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Nuclear Fusion Breakthrough at NIF BBC Reports

Sherman123

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The BBC is reporting that sometime in late September an experiment was conducted at the Nuclear Ignition Facility (NIF) in which: The BBC understands that during an experiment in late September, the amount of energy released through the fusion reaction exceeded the amount of energy being absorbed by the fuel - the first time this had been achieved at any fusion facility in the world. This is a step short of the lab's stated goal of "ignition", where nuclear fusion generates as much energy as the lasers supply. This is because known "inefficiencies" in different parts of the system mean not all the energy supplied through the laser is delivered to the fuel. But the latest achievement has been described as the single most meaningful step for fusion in recent years, and demonstrates NIF is well on its way towards the coveted target of ignition and self-sustaining fusion.

Wow. That is amazing to hear. I remember reading articles about their confidence in the upcoming experiments back in July and August, and the guys at NIF have gotten a ton of flack for their cockiness in the past. But wow.

BBC News - Nuclear fusion milestone passed at US lab
 
I really wanted to bump this. In the grand scheme of things I'd say this has more relevance to our species than any political story of the moment.
 
I think too many have seen many such claims fall apart in recent years. This needs to be verified. Remember the faster than light neutrinos of a few years ago?
 
Regardless of whether it's ever used for energy production, IF true this is a pretty significant scientific achievement.
 
A true tokamak, will be running efficiently within 10 years, and cheap fusion power will be available to the world within 20.
 
A tokomak will be running within 10 years, and cheap fusion power will be available to the world within 20.

I assume you are referring to ITER? I thought it had a much longer time frame than that. Even when you achieve ignition you still have a long way to go to turning that into a usable commercial power plant.
 
I assume you are referring to ITER? I thought it had a much longer time frame than that. Even when you achieve ignition you still have a long way to go to turning that into a usable commercial power plant.

Dana is a nuclear scientist.
 
Dana is a nuclear scientist.

Wasn't disputing her knowledge, was only asking her a question. It's not as though there aren't a lot of different viewpoints on the timeframes for this sort of thing. But now I'd doubly like to hear the answer.
 
Wasn't disputing her knowledge, was only asking her a question. It's not as though there aren't a lot of different viewpoints on the timeframes for this sort of thing. But now I'd doubly like to hear the answer.

Dana is an old rocker. You need to lighten up. :lol:
 
Wasn't disputing her knowledge, was only asking her a question. It's not as though there aren't a lot of different viewpoints on the timeframes for this sort of thing. But now I'd doubly like to hear the answer.

The fusion part is easy. The hard part is to contain the reaction, since there is no material on earth that can hold it without melting. We are dealing with temperatures that are typically found in the sun. Therefore, the plasma must be held inside an electromagnetic field, and there's the rub. It takes lots of energy to generate one. Once the reactions are efficient to the point where the output is greater than the combined energy of the lasers that generate the reaction and the field which holds it, then you are off to the races.

NOTE to Sherman: I am not a her. I am a he, unless you think ladies have huge mustaches..... Wait, ladies DO have huge mustaches in Italy, but I'm not Italian.
 
The fusion part is easy. The hard part is to contain the reaction, since there is no material on earth that can hold it without melting. We are dealing with temperatures that are typically found in the sun. Therefore, the plasma must be held inside an electromagnetic field, and there's the rub. It takes lots of energy to generate one. Once the reactions are efficient to the point where the output is greater than the combined energy of the lasers that generate the reaction and the field which holds it, then you are off to the races.

NOTE to Sherman: I am not a her. I am a he, unless you think ladies have huge mustaches..... Wait, ladies DO have huge mustaches in Italy, but I'm not Italian.

dn17953-1_300.jpg
 
The fusion part is easy. The hard part is to contain the reaction, since there is no material on earth that can hold it without melting. We are dealing with temperatures that are typically found in the sun. Therefore, the plasma must be held inside an electromagnetic field, and there's the rub. It takes lots of energy to generate one. Once the reactions are efficient to the point where the output is greater than the combined energy of the lasers that generate the reaction and the field which holds it, then you are off to the races.

NOTE to Sherman: I am not a her. I am a he, unless you think ladies have huge mustaches..... Wait, ladies DO have huge mustaches in Italy, but I'm not Italian.

Hehe, sorry.
 
The fusion part is easy. The hard part is to contain the reaction, since there is no material on earth that can hold it without melting. We are dealing with temperatures that are typically found in the sun. Therefore, the plasma must be held inside an electromagnetic field, and there's the rub. It takes lots of energy to generate one. Once the reactions are efficient to the point where the output is greater than the combined energy of the lasers that generate the reaction and the field which holds it, then you are off to the races.

NOTE to Sherman: I am not a her. I am a he, unless you think ladies have huge mustaches..... Wait, ladies DO have huge mustaches in Italy, but I'm not Italian.

Actually if you wouldn't mind explaining what is the difference between this and full ignition?
 
I really think if we were to spend a fraction of the resources in developing a space based solar network, we wouldn't have to consume the oceans for power until the world's power consumption exceeded 155 TW of power.
 
Once again the British are late to the party. Ford has been selling the Fusion here for years. They even make a hybrid.











:lamo
 
A true tokamak, will be running efficiently within 10 years, and cheap fusion power will be available to the world within 20.

That sounds absurdly optimistic to me. Got a link or something?
 
Actually if you wouldn't mind explaining what is the difference between this and full ignition?

The difference is minor. They shine a laser with X watts of power on the fuel. The fuel absorbs a percentage of X, let's say 80%. In turn the nuclear reaction generates a certain amount of power. In this experiment, the fuel generated more energy than it was absorbing from the laser (80% of X) but was still less than the full power of the laser (X).

As far as I'm concerned it's ignition, or proof of concept at least. The fuel is producing more energy than it is consuming.

Good news, but it's still a rather small hurdle in the long list of big hurdles. That being said, nuclear fusion is absolutely achievable and I have no doubt it will become a primary power source for humans in the not too distant future.
 
The difference is minor. They shine a laser with X watts of power on the fuel. The fuel absorbs a percentage of X, let's say 80%. In turn the nuclear reaction generates a certain amount of power. In this experiment, the fuel generated more energy than it was absorbing from the laser (80% of X) but was still less than the full power of the laser (X).

As far as I'm concerned it's ignition, or proof of concept at least. The fuel is producing more energy than it is consuming.

Good news, but it's still a rather small hurdle in the long list of big hurdles. That being said, nuclear fusion is absolutely achievable and I have no doubt it will become a primary power source for humans in the not too distant future.

Thank you for that! So it sounds like it was almost ignition but it wasn't a fully efficient ignition in that it didn't utilize all the power of the laser. Is that about right?
 
Thank you for that! So it sounds like it was almost ignition but it wasn't a fully efficient ignition in that it didn't utilize all the power of the laser. Is that about right?

That's what I take away from it, yep.
 
I assume you are referring to ITER? I thought it had a much longer time frame than that. Even when you achieve ignition you still have a long way to go to turning that into a usable commercial power plant.

Have you compared an iPhone 5 to a flip phone from 10 years ago? This stuff moves fast!
 
I really wanted to bump this. In the grand scheme of things I'd say this has more relevance to our species than any political story of the moment.

Speaking of things political, since this is a political forum, I'm going to comment on political ramifications.

First, I'll be very interested to see which entities try to retard progress in this area. A lot of groups would lose a lot of political clout if we moved away from fossil fuels. This would include oil companies, oil producing states and the AGW industry, and a number of academic institutions.

My guess is that as this technology nears viability, almost insurmountable regulatory roadblocks will arise, as well as vague but passionate "environmental concerns." I expect that there would be calls to delay development to avoid destabilizing parts of the global economy.

Also, in the same month that we got this news and the "lightsaber" article, I once again find it astonishing that our major existential external threat continues to be the resurgence of a savage medieval social model bent on domination through violence and insane genocide.
 
Regardless of whether it's ever used for energy production, IF true this is a pretty significant scientific achievement.

No, it's primarily a technological achievement. (Sorry, a personal Crusade. I think that it's very important for people to think of science and technology as often related, but separate things.)
 
No, it's primarily a technological achievement. (Sorry, a personal Crusade. I think that it's very important for people to think of science and technology as often related, but separate things.)

I sympathize but wouldn't this be classified as a scientific achievement due to it's experimental nature and its ability to act as a proof of scientific concept?
 
The BBC is reporting that sometime in late September an experiment was conducted at the Nuclear Ignition Facility (NIF) in which: The BBC understands that during an experiment in late September, the amount of energy released through the fusion reaction exceeded the amount of energy being absorbed by the fuel - the first time this had been achieved at any fusion facility in the world. This is a step short of the lab's stated goal of "ignition", where nuclear fusion generates as much energy as the lasers supply. This is because known "inefficiencies" in different parts of the system mean not all the energy supplied through the laser is delivered to the fuel. But the latest achievement has been described as the single most meaningful step for fusion in recent years, and demonstrates NIF is well on its way towards the coveted target of ignition and self-sustaining fusion.

Wow. That is amazing to hear. I remember reading articles about their confidence in the upcoming experiments back in July and August, and the guys at NIF have gotten a ton of flack for their cockiness in the past. But wow.

BBC News - Nuclear fusion milestone passed at US lab

Good luck. I'm a big green sustainability nut... And I get tired of "oh this coming down the road is sooooo close..." articles that I'm kind of numb to them.
 
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