• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Now This Is Interesting............................

Campbell

Banned
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
473
Location
East Tennessee
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The prosecution in the Zimmerman trial has opened up the possibilities of second degree murder, third degree murder, manslaughter, assault with a deadly weapon and get this.......Child Abuse.

In Florida a person is a child till they're eighteen.
 

Fenton

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
29,771
Reaction score
12,231
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The prosecution in the Zimmerman trial has opened up the possibilities of
second degree murder, third degree murder, manslaughter, assault with a deadly weapon and get this.......Child Abuse.

In Florida a person is a child till they're eighteen.

What if that "child" pounces on you " MMA style" and starts pounding your head into the concrete ?

You still have the right to defend yourself.

These "new charges" are obviously the result of people who want vengeance coming to the realization that the Prosecution couldn't prove murder.

Zimmerman will be exonerated and if that starts riots so be it.

The American public since 2008 has purchased a record amount of firearms and ammo.

If people want to riot and act like animals then let them.
 

fmw

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
12,361
Reaction score
3,358
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It it is self defense, then the name of the crime doesn't matter since it is no longer a crime. Waste of time on the part of the prosecution.
 

davidtaylorjr

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
6,775
Reaction score
1,123
Location
South Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It it is self defense, then the name of the crime doesn't matter since it is no longer a crime. Waste of time on the part of the prosecution.

It's a racial circus, that is what this whole trial is. Nonsense.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
When you got nothing throw all the crap at the wall and hope something sticks.
 

What if...?

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
29,837
Reaction score
11,313
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
What if that "child" pounces on you " MMA style" and starts pounding your head into the concrete ?

You still have the right to defend yourself.

These "new charges" are obviously the result of people who want vengeance coming to the realization that the Prosecution couldn't prove murder.

Zimmerman will be exonerated and if that starts riots so be it.

The American public since 2008 has purchased a record amount of firearms and ammo.

If people want to riot and act like animals then let them.

Rawr! You so fierce Fenton!
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Manslaughter is gonna stick.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Why would manslaughter stick ?

I've discussed my reasons for supporting a manslaughter conviction, in quite a bit of detail, elsewhere on this site.

In a nutshell, George Zimmerman strapped on a gun and walked out his door for the express purpose of looking for trouble.

That right there establishes that anything that happened subsequently was a result of Zimmerman's culpable negligence.
 

fmw

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
12,361
Reaction score
3,358
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I've discussed my reasons for supporting a manslaughter conviction, in quite a bit of detail, elsewhere on this site.

In a nutshell, George Zimmerman strapped on a gun and walked out his door for the express purpose of looking for trouble.

That right there establishes that anything that happened subsequently was a result of Zimmerman's culpable negligence.

That is speculation on your part. It is either self defense or something else. If it is self defense then none of the something else matters.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
So you suddenly became God and have some kind of unique insight into the mindset of a man heading to the grocery store - a mean that was licensed to carry a gun and always did - your God like abilities are seriously in jeopardy sorry.


I've discussed my reasons for supporting a manslaughter conviction, in quite a bit of detail, elsewhere on this site.

In a nutshell, George Zimmerman strapped on a gun and walked out his door for the express purpose of looking for trouble.

That right there establishes that anything that happened subsequently was a result of Zimmerman's culpable negligence.
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
It it is self defense, then the name of the crime doesn't matter since it is no longer a crime. Waste of time on the part of the prosecution.




Unless Zimmerman is found guilty of it, eh?

Then what is it?
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
29,999
Reaction score
10,106
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Unless Zimmerman is found guilty of it, eh?

Then what is it?
If Zimmerman if found guilty of something, we will have 3 victims of this tragic misunderstanding.
The death of Martin.
The Political prosecution of Zimmerman.
And the assault on our Justice system by mob rule (assisted by the President Obama.)
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That is speculation on your part. It is either self defense or something else. If it is self defense then none of the something else matters.

I disagree.

I think the evidence clearly demonstrates that George Zimmerman strapped on a gun and walked out his door for the express purpose of looking for trouble.

I don't think he walked out the door looking to kill anyone, I don't even think he walked out the door looking to shoot anyone.

But I think it's clear that he has some strange hero predilection and when the police department he applied to declined his application (I would have to assume for cause) and the security guard job he had fired him for being overly aggressive he set his sites on a completley unregulated and unsupervised channel through which to scratch his wanna-be law enforcement/authority figure itch - self-appointed community watch captain.

So ol' George was out there with his gun on his hip stalking the neighborhood like he was Wyatt Berry Stapp Earp looking for a cattle rustler (or teenaged kid, any port in a storm) to "bring to justice.

When he saw one he aggressively pursued the kid, in the rain, in the dark of night, and I would have to believe he scared the daylights out of the poor kid. I mean, how does this kid know that Zimmerman is the wanna-be block watch? He didn't identify himself in any way. He just crept around in the dark. I have to put myself in Martin's place and if I were a 17-year-old kid today and some middle aged guy was stalking me through the neighborhood in the dark of night my first inclination certainly wouldn't be that "Hmmm, must be the neighborhood watch". I'd think he was a murderer, a rapist, a kidnapper, whatever, something along those lines. Because let's face it, well adjusted grown men don't drive around at night looking for kids to stalk.

So Zimmerman pursued Martin, but Martin was able to get away.

It would seem as though Martin went so far as to hide in the bushes to escape from this nutcase, or at least that's what would had to have happened if Martin was later to have attacked Zimmerman from ambush.

But the only way Martin would have been in a position to have ambushed Zimmerman would be if Zimmerman had reestablished (or at least maintained, but I think there's evidence that he broke it off for a while) his pursuit.

So, after having evaded what he must have though was some kind of criminal stalker (because, again, Zimmerman hadn't identified himself in any way to the contrary), and after having thought he actually lost the guy, here comes Zimmerman again walking up the sidewalk or across the grass, creeping around, peering into dark corners, obviously still looking for Martin.

At this point Martin says to himself, "You know what? Enough off this running away. I'm going to stand my ground."

And he does.

But Zimmerman has a gun, and as we all know you don't bring a pair of fists to a gun fight.

So despite doing his best (as best as any 17-year-old kid could do) to protect and defend himself from an adult who was acting in a manner completely inconsistent with every adult I know (and probably every adult Martin knew) Martin wound up getting shot and killed.

Not "murdered" mind you. I don't think, and never have thought, that Zimmerman murdered Martin (in any degree).

But Zimmerman's culpable negligence put him in a position where a young, dumb, and full of cum 17-year-old kid thought that his only way out was to fight for his life.

If Zimmerman doesn't strap on the gun, leave the house for the express purpose of playing Junior Assistant Police Officer, doesn't (completely inexplicably) stalk a young kid through the neighborhood, in the rain, at night, doesn't fail identify himself in any way, then no shooting occurs.

Zimmerman recklessly acting without reasonable caution put Martin in a position where he was at risk of injury or death.

And that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is culpable negligence. That is manslaughter.

I rest my case.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So you suddenly became God and have some kind of unique insight into the mindset of a man heading to the grocery store - a mean that was licensed to carry a gun and always did - your God like abilities are seriously in jeopardy sorry.

Sorry brother, but I don't believe in God or any other fairy tales.
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
If Zimmerman if found guilty of something, we will have 3 victims of this tragic misunderstanding.
The death of Martin.
The Political prosecution of Zimmerman.
And the assault on our Justice system by mob rule (assisted by the President Obama.)




I have no sympathy for Zimmerman.

He created his own problems when he decided to go out on neighborhood watch when he obviously wasn't qualified for the task.

He should have stayed home.
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
If Zimmerman if found guilty of something, we will have 3 victims of this tragic misunderstanding.
The death of Martin.
The Political prosecution of Zimmerman.
And the assault on our Justice system by mob rule (assisted by the President Obama.)




Zimmerman is not a victim.

Zimmerman took on a job that he obviously wasn't capable of handling and Trayvon Martin's absolutely unnecessary death is a result of that foolish, overconfident decision
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Then you shouldn't act like one and determine what someone else believes; live your reality and stop implying its the fact of someone elses.

Sorry brother, but I don't believe in God or any other fairy tales.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Then you shouldn't act like one and determine what someone else believes; live your reality and stop implying its the fact of someone elses.

I'm not "determining what someone else believes".

I'm making a case, really only for my own benefit (though I'm sharing it here for conversation's sake), for how I perceive George Zimmerman's history of behavior leading up to his shooting of Trayvon Martin.

You're welcome to disagree with my interpretation of events and I honestly don't care if you do.

But if you're argument is that anyone infering intent or mindset from behavioral history is "acting like God" you're a little bit off your rocker.

Since you mentioned elsewhere that you teach something to cops (I have no idea what, and frankly I don't care to know) so let's take a hypothetical.

If cops are responding to a domestic violence call and the subject they're going to investigate has a history of gun crimes would those cops be better served by taking additional precautions for their own safety, say, as opposed to safety concerns they might have when reporting to a little girl's call to help get her cat out of a tree, or would they be "playing God" by infering some potential threat in that situation that they have no evidence is clearly and immediately present?

See what I mean?

What I'm doing here is something we all do every day.

What's more, it's something that the Zimmerman jury is going to be called upon to do in the next couple of days here as they analyze the evidence that's been presented to them in its totality and attempt to arrive at some kind of verdict.

Do you think they're going to be instructed to disregard all of the testimony of the character wittnesses that were called by the defense?

After all, George Zimmerman being friendly with a black woman isn't clear and compelling proof that he wasn't acting with some degree of bias the night he shot Martin.

To make the assumption that his past relationships have any bearing on the manner in which he viewed Martin on the night of the shooting would require the jury to resort to some degree of "playing God".

Your argument is just silly.

Our behavior says something about who we are. Our history says something about who we are. Our reputations say something about who we are.

As I have Zimmerman's jury is going to have to take all of that into consideration.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
29,999
Reaction score
10,106
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Zimmerman is not a victim.

Zimmerman took on a job that he obviously wasn't capable of handling and Trayvon Martin's absolutely unnecessary death is a result of that foolish, overconfident decision
I am not saying Zimmerman did not make some bad decisions, but none of his decisions broke the law.
Rightly or wrongly the evidence does not disprove Zimmerman's statement that he was assaulted, and
defended himself, thus self defense.
The original DA and Stanford PD had it correct, it was only the hue and cry of the crowd that
brought in a "Special Prosecutor".
Zimmerman is every bit a victim as Martin.
This tragic accident, a collision of bad decisions by both parties, has ended one life, and destroyed another.
The crowd forcing the Justice system to do "something" for appearance sake,
damages of system of justice.
 

Campbell

Banned
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
2,138
Reaction score
473
Location
East Tennessee
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
If Zimmerman if found guilty of something, we will have 3 victims of this tragic misunderstanding.
The death of Martin.
The Political prosecution of Zimmerman.
And the assault on our Justice system by mob rule (assisted by the President Obama.)

A bad hangover from the civil war is what assists what's going on in this country.
 

shrubnose

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
19,463
Reaction score
8,731
Location
Europe
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I am not saying Zimmerman did not make some bad decisions, but none of his decisions broke the law.
Rightly or wrongly the evidence does not disprove Zimmerman's statement that he was assaulted, and
defended himself, thus self defense.
The original DA and Stanford PD had it correct, it was only the hue and cry of the crowd that
brought in a "Special Prosecutor".
Zimmerman is every bit a victim as Martin.
This tragic accident, a collision of bad decisions by both parties, has ended one life, and destroyed another.
The crowd forcing the Justice system to do "something" for appearance sake,
damages of system of justice.




Where is Zimmerman?

Where is Martin?
 
Top Bottom