before they could move on japan

 

[swing_voter]

The Soviet declaration of war against Japan and the Soviet invasion is what created the hell hole of North Korea, btw.