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Now What !!

Nero

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Peaceful Muslim said:
Laws throughout history time have changed like a zillion times when there was a need to change.. how come many countries refused and condemned newspapers who printed the cartoons?
if we didn't do anything about it now tomorrow all european countries will do the same and the US and it will keep going on, isn't it? we have the right to ask for a respect to our prophet and again " i am not justifying the violent actions that took place".. i believe the cartoons are a reflection of what is the picture of Islam outthere and Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) as well..
There are some Muslims now planning to have a campaigne to clarify things about Islam in Denemark through publishing books in their language and setting up conferences for that matter.. i believe its a good start ..
the things is when you make a joke about something it should be at least partialy true for people to laugh isn't it ?
you make a joke about certain people cuz they are cheap, or stubborn or have a certain trademark move or there are also certain situations comedies
isn't?
if danish people knew the truth i do not think they would've published these cartoons..

I do agree that most of people that think those cartoons are funny are just ignorant, and while i support any effore by danish muslims to show us the true works of muhamed, not of that has anything to do with banning newspaper articles. As i said, im 100% sure that what i think of muhamed is wrong, and im all for fighting steriotypes, but the way to change peoples minds is through explaining to them they are wrong, not through banning the newspaper.

Think for example what would have happened in denmark if there had been no cartoons. If there had been no cartoons the "peacefull" muslims there wouldn't be explaining there side, and most people would remain ignorant. In other words the mere fact that this appeared in the headlines forced some people with preconsidered opinions on muhamed to rethink there position. This is a positive thing that can only arrise from free-speach.

You have also not adressed my previus question:
"Think about it, it would be like me asking you never to read any books becuase i find books offensive, would that make sence?".
especialy since two sides of a conflict almost never agree before hand on what is true and what is not. That is why it is very important for both to be able to state what they beleive.
 

Brigand

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Nero said:
I do agree that most of people that think those cartoons are funny are just ignorant, and while i support any effore by danish muslims to show us the true works of muhamed, not of that has anything to do with banning newspaper articles. As i said, im 100% sure that what i think of muhamed is wrong, and im all for fighting steriotypes, but the way to change peoples minds is through explaining to them they are wrong, not through banning the newspaper.

Think for example what would have happened in denmark if there had been no cartoons. If there had been no cartoons the "peacefull" muslims there wouldn't be explaining there side, and most people would remain ignorant. In other words the mere fact that this appeared in the headlines forced some people with preconsidered opinions on muhamed to rethink there position. This is a positive thing that can only arrise from free-speach.

I'm not sure why people continue their posturing about this being an 'issue of freedom speech'. The issue doesn't even arise. The journal (Jyllands-Posten- Jutlands Post) refused to print cartoons of Christian practices because it would offend the community and "Provoke an outcry", shortly before they decided to print these particular caricatures. The cartoons were, weeks before, insitigated by the Danish Minister for Culture. Read his 'cultural struggles new front' regarding immigrant minority Muslims speech given at the Conservative National Conference and what these caricatures are reflecting. Muslim orginizations first response to the caricatures was to write to the Minister for Culture, who refused to answer.

The European record and practices regarding freedom of speech is essentially horrendous. The posturing of freedom speech in Europe is outright laughable, and essentially a lie. In the US, where there is a high degree of protection, the NY Times has a legal write to publish vicious anti-Semitic caricatures of Moses with disgusting racist captions. Have you seen it?
 
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DivineComedy

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“Peaceful” Muslim I am probably one of the few people on this message board that believes the intent of our United States Constitution’s Bill of Rights, if interpreted properly and logically necessary, would allow a Muslim State within the United States to prohibit an offensive or pornographic cartoon within that Islamic State. Our States were not created to simply pick State flowers, and due to the problems between the Shiites and the Sunnis it is for that reason I believe Iraq could learn something from our Constitution: they need a Brutus (see Anti-federalist), but then again that demands Islam respect the choices of others to have a home: a faith is not a faith if it must be forced. The Bill of Rights was created through a struggle between the Federalists that were initially against a First Amendment (believing no religion would be able to maintain a majority), and the Anti-federalists that demanded a First Amendment. Although few people on this message board will agree with me in this matter, for many of them have no sense:

“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}

I do not believe it is conductive to the peace and security of a State to allow offence to a religion (especially its own). It follows that a State must be allowed to establish what is safe religion getting right into the minutia, especially if a religion has no precepts against the use of civilian disguise in warfare, therefore, I believe it is illogical for a State’s Republican form of government to be forced to accept offensive freedom of speech within its own borders. I believe some of the founders understood religion far more than our current generation, that would have all States be secular as if the lack of education could stop any bad religion, and the actual wording of the supreme law of the land and its current interpretation by the Supreme Court backs up what I am saying:

“Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

The first word of that First Amendment is “Congress,” and I do not believe that those founders so close to the “English” language made a mistake, so the intent was that the First Amendment not apply to the States; the District of Columbia is not a State for the very purpose of giving a free zone within which all people with or without religion are free to speak, print, and “peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Each State then passed its own Bill of Rights, which is an illogical unnecessary redundancy if the First Amendment was known at the time to clearly apply to the States; certainly the part of the New York Constitution dealing with religion which says “but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of this state,“ clearly could mean that insulting the prophet would be “inconsistent with the peace or safety,” of that State (should that State be an Islamic State).

“Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

The power to determine whether a precept of Islam is dangerous must lie with the individual States or the people, and that is why it is important to determine whether according to a Muslim it is a violation of Islam’s Golden Rule to use civilian disguise in warfare endangering all civilians. We simply must establish the truth, and take steps to protect ourselves! If your Islam is a “nation as muslims” and disrespectful of state boundaries and the offences that will obviously arise from a possibly godless secular mob within any given state, it is imperative that we know the answer to the most important question.

Is it a violation of Islam’s Golden Rule for a Muslim to use civilian disguise in warfare?
 
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Nero said:
I do agree that most of people that think those cartoons are funny are just ignorant, and while i support any effore by danish muslims to show us the true works of muhamed, not of that has anything to do with banning newspaper articles. As i said, im 100% sure that what i think of muhamed is wrong, and im all for fighting steriotypes, but the way to change peoples minds is through explaining to them they are wrong, not through banning the newspaper.

Think for example what would have happened in denmark if there had been no cartoons. If there had been no cartoons the "peacefull" muslims there wouldn't be explaining there side, and most people would remain ignorant. In other words the mere fact that this appeared in the headlines forced some people with preconsidered opinions on muhamed to rethink there position. This is a positive thing that can only arrise from free-speach.

You have also not adressed my previus question:
"Think about it, it would be like me asking you never to read any books becuase i find books offensive, would that make sence?".
especialy since two sides of a conflict almost never agree before hand on what is true and what is not. That is why it is very important for both to be able to state what they beleive.


I believe that the only way to show people true Islam and who was Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), is by talking to people about it showing them facts about his life which was recorded in all of its details in Holy Quran, Sunnah and the recodrings done by his followers who experienced and witnessed everything during his life..I certainly do not agree to turn the anger into a storm that kills everything . Those people who burnt embassies & were outthere in the streets burning flags definitely are unaware of what they are doing.. God created us with minds for us not to act like animals.. that is the heart of Islam.
Moreover it was our mistake as you said "If there had been no cartoons the "peacefull" muslims there wouldn't be explaining there side" .. which is why i am trying to talk to you and what i previously mentioned to you about the campaigne..
but i wanna stop at the point of cartoons themselves, if for example,that danish newspapaer had wrote an article about Muslims and prophet muhammad (PBUH) i am sure the reactions wouldn't have been the same
lets say i know a coworker whom i think is a lier, would i go and say infront of him: hey you are a lier and make fun of him in front of a room filled with people? if this is a freedom of speech then i am sorry we have lost every piece of humanity !! explaining or expressing an opinion is ok but we have to find the line where we should stop..specially in religious issues they have been always extremely senstive
as for your question: of course not i do not have any right to allow you or prohibit you about doing something you want its a choice and life is all about choices ..
for example you read a book that is about Islam as a religion of terrorism and you were convinced with the authors ideas cuz it meets yours. there is a difference betwen talking to me about it or writing an article expressing you opinion about it but to use it as a joke when we are sitting in public room ?? i believe freedom of speech should be combined with respect otherwise one day on the long run all nations will be in War with each other..
 

Nero

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I believe that the only way to show people true Islam and who was Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), is by talking to people about it showing them facts about his life which was recorded in all of its details in Holy Quran, Sunnah and the recodrings done by his followers who experienced and witnessed everything during his life..I certainly do not agree to turn the anger into a storm that kills everything . Those people who burnt embassies & were outthere in the streets burning flags definitely are unaware of what they are doing.. God created us with minds for us not to act like animals.. that is the heart of Islam.
Moreover it was our mistake as you said "If there had been no cartoons the "peacefull" muslims there wouldn't be explaining there side" .. which is why i am trying to talk to you and what i previously mentioned to you about the campaigne..
but i wanna stop at the point of cartoons themselves, if for example,that danish newspapaer had wrote an article about Muslims and prophet muhammad (PBUH) i am sure the reactions wouldn't have been the same
lets say i know a coworker whom i think is a lier, would i go and say infront of him: hey you are a lier and make fun of him in front of a room filled with people? if this is a freedom of speech then i am sorry we have lost every piece of humanity !! explaining or expressing an opinion is ok but we have to find the line where we should stop..specially in religious issues they have been always extremely senstive
as for your question: of course not i do not have any right to allow you or prohibit you about doing something you want its a choice and life is all about choices ..
for example you read a book that is about Islam as a religion of terrorism and you were convinced with the authors ideas cuz it meets yours. there is a difference betwen talking to me about it or writing an article expressing you opinion about it but to use it as a joke when we are sitting in public room ?? i believe freedom of speech should be combined with respect otherwise one day on the long run all nations will be in War with each other..

I agree with you that a co-worker who acted that way would be wrong, but here is the thing, he would be wrong, the room would be right. In other words, i agree with you that the cartoonists themselfs aren't "good" people, what they did in publishing those cartoons was sneaky and base. However Denmark is not wrong in allowing it.

If as in your example someone made such a speach, the poeple in the room would probably think he was a real idiot and not notice him. But still he should be allowed to say what he wants, becuase what if he is right? what if everyone else agreed with him, and since you can't know before hand if he is right or wrong, let him speak and after words you can judge him as stupid.

That is why i think that your anger is misplaced, if the cartoonists are wrong we as freeindividuals can judge that what they say is nonsence and that they are wrong in saying what they did. But denmark was right in allowing it. It is not Denmarks job to tell them not to publish, if you want to organize a boycott, boycott the cartoonists, prove to them they are wrong but don't ask denmark to do it for you.
 

DivineComedy

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DivineComedy said:
Is it a violation of Islam’s Golden Rule for a Muslim to use civilian disguise in warfare?

Peaceful Muslim said:
I believe that the only way to show people true Islam and who was Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), is by talking to people about it

Once again a question goes unanswered?
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I certainly do not agree to turn the anger into a storm that kills everything. Those people who burnt embassies & were outthere in the streets burning flags definitely are unaware of what they are doing.. God created us with minds for us not to act like animals.. that is the heart of Islam...
I beg to differ. They are acutely aware of what they are doing. To make matters worse, they are doing this violence in the name of Islam.

You may be surprised, but I also speak the mISR dialect of Arabic. Islam respects other people? I would suggest that you listen to Egyptian radio as I sometimes do. The anti-Jewish vitriol that regularly flows forth is shocking and shameful. Yet not one word of retraction or apology from Peaceful Muslims is ever heard. The word hypocrisy readily comes to mind.
 
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Tashah said:
I beg to differ. They are acutely aware of what they are doing. To make matters worse, they are doing this violence in the name of Islam.

You may be surprised, but I also speak the mISR dialect of Arabic. Islam respects other people? I would suggest that you listen to Egyptian radio as I sometimes do. The anti-Jewish vitriol that regularly flows forth is shocking and shameful. Yet not one word of retraction or apology from Peaceful Muslims is ever heard. The word hypocrisy readily comes to mind.


I agree with you totally but i don't wanna get into the whole who is behind everything that has been going on and the use of Islam to entitle all of the recent events and terrorism .. to me everything now is a big fat story which is a part of big fat lie..

Islam does respect people Tashah and even a part of Iman basics to believe in all prophets and a denial of one of them is a denial to Islam it self , why ? because they all came with one message "believe in God" ...

I never denied the fact that there are always people who behave in a bad manner towards others wither it was a religion , political, profession or any other matter..does this imply that this is Islam? OF COURSE NOT ..
I said it before for ages we lived in harmony with Christians ( not a lot of jews are around us that is why i am using christians as example) even at his time Prophet Muhammad (PBUH),Jews lived with him in Madina and he dealt with them on all levels , they were his neighbours too .. what does that tell you?

I would like to tell you as well that there are really great muslims out there whom their stories do not reach you guys .. they have really influenced westerns with their behavior as true muslims..there is always the other side but unfortunately some media try their best to show the worse ..
do you know that statistic show that there were 70,000 new muslims last year?
for example: i am talking to my friend about a guy i know and i say: "he is a great guy and so confident even though he is kind of chubby i really admire him when some people make fun of him". then you go and tell that friend of mine and say:"oh i was talking to your friend "Peaceful muslim the other day he thinks you are chubby" !!! this is a simple example of how thing work :S

A story was told by Amr Khalid ( he represents many Tv Shows about Islam) : he lives in England and when he first moved there , His English neigbour was so annoyed cuz Muslims moved right next to him. The guy was so careful to show that since the moment he saw them.. after a month the neighbour's attitude changed 180 Degrees, the guy in snowing days made sure that Amr Khalid's wife will be able to start her car and start moving by removing the snow covering it witha shovel.. what does that tell ?
Ask Westerns who live between us now in the Middle East they will tell you that we are not what you think we are.. we have the good & the bad just like any nation..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I said it before for ages we lived in harmony with Christians (not a lot of jews are around us that is why i am using christians as example)
Harmony? Then why does Islam demand the payment of Jizya (tax on infidels) from Christians and Jews who dwell in Muslim lands? You seem to forget Peaceful Muslim, that I speak your language and I am well versed in the scripture of Mohammad. Islam's view of 'harmony' can be found here...

Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jizya (poll tax) with the hand of humility. Qur'an 9:29

Peaceful Muslim said:
even at his time Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), Jews lived with him in Madina and he dealt with them on all levels , they were his neighbours too .. what does that tell you?
Although you are probably unaware of this, the city of Madinah in Saudi Arabia was originally settled by three Jewish tribes from the north, and they named this settlement site Yathrib (Arabs in History - Bernard Lewis p. 40).

After Mohammad consolidated his power in the Hijaz area (Mekkah and Madinah), he expelled one Jewish tribe and murdered of all the members of the two remaining Jewish tribes (Quraiza/Khaibar) except for the women and children who were sold into slavery.

Two religions may not dwell together on the Arabian Peninsula. - attributed to the Prophet Mohammad / Muwatta / Al-Zurkani commentary IV, p. 71

... some you slew and others you took captive. He (Allah) made you masters of their (the Jews) land, their houses and their goods, and of yet another land (Khaibar) on which you had never set foot before. Truly, Allah has power over all things. Qur'an / Surah 33, v. 26-32

Peaceful Muslim, I humbly suggest that you try another avenue of persuasion.
 

DivineComedy

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If a Muslim wants to persuade me about the content of their character they are going to have to actually answer some questions:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=225328&postcount=12

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=243412&postcount=53

A long, long, long time ago I posted (August 30, 2001 10:35 PM) some verses looking for some answers from another “Peaceful” {said with church lady tone} Muslim, as I don’t speak the language I needed some help interpreting some verses, and I said of some of them “These could easy be misinterpreted…to justify terrorist fanatics:”

me said:
“[6.48] And We send not messengers but as
announcers of good news and givers of
warning, then whoever believes and acts
aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they
grieve.”
“[6.49] And (as for) those who reject Our
communications, chastisement shall afflict
them because they transgressed.”
“[7.36] And (as for) those who reject Our
communications and turn away from them
haughtily these are the inmates of the fire they
shall abide in it.
[7.37] Who is then more unjust than he who
forges a lie against Allah or rejects His
communications? (As for) those, their portion
of the Book shall reach them, until when Our
messengers come to them causing them to
die, they shall say: Where is that which you
used to call upon besides Allah? They would
say: They are gone away from us; and they
shall bear witness against themselves that
they were unbelievers”
“[22.75] Allah chooses messengers from
among the angels and from among the men;
surely Allah is Hearing, Seeing.”

I never got an answer from the “Peaceful” {said with church lady tone} Muslim, but finally somebody came along and explained those verses to me:

“Whenever a nation becomes great and powerful by God’s Permission, as America has; whenever a nation becomes the undisputed ruler of the world, as America has, by Allah’s Permission; when a nation becomes the only remaining superpower, having the power to destroy other nations and people by the tens of thousands and millions, as Allah has permitted America the power to do, and that nation then has a spiritual lapse and begins to sink into moral decline, the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) raises a messenger, but he raises that messenger from among the poor and the abject to guide and to warn the great and the powerful.
Allah (God) knows that the powerful will not heed a warning coming from their ex-slave or from the weak or from the abject, so the Qur’an teaches that Allah (God) then seizes that nation with distress and affliction, that it might humble itself. For only in humility can the proud and the powerful heed the Guidance of God, which is mercy and grace from Himself. Allah (God) used this tragedy, hopefully, to bring a great nation to Himself.” (World Press Conference from Mosque Maryam The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan responds to the ATTACK on AMERICA
Sunday, September 16, 2001)

The failure to communicate is really not helping to persuade me.
 
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Tashah said:
Harmony? Then why does Islam demand the payment of Jizya (tax on infidels) from Christians and Jews who dwell in Muslim lands? You seem to forget Peaceful Muslim, that I speak your language and I am well versed in the scripture of Mohammad. Islam's view of 'harmony' can be found here...

Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jizya (poll tax) with the hand of humility. Qur'an 9:29


Although you are probably unaware of this, the city of Madinah in Saudi Arabia was originally settled by three Jewish tribes from the north, and they named this settlement site Yathrib (Arabs in History - Bernard Lewis p. 40).

After Mohammad consolidated his power in the Hijaz area (Mekkah and Madinah), he expelled one Jewish tribe and murdered of all the members of the two remaining Jewish tribes (Quraiza/Khaibar) except for the women and children who were sold into slavery.

Two religions may not dwell together on the Arabian Peninsula. - attributed to the Prophet Mohammad / Muwatta / Al-Zurkani commentary IV, p. 71

... some you slew and others you took captive. He (Allah) made you masters of their (the Jews) land, their houses and their goods, and of yet another land (Khaibar) on which you had never set foot before. Truly, Allah has power over all things. Qur'an / Surah 33, v. 26-32

Peaceful Muslim, I humbly suggest that you try another avenue of persuasion.

I realize that .. but can you please not just read the last line of the story
 

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What a perfect religion, for imperfect beings.

“[2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
[2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.”

It simply has an excuse for everything? Like, since the Muslim can’t even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—surely it being alike to them whether there is a warning, as the Muslim Islamifascists use civilian disguise to wage war against even their own kin (not to mention the Jews who were given the Book {first}), the Muslim simply does not appear to believe in the Golden Rule.

“[2.99] And certainly We have revealed to you clear communications and none disbelieve in them except the transgressors.”

I guess that explains the one way Muslim vomit called “communication!” And it explains the Muslim’s continual refusal to even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule; “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself."

“[2.257] Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.”

That just tears it, the Muslim can’t even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule; “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself." If the Golden Rule is logical, as it must be to all intelligent beings in the entire universe, that must mean the Muslim is being led by the SATANIC VERSES of an ambushing creed. There simply is no other logical explanation, right?

“[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.”

So, which is it, is G-d going to lead, and give us clear communications as to whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—or does Islam only exist to perfect the conceit of Muslim so-called “believers?”

Matthew 7:12 “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.”

No wonder the so-called Muslim “believers” are blowing each other up, and believing every conspiracy except to condemn themselves; they “set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for” those Islamic State Sponsors of Terrorism that perfected the use of civilian disguise to facilitate terrorism!

How could a person love their neighbor as themselves and not answer the two questions:

1) Is Hamas a terrorist group?

2) Is it alright if we hurt Hamas and their allies?

How could a person love their neighbor as themselves and vote for a Hamas, or allow Islamifascist criminals like Hamas to use civilian disguise to wage war putting all civilians/civilization in danger?
 
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DivineComedy said:
What a perfect religion, for imperfect beings.

“[2.6] Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.
[2.7] Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.”

It simply has an excuse for everything? Like, since the Muslim can’t even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—surely it being alike to them whether there is a warning, as the Muslim Islamifascists use civilian disguise to wage war against even their own kin (not to mention the Jews who were given the Book {first}), the Muslim simply does not appear to believe in the Golden Rule.

“[2.99] And certainly We have revealed to you clear communications and none disbelieve in them except the transgressors.”

I guess that explains the one way Muslim vomit called “communication!” And it explains the Muslim’s continual refusal to even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule; “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself."

“[2.257] Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.”

That just tears it, the Muslim can’t even answer whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule; “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself." If the Golden Rule is logical, as it must be to all intelligent beings in the entire universe, that must mean the Muslim is being led by the SATANIC VERSES of an ambushing creed. There simply is no other logical explanation, right?

“[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.”

So, which is it, is G-d going to lead, and give us clear communications as to whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—or does Islam only exist to perfect the conceit of Muslim so-called “believers?”

Matthew 7:12 “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.”

No wonder the so-called Muslim “believers” are blowing each other up, and believing every conspiracy except to condemn themselves; they “set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for” those Islamic State Sponsors of Terrorism that perfected the use of civilian disguise to facilitate terrorism!

How could a person love their neighbor as themselves and not answer the two questions:

1) Is Hamas a terrorist group?

2) Is it alright if we hurt Hamas and their allies?

How could a person love their neighbor as themselves and vote for a Hamas, or allow Islamifascist criminals like Hamas to use civilian disguise to wage war putting all civilians/civilization in danger?


I am refusing to answer the question not can't answer it..we are people who gave our souls willignly to god & the people of palestine even if that meant us dying cuz either ways Israilis are killing us so it doesn't matter anymore.. this is what we call JIHAD. Jihad takes place when your country, people & religion is in danger then you have to take actions if you can. Now one thing i do not agree with is Commiting Jihad bombing against civilians and most muslim agree on that cuz War in Islam mean only fighting between armies. We shouldn't hurt a woman, a child and old man or a civilian..
as for Hamas as a terrorists group, When Hamas comes to the US and bomb you then you can say they are terrorists.. Those people are fighting for a country to survive..i do not expect you to understand that
 
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Peaceful Muslim said:
I am refusing to answer the question not can't answer it..we are people who gave our souls willignly to god & the people of palestine even if that meant us dying cuz either ways Israilis are killing us so it doesn't matter anymore.. this is what we call JIHAD. Jihad takes place when your country, people & religion is in danger then you have to take actions if you can. Now one thing i do not agree with is Commiting Jihad bombing against civilians and most muslim agree on that cuz War in Islam mean only fighting between armies. We shouldn't hurt a woman, a child and old man or a civilian..
as for Hamas as a terrorists group, When Hamas comes to the US and bomb you then you can say they are terrorists.. Those people are fighting for a country to survive..i do not expect you to understand that

the notion that the Hamas is fighting for a country to survive is propostrous. Israel has already left the gaza strip and Israel is now in process of withdrawing from the west bank. The Hamas and the other terrorist groups are using suicide killings as a bargaining tool, they don't want a country, they want more land for a country that already exists.

The groundwork for a 2 nation seperation accord was already set in place in the oslo accord 10 years ago. It is already commenly accepted in Israel that a palestinian state will exist, the dissagreement is about how much land the palestinians will get. So your argument that the Terrorirsts are atacking for freedom is completly wrong.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I am refusing to answer the question not can't answer it..we are people who gave our souls willignly to god & the people of palestine even if that meant us dying cuz either ways Israilis are killing us so it doesn't matter anymore.. this is what we call JIHAD. Jihad takes place when your country, people & religion is in danger then you have to take actions if you can. Now one thing i do not agree with is Commiting Jihad bombing against civilians and most muslim agree on that cuz War in Islam mean only fighting between armies. We shouldn't hurt a woman, a child and old man or a civilian..
as for Hamas as a terrorists group, When Hamas comes to the US and bomb you then you can say they are terrorists.. Those people are fighting for a country to survive..i do not expect you to understand that

“Peaceful” Muslim the deliberate and obvious delay in addressing the questions and your refusal to answer the question as to whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—clearly indicates you are aware of right and wrong, therefore, my use of this verse was correctly applied:

“[2.99] And certainly We have revealed to you clear communications and none disbelieve in them except the transgressors.”

You claim that if Hamas comes to the US and bombs us then we can say they are terrorists, but you do not admit that doing the same against Israel makes Hamas terrorists, that is insane; the Israelis have just as much of a right to self-determination as any true Nation; since your “nation as muslims” has not obtained a critical mass in the US, and as a result your desire for personal gratification in acquiring the territory of the State of Israel is clear, therefore your “Islamic” creed should not be allowed to immigrate to other territories or spread within them!

The following between {} was inserted by me:

"intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs {for land, see Hamas Charter: “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors.”}. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others {See, Israelis}, they cold-bloodedly take what they want {See, History of Islamic conquests} and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret {See, the Geneva Conventions}."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

Peaceful Muslim said:
Now one thing i do not agree with is Commiting Jihad bombing against civilians and most muslim agree on that cuz War in Islam mean only fighting between armies. We shouldn't hurt a woman, a child and old man or a civilian..
as for Hamas as a terrorists group, When Hamas comes to the US and bomb you then you can say they are terrorists.. Those people are fighting for a country to survive..i do not expect you to understand that

I understand Palestinian Muslim that your kind worship and vote for a psychopathic creed:

“Dear Sheikh Yassin,
We are writing to you regarding continued attacks against civilians for which the Islamic Resistance Movement (harakat al-muqawama al-islamiyya, Hamas) has claimed responsibility. We are aware of remarks by you and by other leading Hamas figures, including Dr. Abd al-Aziz al-Rantissi and Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, endorsing such attacks.”
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/hamasltr080602.htm

A psychopathic creed of idolaters that swirl around a black stone idol and talks to rocks:

“The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).” (The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas))
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

INSANITY!

*****

“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Effeminate Christians, and Moslem psychopathic aggressors! Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I am refusing to answer the question not can't answer it..we are people who gave our souls willignly to god & the people of palestine even if that meant us dying cuz either ways Israilis are killing us so it doesn't matter anymore.. this is what we call JIHAD. Jihad takes place when your country, people & religion is in danger then you have to take actions if you can. Now one thing i do not agree with is Commiting Jihad bombing against civilians and most muslim agree on that cuz War in Islam mean only fighting between armies. We shouldn't hurt a woman, a child and old man or a civilian..
as for Hamas as a terrorists group, When Hamas comes to the US and bomb you then you can say they are terrorists.. Those people are fighting for a country to survive..i do not expect you to understand that
In the beginning of this thread (authored by you) about respect, I took the time to educate you about three English words; Israel, Israeli, and Israelis. Even so, you continue to either misspell or misuse these words. I can now only conclude that this is done with purpose... to show disrespect. Very well. I originally gave you the benefit of the doubt. No longer will I do so.

You preach that Islam and Mohammad must be respected by all... even if that means a loss of our secular personal freedoms. All non-Muslims should sacrifice cherished freedoms simply for the sake of Muslim sensibility... not to mention Peaceful Muslim repercussions such as riots, killings, burnings, and boycots. You seek a respect that you do not extend to others. Why can Muslims travel and live anywhere but I cannot even visit Saudi Arabia? To my question of gross Muslim disrespect in the Middle East for anything Jewish, you have no answer. To the question of why Muslims ignore their Golden Rule when it comes to Islamic terrorists, you have no answer. Perhaps a more appropriate Muslim credo when it comes to respect should be... Do as I say, not as I do.

As far as your people being in danger from Israel, let me remind you that each Arab/Israeli war has been initiated by Arab armies seeking to drive the Israelis into the sea. In each military encounter against Israel, you have been soundly thrashed.

Instead of seeking a negotiated peace with Israel as did Egypt and Jordan, the Palestinians embraced a campaign of bloody terrorism against Israeli civilians to achieve their religious/political/geographical goals. You have now even elected Hamas as your representative government. Hamas has been deemed a terrorist organzation by Israel, the United States, the European Union, and Australia.

Hamastine. That is what you now have and it is well deserved. I hope you are well prepared to travel down the dismal road to nowhere that Hamas has paved for you. I hope you are well prepared for the consequences of Jihad that you have so willingly embraced. قد لدى اللّه رحمة عليك
 
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Nero said:
the notion that the Hamas is fighting for a country to survive is propostrous. Israel has already left the gaza strip and Israel is now in process of withdrawing from the west bank. The Hamas and the other terrorist groups are using suicide killings as a bargaining tool, they don't want a country, they want more land for a country that already exists.

The groundwork for a 2 nation seperation accord was already set in place in the oslo accord 10 years ago. It is already commenly accepted in Israel that a palestinian state will exist, the dissagreement is about how much land the palestinians will get. So your argument that the Terrorirsts are atacking for freedom is completly wrong.

Our country is not just Gaza Strip & West Bank my friend..Israilis to Palestinians are invadors and to them the War will remain going on until Israilis settle to the fact that this is our land and they need to live under our roof
 
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It never has been your land. Last I can recall that the area known as Palestine, has been controlled by the Romans, Turks, and the British. When have the Palestinian Arabs ever ruled over the whole region of Palestine?

Besides, the West Bank is actually Jordanian territory, and the Gaza strip was once Egyptian.
 
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Australianlibertarian said:
It never has been your land. Last I can recall that the area known as Palestine, has been controlled by the Romans, Turks, and the British. When have the Palestinian Arabs ever ruled over the whole region of Palestine?

Besides, the West Bank is actually Jordanian territory, and the Gaza strip was once Egyptian.

well i guess we are just people who happen to like the land and just out of the blue decided to consider it ours and have our kids killed everyday and our houses destroyed just for the sake of you know i wanna have it ...!!!!!!
 
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Tashah said:
In the beginning of this thread (authored by you) about respect, I took the time to educate you about three English words; Israel, Israeli, and Israelis. Even so, you continue to either misspell or misuse these words. I can now only conclude that this is done with purpose... to show disrespect. Very well. I originally gave you the benefit of the doubt. No longer will I do so.

I am sorry you think that is what i meant..

You preach that Islam and Mohammad must be respected by all... even if that means a loss of our secular personal freedoms. All non-Muslims should sacrifice cherished freedoms simply for the sake of Muslim sensibility... not to mention Peaceful Muslim repercussions such as riots, killings, burnings, and boycots. You seek a respect that you do not extend to others. Why can Muslims travel and live anywhere but I cannot even visit Saudi Arabia? To my question of gross Muslim disrespect in the Middle East for anything Jewish, you have no answer. To the question of why Muslims ignore their Golden Rule when it comes to Islamic terrorists, you have no answer. Perhaps a more appropriate Muslim credo when it comes to respect should be... Do as I say, not as I do.

Did i ever say it was ok for muslims to kill anyone !!!! One more thing as a correction, Palestinians do not even have a respected passport?? With a palestinian paper we are not allowed to enter not even some of the arabian countries!!!!!!
It is not ignoring Mr. Tashah.. Its is the confusioin the takes place where anger of a lifetime can cause that ..Palestinians Hate Israil, true.. Should be we kill civilians? no.. Should we resist? Yes, its our land.. that is the correct statement..


As far as your people being in danger from Israel, let me remind you that each Arab/Israeli war has been initiated by Arab armies seeking to drive the Israelis into the sea. In each military encounter against Israel, you have been soundly thrashed.

Instead of seeking a negotiated peace with Israel as did Egypt and Jordan, the Palestinians embraced a campaign of bloody terrorism against Israeli civilians to achieve their religious/political/geographical goals. You have now even elected Hamas as your representative government. Hamas has been deemed a terrorist organzation by Israel, the United States, the European Union, and Australia.

again, did i say it was ok to hurt civilians?? I said it before, Electing hamas was for a reason: International Laws screwed up for ages..

Hamastine. That is what you now have and it is well deserved. I hope you are well prepared to travel down the dismal road to nowhere that Hamas has paved for you. I hope you are well prepared for the consequences of Jihad that you have so willingly embraced. قد لدى اللّه رحمة عليك

Thank you for your respect..
 
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DivineComedy said:
“Peaceful” Muslim the deliberate and obvious delay in addressing the questions and your refusal to answer the question as to whether the use of civilian disguise in warfare by Hamas violates the Islamic Golden Rule—Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourself—clearly indicates you are aware of right and wrong, therefore, my use of this verse was correctly applied:

“[2.99] And certainly We have revealed to you clear communications and none disbelieve in them except the transgressors.”

You claim that if Hamas comes to the US and bombs us then we can say they are terrorists, but you do not admit that doing the same against Israel makes Hamas terrorists, that is insane; the Israelis have just as much of a right to self-determination as any true Nation; since your “nation as muslims” has not obtained a critical mass in the US, and as a result your desire for personal gratification in acquiring the territory of the State of Israel is clear, therefore your “Islamic” creed should not be allowed to immigrate to other territories or spread within them!

The following between {} was inserted by me:

"intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs {for land, see Hamas Charter: “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors.”}. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others {See, Israelis}, they cold-bloodedly take what they want {See, History of Islamic conquests} and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret {See, the Geneva Conventions}."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath



I understand Palestinian Muslim that your kind worship and vote for a psychopathic creed:

“Dear Sheikh Yassin,
We are writing to you regarding continued attacks against civilians for which the Islamic Resistance Movement (harakat al-muqawama al-islamiyya, Hamas) has claimed responsibility. We are aware of remarks by you and by other leading Hamas figures, including Dr. Abd al-Aziz al-Rantissi and Dr. Mahmoud Zahar, endorsing such attacks.”
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/hamasltr080602.htm

A psychopathic creed of idolaters that swirl around a black stone idol and talks to rocks:

“The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).” (The Platform of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas))
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

INSANITY!

*****

“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Effeminate Christians, and Moslem psychopathic aggressors! Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}


Well we are psychopaths, Creeps and Insane people. 1,300,000,000 Insane people..
Please can you not interpret Holy Quran the way you wanna see it .. The explanation of the verses you mentioned has nothing to do with what you are talking about..
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
I am sorry you think that is what i meant..
I can only base my conclusions on what you write here. In a Quote below, you once again misspell Israel. Your disrespect is obvious and petty.

Peaceful Muslim said:
Did i ever say it was ok for muslims to kill anyone !!!! One more thing as a correction, Palestinians do not even have a respected passport?? With a palestinian paper we are not allowed to enter not even some of the arabian countries!!!!!!
It is not the fault of Israel that your 'government' cannot issue legitimate and respected passports. Perhaps if the PA had not issued bogus passports to move terrorists about, more nations would honor them. You have only yourselves to blame for this predicament. As far as Arabic countries not allowing you entrance, they do what is in their best interests. I have been to every Middle East Arabic nation except the Kingdom which refuses permission for me to visit. Why is this Peaceful Muslim? Because I am Israeli? Because I am Jewish? Because I am female? Or is it a combination of all three?

Peaceful Muslim said:
It is not ignoring Mr. Tashah.. Its is the confusioin the takes place where anger of a lifetime can cause that ..Palestinians Hate Israil, true.. Should be we kill civilians? no.. Should we resist? Yes, its our land.. that is the correct statement..
First of all, I am a female. Ms. Tashah (Marat Tashah) is proper form. It is also quite evident from my avatar picture that I am female. Additionally, the female-gender ordinal sign is below that. Once again, I must conclude that your disrespect is intentional.

Secondly, it is not entirely your land. The Jewish prophet Abraham entered and settled this land eons ago. Additionally, the United Nations partitioned the Levant in 1946 creating the State of Israel and Palestine. It is through your wars of aggression that you have lost portions of Palestine. It is through your rejections of peaceful coexistence that your condition remains dismal.

Peaceful Muslim said:
again, did i say it was ok to hurt civilians?? I said it before, Electing hamas was for a reason: International Laws screwed up for ages..
What the Palestinian people say about attacking civilians and what measures they take to end this barbarity are two very different things. Since you willingly elected a terrorist organization to represent you, your pleas of innocence and aversion to terrorism fall on deaf ears.

Peaceful Muslim said:
well i guess we are just people who happen to like the land and just out of the blue decided to consider it ours and have our kids killed everyday and our houses destroyed just for the sake of you know i wanna have it ...!!!!!!
The sad truth is that you hate Israel more than you love your children. If you truly loved your children, you would not consent to strap explosive vests upon them and send them to kill civilians. Show me any web citation that agrees with and documents your charge that kids are killed everyday. That is pure hate propoganda. Stop using your children as pawns in this deadly selfish game you play. By building a security wall, Israel is in a way protecting your children for you and from you. Your manner of resistence is pathetic in the extreme. Murdering civilians with children! Islam is about respect? Then why do you disrespect your children so? Shameful and pathetic.
 
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Tashah said:
I can only base my conclusions on what you write here. In the Quote below, you once again misspell Israel. Your disrespect is obvious and petty.


It is not the fault of Israel that your 'government' cannot issue legitimate and respected passports. Perhaps if the PA had not issued bogus passports to move terrorists about, more nations would honor them. You have only yourselves to blame for this predicament. As far as Arabic countries not allowing you entrance, they do what is in their best interests. I have been to every Middle East Arabic nation except the Kingdom which refuses permission for me to visit. Why is this Peaceful Muslim? Because I am Israeli? Because I am Jewish? Because I am female? Or is it a combination of all three?


First of all, I am a female. Ms. Tashah (Marat Tashah) is proper form. It is also quite evident from my avatar picture that I am female. Additionally, the female-gender ordinal sign is below that. Once again, I must conclude that your disrespect is intentional.

Secondly, it is not entirely your land. The Jewish prophet Abraham entered and settled this land eons ago. Additionally, the United Nations partitioned the Levant in 1946 creating the State of Israel and Palestine. It is through your wars of aggression that you have lost portions of Palestine. It is through your rejections of peaceful coexistence that your condition remains dismal.


What the Palestinian people say about attacking civilians and what measures they take to end this barbarity are two very different things. Since you willingly elected a terrorist organization to represent you, your pleas of innocence and aversion to terrorism fall on deaf ears.


The sad truth is that you hate Israel more than you love your children. If you truly loved your children, you would not consent to strap explosive vests upon them and send them to kill civilians. Show me any web citation that agrees with and documents your charge that kids are killed everyday. That is pure hate propoganda. Stop using your children as pawns in this deadly selfish game you play. By building a security wall, Israel is in a way protecting your children for you and from you. Your manner of resistence is pathetic in the extreme. Murdering civilians with children! Islam is about respect? Then why do you disrespect your children so? Shameful and pathetic.


Apparently you wanna accuse me for being disrespectful for any reason.. Aren't people allowed to make mistakes anymore?!?!?.. Anyways I am sorry for that didn't mean it maybe i didn't pay a good attention to names or grammar what is more important to me is the content it self..
Palestinians do not send our kids by force, those people do willingly just to correct your information.
I have a question: if i suspect in a criminal hiding in a room, is it ok for me to kill every person in that room just to make sure that person is gone???

By building a security wall, Israel is in a way protecting your children for you and from you
I do not mean to be respectful at all but for that statement i would have to say "Yeah Right"

one more thing, about SA , i do not know what is the rule there but for al i know any woman is not allowed to go there alone she should have a member of her family with her like her dad, brother, uncle, or nephew
 

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By building a security wall, Israel is in a way protecting your children for you and from you.

Peaceful Muslim said:
I do not mean to be respectful at all but for that statement i would have to say "Yeah Right"
Check the statistics for yourself. Suicide bombings inside Israel have dropped expoentially as the wall gains momentum. You fail miserably to recognize the irony of that. Somewhat unsurprising.
 

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Peaceful Muslim said:
It's the freedem of opinion "without a limit" that allowed the newspaper to print those cartoon and that is why we are boycotting..we can't allow any insult to prophet muhammed or even any other prophet as a matter of fact..

Hey, how ya doing? How's that whole "not allowing" thing going for you?

I was thinking of starting in on you, but you know what? I don't think you can deal with it. I gotta think about this.

Tashah

I seen ya down there in the basement. Get any on you?
 
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