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Now They're Saying The Naval Yard Shooter Only Had A Shotgun!

Campbell

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Damn.....If he can fight off a company and the DC police and kill twelve people with a shotgun I definitely want to be on his team. NRA Influence? Surely Not!

I've never heard of a sniper using a shotgun. 'Course I'm just 79.
 
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Damn.....If he can fight off a company and the DC police and kill twelve people with a shotgun I definitely want to be on his team. NRA Influence? Surely Not!

I've never heard of a sniper using a shotgun. 'Course I'm just 79.

I haven't seen today's coverage but since a guy yesterday was talking about how he was standing next to a man talking in an alley and the man was dropped by a shot to the head, which would seem to indicate more than just a shotgun was in play.
 
Damn.....If he can fight off a company and the DC police and kill twelve people with a shotgun I definitely want to be on his team.

Random acts of sudden violence are easy.
 
Damn.....If he can fight off a company and the DC police and kill twelve people with a shotgun I definitely want to be on his team. NRA Influence? Surely Not!

I've never heard of a sniper using a shotgun. 'Course I'm just 79.

You would want to be on a deranged, lunatic dead guy's team. I'll bet you two have a lot in common.
 
I haven't seen today's coverage but since a guy yesterday was talking about how he was standing next to a man talking in an alley and the man was dropped by a shot to the head, which would seem to indicate more than just a shotgun was in play.

He had two hand guns and a shot gun. the made up stories by the gun grabbing media about him having an AR-15 was just that made up to push the assault rifle bans they been wanting
 
Todays news says he entered the base with a shotgun (how?) as a contractor, whose security clearance was renewed in June despite a history of violent episodes involving guns and being under treatment for paranoia and hearing voices.... yeah, lotta brainiac stuff going on there in DC right...


No assault rifle. FBI says he may have gotten the handgun AFTER he started shooting... probably meaning from a dead or wounded MP.
 
Todays news says he entered the base with a shotgun (how?) as a contractor, whose security clearance was renewed in June despite a history of violent episodes involving guns and being under treatment for paranoia and hearing voices.... yeah, lotta brainiac stuff going on there in DC right...


No assault rifle. FBI says he may have gotten the handgun AFTER he started shooting... probably meaning from a dead or wounded MP.

More likely from one of those civilian LE or security people you see on military installations today.
 
Todays news says he entered the base with a shotgun (how?) as a contractor, whose security clearance was renewed in June despite a history of violent episodes involving guns and being under treatment for paranoia and hearing voices.... yeah, lotta brainiac stuff going on there in DC right...


No assault rifle. FBI says he may have gotten the handgun AFTER he started shooting... probably meaning from a dead or wounded MP.

There has been a lot said about this so far, but I have yet to see what his "Security Clearance" is.

To be able to work on a military installation at all, you need a "Security Clearance", that however does not mean that the person is authorized access to classified information. In fact, the first level is nothing more then a basic background check to verify that they are who they say they are, do not have current warrants, and do not obviously raise any "red flags", like no fly list and membership with a hostile organization.

I just did a search, but have yet to hear from anything official that he possessed anything like a "Secret Clearance".

However, he did have a Secret Clearance when he was in the Navy, and once again this is into a person's background investigating things like credit, responsibility and organizations they belong to in addition to things like foreign countries visited. They are not checking for factors that may make a person snap and become violent, but for factors that may make them pose a threat for espionage.

I am interested in knowing if the Navy and VA notified anybody of his psychological condition however. As we saw in Aurora last year, one of the biggest dangers now when it comes to weapons is the fact that there is no real system to vette people who have serious psychological conditions against firearms purchases.

And yea, all current reports are saying he entered with only a shotgun, and took a 9mm from a security guard he killed on the scene.
 
There has been a lot said about this so far, but I have yet to see what his "Security Clearance" is.

To be able to work on a military installation at all, you need a "Security Clearance", that however does not mean that the person is authorized access to classified information. In fact, the first level is nothing more then a basic background check to verify that they are who they say they are, do not have current warrants, and do not obviously raise any "red flags", like no fly list and membership with a hostile organization.

I just did a search, but have yet to hear from anything official that he possessed anything like a "Secret Clearance".

However, he did have a Secret Clearance when he was in the Navy, and once again this is into a person's background investigating things like credit, responsibility and organizations they belong to in addition to things like foreign countries visited. They are not checking for factors that may make a person snap and become violent, but for factors that may make them pose a threat for espionage.

I am interested in knowing if the Navy and VA notified anybody of his psychological condition however. As we saw in Aurora last year, one of the biggest dangers now when it comes to weapons is the fact that there is no real system to vette people who have serious psychological conditions against firearms purchases.

And yea, all current reports are saying he entered with only a shotgun, and took a 9mm from a security guard he killed on the scene.

I'm all for it -- when you're paranoid, hearing voices and have insomnia, you're a mass shooter waiting to happen. We really should address this ****. There's no good reason not to.
 
I'm all for it -- when you're paranoid, hearing voices and have insomnia, you're a mass shooter waiting to happen. We really should address this ****. There's no good reason not to.

Oh yes, because who are we to decide what is a danger to others, and place this kind of stigma on a person?

Now realize I do not believe that, but that is going to be the kneejerk reaction from the other side I am sure. They blame the weapon instead of the person using the weapon.

Which is funny, because I have left my gun alone for a great many months and even years, and it has never once got up and killed anybody.
 
I'm all for it -- when you're paranoid, hearing voices and have insomnia, you're a mass shooter waiting to happen. We really should address this ****. There's no good reason not to.

Especially if you're a family member of those gunned down at VPI, Columbine, etc.

For Comparison:

Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12

There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).

MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA IN 2013
Number 1: 1/1/13, Desmen Noble, Damian Bell, 1 dead 4 injured, Lorain, OH
Number 2: 1/5/13, Sonny Archuleta, 4 dead, Aurora, CO
Number 3: 1/7/13, Cedric and James Poore (brothers), 4 dead, Tulsa, OK
Number 4: 1/7/13, Sandra Palmer, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensboro, NC
Number 5: 1/7/13, Herbert Bland Jr., 23, 3 dead 1 injured, Dinwiddie, VA
Number 6: 1/19/13, Nehemiah Griego, 5 dead, Albuquerque, NM
Number 7: 1/27/13, Wilbert Thibodeaux, 1 dead 3 injured, Charenton, LA
Number 8: 1/30/13, Douglas Harmon, 3 dead 1 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 9: 2/1/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 10: 2/2/13, Sundra Payne, 5 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 11: 2/3/13, Jackie Spears & Kelcie Stewart, 2 dead 2 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 12: 2/3/13, Christopher Dorner, 5 dead 4 injured, Began in Riverside, CA
Number 13: 2/6/13, Mayra Perez, 3 dead 1 injured, Denver, CO
Number 14: 2/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 15: 2/9/13, Malcolm Hall, Brandon Brown, Deron Bridgewater, 4 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 16: 2/11/13, Thomas Matusiewicz, 3 dead 2 injured, Wilmington, DE
Number 17: 2/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 18: 2/11/13, Nhan Lap Tran, 1 dead 4 injured, Oakdale, MN
Number 19: 2/12/13, Two suspects, David Fresques in custody and Davis Fotu at large, 3 dead 1 injured, Suburban Salt Lake City(Midvale), UT
Number 20: 2/13/13, Joseph Matteson, 2 dead 2 injured, Red Springs, NC
Number 21: 2/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Winston-Salem, NC
Number 22: 2/19/13, Ali Sayed, 4 dead 3 injured, Tustin, CA
Number 23: 2/21/13, Mark Hopkins, 1 dead 3 injured, Tulsa, OK
Number 24: 2/21/13, Carlos Zuniga, 2 dead 2 injured, Miami, FL
Number 25: 2/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Grand Rapids, MI
Number 26: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Lancaster, CA
Number 27: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 28: 2/24/13, Unknown, 8 injured, Macon, GA
Number 29: 3/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Shreveport, LA
Number 30: 3/3/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Houston, TX
Number 31: 3/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Moultrie, GA
Number 32: 3/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 33: 3/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Banos, CA
Number 34: 3/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 35: 3/5/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Fuquay-Varina, NC
Number 36: 3/7/13, Joshua Hurst, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, MS
Number 37: 3/8/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Buffalo, NY
Number 38: 3/10/13, Taleb Salameh, 3 dead 1 injured, North Liberty, IA
Number 39: 3/11/13, Andrew Davon Allen and Craig Willson, 13 injured, Washington, DC
Number 40: 3/11/13, Taleb Hussein Yousef Salameh, 1 dead 3 injured, Iowa City, IA
Number 41: 3/13/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, San Diego, CA
Number 42: 3/13/13, Kurt Myers, 5 dead 2 injured, Herkimer, NY
Number 43: 3/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 44: 3/15/13, Angelica Vazquez, 4 dead, Mesquite, TX
Number 45: 3/16/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Galt, CA
Number 46: 3/17/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Belle Glade, FL
Number 47: 3/17/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 48: 3/20/13, Brandon Menefee, 3 dead 1 injured, Jefferson County, AL
Number 49: 3/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 50: 3/21/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 51: 3/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, New York, NY
Number 52: 3/26/13, Unknown, 4 injured, St. Petersberg, FL
Number 53: 3/31/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Merced County, CA
Number 54: 3/31/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Auburn, WA
Number 55: 4/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead 1 injured, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Number 56: 4/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Greenwood, S.C.
Number 57: 4/6/13, Unknown spree shooter, 4 injured, Philadelphia
Number 58: 4/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Long Beach, CA
Number 59: 4/7/13, 1 in custody, name withheld, 1 dead 3 injured, Manhatten, Kansas
Number 60: 4/9/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Philadelphia, PA
Number 61: 4/10/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 62: 4/13/13, Trenton Ore, Joven Covington, 5 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 63: 4/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Merced, CA
Number 64: 4/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Lexington, KY
Number 65: 4/14/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 66: 4/18/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Akron, OH
Number 67: 4/20/13, Christine Squire, 2 dead 2 injured, Richmond, VA
Number 68: 4/20/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 69: 4/21/13, Unknown, 5 dead 2 injured, Federal Way, WA
Number 70: 4/22/13, Davante Robertson, Charlie A. Gumms, Frankie Hookman, Jr and Lashawn Davis, 5 injured, Havey, Louisiana
Number 71: 4/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Englewood, Illinois
Number 72: 4/24/13, Rick Odell Smith, 6 dead 1 injured, Manchester, IL
Number 73: 4/25/13, Sean M. Woodings, 4 injured, Oberlin, Ohio
Number 74: 4/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Williston, FL
Number 75: 4/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 76: 4/28/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, Tennessee
Number 77: 4/28/13, Neville Lynch, Mark Rose, 4 injured, Lauderdale Lakes, FL
Number 78: 4/28/13, Unknown drive-by, 1 dead 3 injured, Chester, PA
Number 79: 5/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 80: 5/4/13, Krystal Olymica David, 4 injured, Smithfield, NC
Number 81: 5/4/13, Unknown drive-by, 4 dead 6 injured, Aguas Buenas, PR
Number 82: 5/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 83: 5/5/13, Unknown drive-by, 6 injured, E. Palo Alto, CA
Number 84: 5/6/13, Two boys, 10, 11, 4 injured, Ocean Township, NJ
Number 85: 5/6/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Johnstown, PA
Number 86: 5/8/13, Ralph Robert Warren III, 4 dead, Hendersonville, NC
Number 87: 5/10/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Harbor Gateway (Los Angeles), CA
Number 88: 5/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, East Germantown, PA
Number 89: 5/11/13, Samuel E. Sallee, 4 dead, Waynesville, IN
Number 90: 5/12/13, Unknown, 19 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 91: 5/12/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 92: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hollister, CA
Number 93: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Jersey City, NJ
Number 94: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Apache Junction, AZ
Number 95: 5/13/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Winton Hills, OH
Number 96: 5/15/13, Arrest made 5/21, 1 dead 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 97: 5/15/13, Jeremiah Bean, 5 dead, Fernley, NV
Number 98: 5/16/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Philladelphia, PA
Number 99: 5/18/13, Unknown, 3 dead 3 injured, Las Piedras, PR
Number 100: 5/19/13, Codarrell Lee Yates, 4 injured, Lunenburg, VA
Number 101: 5/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 102: 5/19/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, South Memphis, TN
Number 103: 5/20/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 104: 5/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madison County, AL
Number 105: 5/23/13, Evellis T. McGee and Karon D. Thomas, 1 dead 3 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 106: 5/23/13, Jason Brian Holt, 2 dead 2 injured, Knoxville, TN
Number 107: 5/24/13, Julio Jesus Romero, 2 dead 2 injured, Bakersfield, CA
Number 108: 5/25/13, Antonio King Green, 1 dead 3 injured, Flint, MI
Number 109: 5/25/13, Ryan Taybron, 15, and Eric Nixon, 17, 1 dead 4 injured, Hampton, VA
Number 110: 5/26/13, Esteban J. Smith, 3 dead 5 injured, Eden, TX & Jacksonville, NC
Number 111: 5/28/13, Unknown, 5 dead, Sells, AZ
Number 112: 5/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 113: 5/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago (Bronzeville), IL
Number 114: 5/31/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Atlanta, GA
Number 115: 6/1/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 116: 6/1/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Milwaukee, WI
Number 117: 6/2/13, Xavier Edmondson and Lewis Antonio, 7 injured, LaGrange, GA
Number 118: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 119: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 120: 6/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Roanoke, VA
Number 121: 6/3/13, Manuel Mata III, 2 dead 2 injured, Las Vegas, NV
Number 122: 6/4/13, Johnny Simpson, 2 dead 2 injured, Shoreview, MN
Number 123: 6/5/13, St. Charles resident, 10 injured, Elburn, IL
Number 124: 6/7/13, John Zawahri, 5 dead 5 injured, Santa Monica, CA
Number 125: 6/9/13, Unknown, 4 injured, York City, PA
Number 126: 6/10/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 127: 6/10/13, Davonta Coleman, 6 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 128: 6/11/13, David Andrus, 4 dead, Darien, IL
Number 129: 6/12/13, Ahmed Dirir, 4 dead, St. Louis, MO
Number 130: 6/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, High Point, NC
Number 131: 6/15/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Houston, TX
Number 132: 6/15/13, Earnest Woodley, 4 injured, Nashville, TN
Number 133: 6/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 134: 6/18/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Berkeley, MO
Number 135: 6/19/13, Gary W. Stewart Jr., 3 dead 1 injured, Louisville, KY
Number 136: 6/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, (Kelvyn Park) Chicago, IL
Number 137: 6/21/13, Darren Lamont Roberts and Kyle Edward Thornton, 6 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 138: 6/22/13, Lakim Anthony Faust, 5 injured, Greenville, NC
Number 139: 6/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Providence, RI
Number 140: 6/22/13, Kamal “Rico” Edge, 1 dead 4 injured, Paterson, NJ
Number 141: 6/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 142: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chattanooga, TN
Number 143: 6/23/13, Elijah Rodgers, 1 dead 3 injured, Sacramento, CA
Number 144: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 8 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 145: 6/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Gentilly, LA
Number 146: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 147: 6/24/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 148: 6/25/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 149: 6/27/13, Manuel Talamantez, Christina Martinez, 2 dead 2 injured, Three Rivers, CA
Number 150: 6/27/13, Tierra Fallin, 1 dead 3 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 151: 6/28/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 152: 6/29/13, Ronald Reid, Barry Stinson, 3 dead 1 injured, North Charleston, SC
Number 153: 6/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Aurora, CO
Number 154: 6/30/13, Unknown, 9 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 155: 7/1/13, Amos Wells, 4 dead, Fort Worth, TX
Number 156: 7/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Montgomery, AL
Number 157: 7/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Calais, Maine
Number 158: 7/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Woodlawn, IL
Number 159: 7/4/13, Robert Marion Naylor, 1 dead 6 injured, Pontiac, MI
Number 160: 7/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Macon, GA
Number 161: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 162: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Angeles, CA
Number 163: 7/6/13, Brandon Reese, 1 dead 3 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 164: 7/6/13, Chauncy Laray Mitchell, 4 injured, Florence, AL
Number 165: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Pompano Beach, FL
Number 166: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 167: 7/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Meridian, Miss.
Number 168: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 169: 7/9/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Rockford, IL
Number 170: 7/9/13, Lamont Jones, 4 injured, Balimore, MD
Number 171: 7/10/13, Konrad Schafer, 15, and David Damus, 20, 2 dead 12 injured, Kissimmee, FL
Number 172: 7/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 173: 7/12/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensburg, KY
Number 174: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Hamilton Township, NJ
Number 175: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, San Francicsco, CA
Number 176: 7/13/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oklahoma City, OK
Number 177: 7/13/13, Unknown, 5 dead 1 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 178: 7/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Washington DC
Number 179: 7/14/13, Suspect in custody., 5 injured, Kentwood, MI
Number 180: 7/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Wichita, KS
Number 181: 7/14/13, Phillip Brierly Jr., 2 dead 2 injured, Lexington, SC
Number 182: 7/17/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 183: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madera, CA
Number 184: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hartford, CT
Number 185: 7/20/13, Devin Spann, 5 injured, Campbell, OH
Number 186: 7/21/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Brooklyn (Bushwick), NY
Number 187: 7/21/13, Terrence Lynom, Angelo Clark, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 188: 7/21/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Fort Pierce, FL
Number 189: 7/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Brooklyn (Crown Heights), NY
Number 190: 7/24/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Topeka, KS
Number 191: 7/25/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Inkster, MI
Number 192: 7/26/13, Sidney A. Muller, 4 dead, Clarksburg, WV
Number 193: 7/26/13, Unknown, 7 dead, Hialea, FL
Number 194: 7/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Farmington, NM
Number 195: 7/28/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Granger, WA
Number 196: 7/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Irvington, NJ
Number 197: 7/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 198: 7/30/13, Parrish Chee, 4 injured, Lea County (Hobbs), NM
Number 199: 8/2/13, Tristan Crayton, 4 injured, Broad Ripple, IN
Number 200: 8/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Whitesburg, KY
Number 201: 8/2/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 202: 8/3/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Detriot, MI
Number 203: 8/4/13, Giovanni Pacheco, 3 dead 4 injured, Salinas, CA
Number 204: 8/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, Mo
Number 205: 8/5/13, Suspect known., 4 injured, Montclair, NJ
Number 206: 8/5/13, Rockne Newell, 3 dead 4 injured, Ross Township, PA
Number 207: 8/7/13, Erbie Bowser, 4 dead 4 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 208: 8/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Wilmington, Del.
Number 209: 8/11/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 210: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Portsmouth, VA
Number 211: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Flatbush, NY
Number 212: 8/11/13, Nikko Jenkins, 4 dead, Omaha, NE
Number 213: 8/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Cincinnati, OH


Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12
There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).
 
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More likely from one of those civilian LE or security people you see on military installations today.

Aren't the "good guys with guns" supposed to stop the bad guys with guns? They're not supposed to be a supply of them, I'm sure of that!
 
Especially if you're a family member of those gunned down at VPI, Columbine, etc.

For Comparison:

Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12
There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).

MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA IN 2013
Number 1: 1/1/13, Desmen Noble, Damian Bell, 1 dead 4 injured, Lorain, OH
Number 2: 1/5/13, Sonny Archuleta, 4 dead, Aurora, CO
Number 3: 1/7/13, Cedric and James Poore (brothers), 4 dead, Tulsa, OK
Number 4: 1/7/13, Sandra Palmer, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensboro, NC
Number 5: 1/7/13, Herbert Bland Jr., 23, 3 dead 1 injured, Dinwiddie, VA
Number 6: 1/19/13, Nehemiah Griego, 5 dead, Albuquerque, NM
Number 7: 1/27/13, Wilbert Thibodeaux, 1 dead 3 injured, Charenton, LA
Number 8: 1/30/13, Douglas Harmon, 3 dead 1 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 9: 2/1/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 10: 2/2/13, Sundra Payne, 5 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 11: 2/3/13, Jackie Spears & Kelcie Stewart, 2 dead 2 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 12: 2/3/13, Christopher Dorner, 5 dead 4 injured, Began in Riverside, CA
Number 13: 2/6/13, Mayra Perez, 3 dead 1 injured, Denver, CO
Number 14: 2/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 15: 2/9/13, Malcolm Hall, Brandon Brown, Deron Bridgewater, 4 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 16: 2/11/13, Thomas Matusiewicz, 3 dead 2 injured, Wilmington, DE
Number 17: 2/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 18: 2/11/13, Nhan Lap Tran, 1 dead 4 injured, Oakdale, MN
Number 19: 2/12/13, Two suspects, David Fresques in custody and Davis Fotu at large, 3 dead 1 injured, Suburban Salt Lake City(Midvale), UT
Number 20: 2/13/13, Joseph Matteson, 2 dead 2 injured, Red Springs, NC
Number 21: 2/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Winston-Salem, NC
Number 22: 2/19/13, Ali Sayed, 4 dead 3 injured, Tustin, CA
Number 23: 2/21/13, Mark Hopkins, 1 dead 3 injured, Tulsa, OK
Number 24: 2/21/13, Carlos Zuniga, 2 dead 2 injured, Miami, FL
Number 25: 2/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Grand Rapids, MI
Number 26: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Lancaster, CA
Number 27: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 28: 2/24/13, Unknown, 8 injured, Macon, GA
Number 29: 3/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Shreveport, LA
Number 30: 3/3/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Houston, TX
Number 31: 3/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Moultrie, GA
Number 32: 3/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 33: 3/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Banos, CA
Number 34: 3/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 35: 3/5/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Fuquay-Varina, NC
Number 36: 3/7/13, Joshua Hurst, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, MS
Number 37: 3/8/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Buffalo, NY
Number 38: 3/10/13, Taleb Salameh, 3 dead 1 injured, North Liberty, IA
Number 39: 3/11/13, Andrew Davon Allen and Craig Willson, 13 injured, Washington, DC
Number 40: 3/11/13, Taleb Hussein Yousef Salameh, 1 dead 3 injured, Iowa City, IA
Number 41: 3/13/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, San Diego, CA
Number 42: 3/13/13, Kurt Myers, 5 dead 2 injured, Herkimer, NY
Number 43: 3/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 44: 3/15/13, Angelica Vazquez, 4 dead, Mesquite, TX
Number 45: 3/16/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Galt, CA
Number 46: 3/17/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Belle Glade, FL
Number 47: 3/17/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 48: 3/20/13, Brandon Menefee, 3 dead 1 injured, Jefferson County, AL
Number 49: 3/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 50: 3/21/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 51: 3/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, New York, NY
Number 52: 3/26/13, Unknown, 4 injured, St. Petersberg, FL
Number 53: 3/31/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Merced County, CA
Number 54: 3/31/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Auburn, WA
Number 55: 4/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead 1 injured, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Number 56: 4/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Greenwood, S.C.
Number 57: 4/6/13, Unknown spree shooter, 4 injured, Philadelphia
Number 58: 4/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Long Beach, CA
Number 59: 4/7/13, 1 in custody, name withheld, 1 dead 3 injured, Manhatten, Kansas
Number 60: 4/9/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Philadelphia, PA
Number 61: 4/10/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 62: 4/13/13, Trenton Ore, Joven Covington, 5 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 63: 4/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Merced, CA
Number 64: 4/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Lexington, KY
Number 65: 4/14/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 66: 4/18/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Akron, OH
Number 67: 4/20/13, Christine Squire, 2 dead 2 injured, Richmond, VA
Number 68: 4/20/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 69: 4/21/13, Unknown, 5 dead 2 injured, Federal Way, WA
Number 70: 4/22/13, Davante Robertson, Charlie A. Gumms, Frankie Hookman, Jr and Lashawn Davis, 5 injured, Havey, Louisiana
Number 71: 4/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Englewood, Illinois
Number 72: 4/24/13, Rick Odell Smith, 6 dead 1 injured, Manchester, IL
Number 73: 4/25/13, Sean M. Woodings, 4 injured, Oberlin, Ohio
Number 74: 4/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Williston, FL
Number 75: 4/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 76: 4/28/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, Tennessee
Number 77: 4/28/13, Neville Lynch, Mark Rose, 4 injured, Lauderdale Lakes, FL
Number 78: 4/28/13, Unknown drive-by, 1 dead 3 injured, Chester, PA
Number 79: 5/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 80: 5/4/13, Krystal Olymica David, 4 injured, Smithfield, NC
Number 81: 5/4/13, Unknown drive-by, 4 dead 6 injured, Aguas Buenas, PR
Number 82: 5/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 83: 5/5/13, Unknown drive-by, 6 injured, E. Palo Alto, CA
Number 84: 5/6/13, Two boys, 10, 11, 4 injured, Ocean Township, NJ
Number 85: 5/6/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Johnstown, PA
Number 86: 5/8/13, Ralph Robert Warren III, 4 dead, Hendersonville, NC
Number 87: 5/10/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Harbor Gateway (Los Angeles), CA
Number 88: 5/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, East Germantown, PA
Number 89: 5/11/13, Samuel E. Sallee, 4 dead, Waynesville, IN
Number 90: 5/12/13, Unknown, 19 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 91: 5/12/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 92: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hollister, CA
Number 93: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Jersey City, NJ
Number 94: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Apache Junction, AZ
Number 95: 5/13/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Winton Hills, OH
Number 96: 5/15/13, Arrest made 5/21, 1 dead 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 97: 5/15/13, Jeremiah Bean, 5 dead, Fernley, NV
Number 98: 5/16/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Philladelphia, PA
Number 99: 5/18/13, Unknown, 3 dead 3 injured, Las Piedras, PR
Number 100: 5/19/13, Codarrell Lee Yates, 4 injured, Lunenburg, VA
Number 101: 5/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 102: 5/19/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, South Memphis, TN
Number 103: 5/20/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 104: 5/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madison County, AL
Number 105: 5/23/13, Evellis T. McGee and Karon D. Thomas, 1 dead 3 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 106: 5/23/13, Jason Brian Holt, 2 dead 2 injured, Knoxville, TN
Number 107: 5/24/13, Julio Jesus Romero, 2 dead 2 injured, Bakersfield, CA
Number 108: 5/25/13, Antonio King Green, 1 dead 3 injured, Flint, MI
Number 109: 5/25/13, Ryan Taybron, 15, and Eric Nixon, 17, 1 dead 4 injured, Hampton, VA
Number 110: 5/26/13, Esteban J. Smith, 3 dead 5 injured, Eden, TX & Jacksonville, NC
Number 111: 5/28/13, Unknown, 5 dead, Sells, AZ
Number 112: 5/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 113: 5/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago (Bronzeville), IL
Number 114: 5/31/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Atlanta, GA
Number 115: 6/1/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 116: 6/1/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Milwaukee, WI
Number 117: 6/2/13, Xavier Edmondson and Lewis Antonio, 7 injured, LaGrange, GA
Number 118: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 119: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 120: 6/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Roanoke, VA
Number 121: 6/3/13, Manuel Mata III, 2 dead 2 injured, Las Vegas, NV
Number 122: 6/4/13, Johnny Simpson, 2 dead 2 injured, Shoreview, MN
Number 123: 6/5/13, St. Charles resident, 10 injured, Elburn, IL
Number 124: 6/7/13, John Zawahri, 5 dead 5 injured, Santa Monica, CA
Number 125: 6/9/13, Unknown, 4 injured, York City, PA
Number 126: 6/10/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 127: 6/10/13, Davonta Coleman, 6 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 128: 6/11/13, David Andrus, 4 dead, Darien, IL
Number 129: 6/12/13, Ahmed Dirir, 4 dead, St. Louis, MO
Number 130: 6/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, High Point, NC
Number 131: 6/15/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Houston, TX
Number 132: 6/15/13, Earnest Woodley, 4 injured, Nashville, TN
Number 133: 6/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 134: 6/18/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Berkeley, MO
Number 135: 6/19/13, Gary W. Stewart Jr., 3 dead 1 injured, Louisville, KY
Number 136: 6/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, (Kelvyn Park) Chicago, IL
Number 137: 6/21/13, Darren Lamont Roberts and Kyle Edward Thornton, 6 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 138: 6/22/13, Lakim Anthony Faust, 5 injured, Greenville, NC
Number 139: 6/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Providence, RI
Number 140: 6/22/13, Kamal “Rico” Edge, 1 dead 4 injured, Paterson, NJ
Number 141: 6/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 142: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chattanooga, TN
Number 143: 6/23/13, Elijah Rodgers, 1 dead 3 injured, Sacramento, CA
Number 144: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 8 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 145: 6/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Gentilly, LA
Number 146: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 147: 6/24/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 148: 6/25/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 149: 6/27/13, Manuel Talamantez, Christina Martinez, 2 dead 2 injured, Three Rivers, CA
Number 150: 6/27/13, Tierra Fallin, 1 dead 3 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 151: 6/28/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 152: 6/29/13, Ronald Reid, Barry Stinson, 3 dead 1 injured, North Charleston, SC
Number 153: 6/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Aurora, CO
Number 154: 6/30/13, Unknown, 9 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 155: 7/1/13, Amos Wells, 4 dead, Fort Worth, TX
Number 156: 7/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Montgomery, AL
Number 157: 7/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Calais, Maine
Number 158: 7/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Woodlawn, IL
Number 159: 7/4/13, Robert Marion Naylor, 1 dead 6 injured, Pontiac, MI
Number 160: 7/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Macon, GA
Number 161: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 162: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Angeles, CA
Number 163: 7/6/13, Brandon Reese, 1 dead 3 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 164: 7/6/13, Chauncy Laray Mitchell, 4 injured, Florence, AL
Number 165: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Pompano Beach, FL
Number 166: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 167: 7/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Meridian, Miss.
Number 168: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 169: 7/9/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Rockford, IL
Number 170: 7/9/13, Lamont Jones, 4 injured, Balimore, MD
Number 171: 7/10/13, Konrad Schafer, 15, and David Damus, 20, 2 dead 12 injured, Kissimmee, FL
Number 172: 7/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 173: 7/12/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensburg, KY
Number 174: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Hamilton Township, NJ
Number 175: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, San Francicsco, CA
Number 176: 7/13/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oklahoma City, OK
Number 177: 7/13/13, Unknown, 5 dead 1 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 178: 7/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Washington DC
Number 179: 7/14/13, Suspect in custody., 5 injured, Kentwood, MI
Number 180: 7/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Wichita, KS
Number 181: 7/14/13, Phillip Brierly Jr., 2 dead 2 injured, Lexington, SC
Number 182: 7/17/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 183: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madera, CA
Number 184: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hartford, CT
Number 185: 7/20/13, Devin Spann, 5 injured, Campbell, OH
Number 186: 7/21/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Brooklyn (Bushwick), NY
Number 187: 7/21/13, Terrence Lynom, Angelo Clark, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 188: 7/21/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Fort Pierce, FL
Number 189: 7/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Brooklyn (Crown Heights), NY
Number 190: 7/24/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Topeka, KS
Number 191: 7/25/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Inkster, MI
Number 192: 7/26/13, Sidney A. Muller, 4 dead, Clarksburg, WV
Number 193: 7/26/13, Unknown, 7 dead, Hialea, FL
Number 194: 7/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Farmington, NM
Number 195: 7/28/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Granger, WA
Number 196: 7/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Irvington, NJ
Number 197: 7/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 198: 7/30/13, Parrish Chee, 4 injured, Lea County (Hobbs), NM
Number 199: 8/2/13, Tristan Crayton, 4 injured, Broad Ripple, IN
Number 200: 8/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Whitesburg, KY
Number 201: 8/2/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 202: 8/3/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Detriot, MI
Number 203: 8/4/13, Giovanni Pacheco, 3 dead 4 injured, Salinas, CA
Number 204: 8/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, Mo
Number 205: 8/5/13, Suspect known., 4 injured, Montclair, NJ
Number 206: 8/5/13, Rockne Newell, 3 dead 4 injured, Ross Township, PA
Number 207: 8/7/13, Erbie Bowser, 4 dead 4 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 208: 8/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Wilmington, Del.
Number 209: 8/11/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 210: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Portsmouth, VA
Number 211: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Flatbush, NY
Number 212: 8/11/13, Nikko Jenkins, 4 dead, Omaha, NE
Number 213: 8/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Cincinnati, OH


Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12
There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).
So in 94% of the cases, murderers still managed to find a way to get the job done. Well...that sucks.
 
Aren't the "good guys with guns" supposed to stop the bad guys with guns? They're not supposed to be a supply of them, I'm sure of that!

The reason I believe that the pistol was taken from a DOD civilian security or police officer is because any member of the U.S. military can not surrender his weapon to anyone. During war time he can not surrender as long there is a means of resisting. If there's still one round in your rifle, you can still fight. And don't believe Obama about bayonets, they are still used.

During peace time when a member of the military is standing post, he can't surrender his weapon to anyone without permission from the Officer of the Day. If that Marine, soldier, sailor or airman loses possession of his weapon he better be dead or bleeding to death.

Why should we go back to when the system wasn't broke, when the military policed themselves ?

In my life time I have never heard of a civilian law enforcement officer ever willing to give his life to save another civilian's life. Soldiers and Marines do it all of the time, giving their lives to save the lives of those around them.

Unlike civilian law enforcement, the American soldier advances towards the sound of gunfire and engages the enemy. Civilians don't react fast enough, they wait for reinforcement or SWATT or hoping that the lunch whistle will go off.

It's time to end this social engineering of having civilians guarding the gates, providing perimeter security and providing interior security on military installations. It worked extremely well in the U.S. military when the military policed themselves for over two hundred years.
 
Damn.....If he can fight off a company and the DC police and kill twelve people with a shotgun I definitely want to be on his team. NRA Influence? Surely Not!

I've never heard of a sniper using a shotgun. 'Course I'm just 79.

Cuz Joe Biden told him to use a shotgun ... remember?
btw ... he may have used the shotgun to kill a guard(s) for other gun(s) ... feel better?
 
The reason I believe that the pistol was taken from a DOD civilian security or police officer is because any member of the U.S. military can not surrender his weapon to anyone. During war time he can not surrender as long there is a means of resisting.

Sorry, fail.

From the reports I have seen he took it off of the body of one of the security guards who he had killed.
 
Sorry, fail.

From the reports I have seen he took it off of the body of one of the security guards who he had killed.

He was a civilian. The Dept. of the Navy reported that no members of the military were killed, wounded or injuried.
 
Especially if you're a family member of those gunned down at VPI, Columbine, etc.

For Comparison:

Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12

There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).

[snip...]

The other 94% of murder victims were quite relieved to know that they were not "mainly" shot.
 
There were no survivors on his team. You might want to think about that or you won't see 80. ;)
 
He was a civilian. The Dept. of the Navy reported that no members of the military were killed, wounded or injuried.

I did not say he was not a civilian. But hard to say it was "surrendered" when from what I have read he was killed before it was taken.
 
I did not say he was not a civilian. But hard to say it was "surrendered" when from what I have read he was killed before it was taken.

I just checked on the USNI Blog which has continuing updating on the Navy Yard shooting. The civilian "police officer" was just wounded and at 1157 hours EST this morning, was reported "was going to be OK."

What I'm trying to confirm, was he shot by his own service pistol ?

I've heard this but you know you can't believe everything you hear this early in the game and the federal government has an awful track history of being honest with the citizens of this country under the current administration.
 
I haven't seen today's coverage but since a guy yesterday was talking about how he was standing next to a man talking in an alley and the man was dropped by a shot to the head, which would seem to indicate more than just a shotgun was in play.

He could definitely have dropped a man with a slug to the head. So it depends on what kind of shotgun shells he was using.
 
Especially if you're a family member of those gunned down at VPI, Columbine, etc.

For Comparison:

Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12

There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).

MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA IN 2013
Number 1: 1/1/13, Desmen Noble, Damian Bell, 1 dead 4 injured, Lorain, OH
Number 2: 1/5/13, Sonny Archuleta, 4 dead, Aurora, CO
Number 3: 1/7/13, Cedric and James Poore (brothers), 4 dead, Tulsa, OK
Number 4: 1/7/13, Sandra Palmer, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensboro, NC
Number 5: 1/7/13, Herbert Bland Jr., 23, 3 dead 1 injured, Dinwiddie, VA
Number 6: 1/19/13, Nehemiah Griego, 5 dead, Albuquerque, NM
Number 7: 1/27/13, Wilbert Thibodeaux, 1 dead 3 injured, Charenton, LA
Number 8: 1/30/13, Douglas Harmon, 3 dead 1 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 9: 2/1/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 10: 2/2/13, Sundra Payne, 5 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 11: 2/3/13, Jackie Spears & Kelcie Stewart, 2 dead 2 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 12: 2/3/13, Christopher Dorner, 5 dead 4 injured, Began in Riverside, CA
Number 13: 2/6/13, Mayra Perez, 3 dead 1 injured, Denver, CO
Number 14: 2/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 15: 2/9/13, Malcolm Hall, Brandon Brown, Deron Bridgewater, 4 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 16: 2/11/13, Thomas Matusiewicz, 3 dead 2 injured, Wilmington, DE
Number 17: 2/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 18: 2/11/13, Nhan Lap Tran, 1 dead 4 injured, Oakdale, MN
Number 19: 2/12/13, Two suspects, David Fresques in custody and Davis Fotu at large, 3 dead 1 injured, Suburban Salt Lake City(Midvale), UT
Number 20: 2/13/13, Joseph Matteson, 2 dead 2 injured, Red Springs, NC
Number 21: 2/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Winston-Salem, NC
Number 22: 2/19/13, Ali Sayed, 4 dead 3 injured, Tustin, CA
Number 23: 2/21/13, Mark Hopkins, 1 dead 3 injured, Tulsa, OK
Number 24: 2/21/13, Carlos Zuniga, 2 dead 2 injured, Miami, FL
Number 25: 2/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Grand Rapids, MI
Number 26: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Lancaster, CA
Number 27: 2/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 28: 2/24/13, Unknown, 8 injured, Macon, GA
Number 29: 3/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Shreveport, LA
Number 30: 3/3/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Houston, TX
Number 31: 3/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Moultrie, GA
Number 32: 3/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 33: 3/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Banos, CA
Number 34: 3/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 35: 3/5/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Fuquay-Varina, NC
Number 36: 3/7/13, Joshua Hurst, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, MS
Number 37: 3/8/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Buffalo, NY
Number 38: 3/10/13, Taleb Salameh, 3 dead 1 injured, North Liberty, IA
Number 39: 3/11/13, Andrew Davon Allen and Craig Willson, 13 injured, Washington, DC
Number 40: 3/11/13, Taleb Hussein Yousef Salameh, 1 dead 3 injured, Iowa City, IA
Number 41: 3/13/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, San Diego, CA
Number 42: 3/13/13, Kurt Myers, 5 dead 2 injured, Herkimer, NY
Number 43: 3/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 44: 3/15/13, Angelica Vazquez, 4 dead, Mesquite, TX
Number 45: 3/16/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Galt, CA
Number 46: 3/17/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Belle Glade, FL
Number 47: 3/17/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 48: 3/20/13, Brandon Menefee, 3 dead 1 injured, Jefferson County, AL
Number 49: 3/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 50: 3/21/13, Unknown, 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 51: 3/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, New York, NY
Number 52: 3/26/13, Unknown, 4 injured, St. Petersberg, FL
Number 53: 3/31/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Merced County, CA
Number 54: 3/31/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Auburn, WA
Number 55: 4/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead 1 injured, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Number 56: 4/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Greenwood, S.C.
Number 57: 4/6/13, Unknown spree shooter, 4 injured, Philadelphia
Number 58: 4/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Long Beach, CA
Number 59: 4/7/13, 1 in custody, name withheld, 1 dead 3 injured, Manhatten, Kansas
Number 60: 4/9/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Philadelphia, PA
Number 61: 4/10/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 62: 4/13/13, Trenton Ore, Joven Covington, 5 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 63: 4/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Merced, CA
Number 64: 4/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Lexington, KY
Number 65: 4/14/13, Unknown, 2 dead 4 injured, Phoenix, AZ
Number 66: 4/18/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Akron, OH
Number 67: 4/20/13, Christine Squire, 2 dead 2 injured, Richmond, VA
Number 68: 4/20/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Modesto, CA
Number 69: 4/21/13, Unknown, 5 dead 2 injured, Federal Way, WA
Number 70: 4/22/13, Davante Robertson, Charlie A. Gumms, Frankie Hookman, Jr and Lashawn Davis, 5 injured, Havey, Louisiana
Number 71: 4/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Englewood, Illinois
Number 72: 4/24/13, Rick Odell Smith, 6 dead 1 injured, Manchester, IL
Number 73: 4/25/13, Sean M. Woodings, 4 injured, Oberlin, Ohio
Number 74: 4/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Williston, FL
Number 75: 4/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 76: 4/28/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Jackson, Tennessee
Number 77: 4/28/13, Neville Lynch, Mark Rose, 4 injured, Lauderdale Lakes, FL
Number 78: 4/28/13, Unknown drive-by, 1 dead 3 injured, Chester, PA
Number 79: 5/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 80: 5/4/13, Krystal Olymica David, 4 injured, Smithfield, NC
Number 81: 5/4/13, Unknown drive-by, 4 dead 6 injured, Aguas Buenas, PR
Number 82: 5/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 83: 5/5/13, Unknown drive-by, 6 injured, E. Palo Alto, CA
Number 84: 5/6/13, Two boys, 10, 11, 4 injured, Ocean Township, NJ
Number 85: 5/6/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Johnstown, PA
Number 86: 5/8/13, Ralph Robert Warren III, 4 dead, Hendersonville, NC
Number 87: 5/10/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Harbor Gateway (Los Angeles), CA
Number 88: 5/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, East Germantown, PA
Number 89: 5/11/13, Samuel E. Sallee, 4 dead, Waynesville, IN
Number 90: 5/12/13, Unknown, 19 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 91: 5/12/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 92: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hollister, CA
Number 93: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Jersey City, NJ
Number 94: 5/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Apache Junction, AZ
Number 95: 5/13/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Winton Hills, OH
Number 96: 5/15/13, Arrest made 5/21, 1 dead 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 97: 5/15/13, Jeremiah Bean, 5 dead, Fernley, NV
Number 98: 5/16/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Philladelphia, PA
Number 99: 5/18/13, Unknown, 3 dead 3 injured, Las Piedras, PR
Number 100: 5/19/13, Codarrell Lee Yates, 4 injured, Lunenburg, VA
Number 101: 5/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Detroit, MI
Number 102: 5/19/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, South Memphis, TN
Number 103: 5/20/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 104: 5/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madison County, AL
Number 105: 5/23/13, Evellis T. McGee and Karon D. Thomas, 1 dead 3 injured, Saginaw, MI
Number 106: 5/23/13, Jason Brian Holt, 2 dead 2 injured, Knoxville, TN
Number 107: 5/24/13, Julio Jesus Romero, 2 dead 2 injured, Bakersfield, CA
Number 108: 5/25/13, Antonio King Green, 1 dead 3 injured, Flint, MI
Number 109: 5/25/13, Ryan Taybron, 15, and Eric Nixon, 17, 1 dead 4 injured, Hampton, VA
Number 110: 5/26/13, Esteban J. Smith, 3 dead 5 injured, Eden, TX & Jacksonville, NC
Number 111: 5/28/13, Unknown, 5 dead, Sells, AZ
Number 112: 5/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Memphis, TN
Number 113: 5/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Chicago (Bronzeville), IL
Number 114: 5/31/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Atlanta, GA
Number 115: 6/1/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Vallejo, CA
Number 116: 6/1/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Milwaukee, WI
Number 117: 6/2/13, Xavier Edmondson and Lewis Antonio, 7 injured, LaGrange, GA
Number 118: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Indianapolis, IN
Number 119: 6/2/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 120: 6/2/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Roanoke, VA
Number 121: 6/3/13, Manuel Mata III, 2 dead 2 injured, Las Vegas, NV
Number 122: 6/4/13, Johnny Simpson, 2 dead 2 injured, Shoreview, MN
Number 123: 6/5/13, St. Charles resident, 10 injured, Elburn, IL
Number 124: 6/7/13, John Zawahri, 5 dead 5 injured, Santa Monica, CA
Number 125: 6/9/13, Unknown, 4 injured, York City, PA
Number 126: 6/10/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 127: 6/10/13, Davonta Coleman, 6 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 128: 6/11/13, David Andrus, 4 dead, Darien, IL
Number 129: 6/12/13, Ahmed Dirir, 4 dead, St. Louis, MO
Number 130: 6/14/13, Unknown, 4 injured, High Point, NC
Number 131: 6/15/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Houston, TX
Number 132: 6/15/13, Earnest Woodley, 4 injured, Nashville, TN
Number 133: 6/16/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 134: 6/18/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Berkeley, MO
Number 135: 6/19/13, Gary W. Stewart Jr., 3 dead 1 injured, Louisville, KY
Number 136: 6/21/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, (Kelvyn Park) Chicago, IL
Number 137: 6/21/13, Darren Lamont Roberts and Kyle Edward Thornton, 6 injured, Norfolk, VA
Number 138: 6/22/13, Lakim Anthony Faust, 5 injured, Greenville, NC
Number 139: 6/22/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Providence, RI
Number 140: 6/22/13, Kamal “Rico” Edge, 1 dead 4 injured, Paterson, NJ
Number 141: 6/22/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 142: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Chattanooga, TN
Number 143: 6/23/13, Elijah Rodgers, 1 dead 3 injured, Sacramento, CA
Number 144: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 8 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 145: 6/23/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Gentilly, LA
Number 146: 6/23/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Virginia Beach, VA
Number 147: 6/24/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, MO
Number 148: 6/25/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 149: 6/27/13, Manuel Talamantez, Christina Martinez, 2 dead 2 injured, Three Rivers, CA
Number 150: 6/27/13, Tierra Fallin, 1 dead 3 injured, Baltimore, MD
Number 151: 6/28/13, Unknown, 6 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 152: 6/29/13, Ronald Reid, Barry Stinson, 3 dead 1 injured, North Charleston, SC
Number 153: 6/29/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Aurora, CO
Number 154: 6/30/13, Unknown, 9 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 155: 7/1/13, Amos Wells, 4 dead, Fort Worth, TX
Number 156: 7/2/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Montgomery, AL
Number 157: 7/3/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Calais, Maine
Number 158: 7/4/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Woodlawn, IL
Number 159: 7/4/13, Robert Marion Naylor, 1 dead 6 injured, Pontiac, MI
Number 160: 7/5/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Macon, GA
Number 161: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 7 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 162: 7/6/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Los Angeles, CA
Number 163: 7/6/13, Brandon Reese, 1 dead 3 injured, Brooklyn, NY
Number 164: 7/6/13, Chauncy Laray Mitchell, 4 injured, Florence, AL
Number 165: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Pompano Beach, FL
Number 166: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 5 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 167: 7/7/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Meridian, Miss.
Number 168: 7/7/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Stockton, CA
Number 169: 7/9/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Rockford, IL
Number 170: 7/9/13, Lamont Jones, 4 injured, Balimore, MD
Number 171: 7/10/13, Konrad Schafer, 15, and David Damus, 20, 2 dead 12 injured, Kissimmee, FL
Number 172: 7/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Charlotte, NC
Number 173: 7/12/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Greensburg, KY
Number 174: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Hamilton Township, NJ
Number 175: 7/12/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, San Francicsco, CA
Number 176: 7/13/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Oklahoma City, OK
Number 177: 7/13/13, Unknown, 5 dead 1 injured, New Orleans, LA
Number 178: 7/13/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Washington DC
Number 179: 7/14/13, Suspect in custody., 5 injured, Kentwood, MI
Number 180: 7/14/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Wichita, KS
Number 181: 7/14/13, Phillip Brierly Jr., 2 dead 2 injured, Lexington, SC
Number 182: 7/17/13, Unknown, 3 dead 1 injured, Oakland, CA
Number 183: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Madera, CA
Number 184: 7/19/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Hartford, CT
Number 185: 7/20/13, Devin Spann, 5 injured, Campbell, OH
Number 186: 7/21/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Brooklyn (Bushwick), NY
Number 187: 7/21/13, Terrence Lynom, Angelo Clark, 1 dead 3 injured, Chicago, IL
Number 188: 7/21/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, Fort Pierce, FL
Number 189: 7/21/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Brooklyn (Crown Heights), NY
Number 190: 7/24/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Topeka, KS
Number 191: 7/25/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Inkster, MI
Number 192: 7/26/13, Sidney A. Muller, 4 dead, Clarksburg, WV
Number 193: 7/26/13, Unknown, 7 dead, Hialea, FL
Number 194: 7/27/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Farmington, NM
Number 195: 7/28/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Granger, WA
Number 196: 7/28/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Irvington, NJ
Number 197: 7/28/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 198: 7/30/13, Parrish Chee, 4 injured, Lea County (Hobbs), NM
Number 199: 8/2/13, Tristan Crayton, 4 injured, Broad Ripple, IN
Number 200: 8/2/13, Unknown, 4 dead, Whitesburg, KY
Number 201: 8/2/13, Unknown, 2 dead 3 injured, Newark, NJ
Number 202: 8/3/13, Unknown, 5 injured, Detriot, MI
Number 203: 8/4/13, Giovanni Pacheco, 3 dead 4 injured, Salinas, CA
Number 204: 8/4/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Kansas City, Mo
Number 205: 8/5/13, Suspect known., 4 injured, Montclair, NJ
Number 206: 8/5/13, Rockne Newell, 3 dead 4 injured, Ross Township, PA
Number 207: 8/7/13, Erbie Bowser, 4 dead 4 injured, Dallas, TX
Number 208: 8/11/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Wilmington, Del.
Number 209: 8/11/13, Unknown, 2 dead 2 injured, St. Louis, MO
Number 210: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 4 injured, Portsmouth, VA
Number 211: 8/11/13, Unknown, 1 dead 3 injured, Flatbush, NY
Number 212: 8/11/13, Nikko Jenkins, 4 dead, Omaha, NE
Number 213: 8/12/13, Unknown, 4 injured, Cincinnati, OH


Gun Deaths In Great Britain:

Gun Murders in England, Scotland and Wales 2011/12
There were 640 Murders / Homicides in Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) in 2011/12 (10.43 per million population)
Of these 640 Murders / Homicides, 44 involved a gun or firearm as the main weapon. Gun murders in Britain in 2011/12 represent 6% of the murder cases, (0.72 gun homicides per million population).

So gangsta shootouts are classified as mass shootings these days? Bogus!

If the USA didn't have blacks and hispanics we'd have the murder rate of Japan. Just sayin'
 
Todays news says he entered the base with a shotgun (how?) as a contractor, whose security clearance was renewed in June despite a history of violent episodes involving guns and being under treatment for paranoia and hearing voices.... yeah, lotta brainiac stuff going on there in DC right...


No assault rifle. FBI says he may have gotten the handgun AFTER he started shooting... probably meaning from a dead or wounded MP.

I wonder if race is reason he was allowed to continue his work in the Navy Yard? These flags would have disqualified just about anyone if normal protocol was followed but since the government makes a special effort to work and contract with minorities, was he overlooked?
 
I wonder if race is reason he was allowed to continue his work in the Navy Yard? These flags would have disqualified just about anyone if normal protocol was followed but since the government makes a special effort to work and contract with minorities, was he overlooked?

He was a contractor, so that was not a factor at all. And can you prove that "those flags would have disqualified just about anyone"?

Because I already described what is needed or not needed for a Security Clearance. These checks look for threats of espionage, not violence.
 
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