Nothing wrong with different opinions on a controversial topic like abortion .... but....

[weaver2]

But there is something seriously wrong with conservatives' support for their arguments. They seem to have only propaganda, fake statistics, denial of the truth, accusation of immorality and outright lies. There are good and sufficient reasons for the state to regulate abortions to protect their vested interest in women and fetuses. Conservatives and the religious right have never come up with any of those reasons. Why is that? Why do conservatives have nothing by exposable lies in defense of their position on abortion?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

But there is something seriously wrong with conservatives' support for their arguments. They seem to have only propaganda, fake statistics, denial of the truth, accusation of immorality and outright lies. There are good and sufficient reasons for the state to regulate abortions to protect their vested interest in women and fetuses. Conservatives and the religious right have never come up with any of those reasons. Why is that? Why do conservatives have nothing by exposable lies in defense of their position on abortion?

Abortion is immoral as it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

That is not a lie. It is a truth you cannot argue out of without sophistry.

 

[rickc]

Abortion is immoral as it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

That is not a lie. It is a truth you cannot argue out of without sophistry.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion

Yours is based on religious doctrine which many including myself reject

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion

Yours is based on religious doctrine which many including myself reject

I didn’t once cite any religious doctrine in that argument

 

[lwf]

I didn’t once cite any religious doctrine in that argument

You didn't make an argument. You stated an opinion.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You didn't make an argument. You stated an opinion.

No, I stated an argument. Killing an innocent human being is wrong, a baby is an innocent human being, therefore killing a baby is wrong. That’s literally the first type of argument you learn if you’ve ever taken a logic class.

It’s not opinion that a baby is a human being.

 

[lwf]

No, I stated an argument. Killing an innocent human being is wrong, a baby is an innocent human being, therefore killing a baby is wrong. That’s literally the first type of argument you learn if you’ve ever taken a logic class.

It’s not opinion that a baby is a human being.

You first premise is an opinion you expect others to agree with, not an argument. Some believe that it should be legal to assist an innocent human being with a terminal illness in taking their life if they so choose. And those who think abortion should be legal don't define human embryos as innocent human beings that are entitled to rights anyway.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You first premise is an opinion you expect others to agree with, not an argument. Some believe that it should be legal to assist an innocent human being with a terminal illness in taking their life if they so choose. And those who think abortion should be legal don't define human embryos as innocent human beings that are entitled to rights anyway.

Embryo is a scientific term for a baby at early stage development. There is no logically consistent argument to define it otherwise

 

[rickc]

Embryo is a scientific term for a baby at early stage development. There is no logically consistent argument to define it otherwise

Opinions vary!

 

[weaver2]

No, I stated an argument. Killing an innocent human being is wrong, a baby is an innocent human being, therefore killing a baby is wrong. That’s literally the first type of argument you learn if you’ve ever taken a logic class. It’s not opinion that a baby is a human being.

And there you go proving my original objection that pro-life arguments are denials of the truth.
A person has been defined by science, government, the Bible, philosophy, assorted dictionaries and most religions as a born human having certain legal rights.
A fetus is not a born person.
A fetus has no legal rights
Abortion is not killing of a person.
Abortion is ending the development of an entity with no legal rights into a born person with legal rights.

There's nothing wrong with stating your feelings about abortion and your word manipulation in order to legitimize your feelings are OK because they work for you on a personal basis. You just can't use them in an intelligent and rational discussion about abortion because they are simply personal feelings. And a discussion isn't based on how people feel.

You wouldn't try to win an argument about which team is better based on feelings for the team. You would base it on team stats. Abortion needs to be discussed with facts and statistics.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

And there you go proving my original objection that pro-life arguments are denials of the truth.
A person has been defined by science, government, the Bible, philosophy, assorted dictionaries and most religions as a born human having certain legal rights.
A fetus is not a born person.
A fetus has no legal rights
Abortion is not killing of a person.
Abortion is ending the development of an entity with no legal rights into a born person with legal rights.

There's nothing wrong with stating your feelings about abortion and your word manipulation in order to legitimize your feelings are OK because they work for you on a personal basis. You just can't use them in an intelligent and rational discussion about abortion because they are simply personal feelings. And a discussion isn't based on how people feel.

You wouldn't try to win an argument about which team is better based on feelings for the team. You would base it on team stats. Abortion needs to be discussed with facts and statistics.

So if a government arbitrarily defines humans as non humans then it is morally right to kill them at discretion?

 

[roguenuke]

So if a government arbitrarily defines humans as non humans then it is morally right to kill them at discretion?

Morals are subjective.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[year2late]

Morals are subjective.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Shhhhhhh......you might bring someone out of the woodwork with that statement.:lamo

 

[Bodi]

Abortion is immoral as it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

That is not a lie. It is a truth you cannot argue out of without sophistry.

I disagree with you often but this post is 100% accurate... except for the immoral part.

 

[Noodlegawd]

it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

So is eating meat. Should we ban that too?

 

[rickc]

So if a government arbitrarily defines humans as non humans then it is morally right to kill them at discretion?

I know some that need killing

 

[Acadia]

And there you go proving my original objection that pro-life arguments are denials of the truth.
A person has been defined by science, government, the Bible, philosophy, assorted dictionaries and most religions as a born human having certain legal rights.
A fetus is not a born person.
A fetus has no legal rights
Abortion is not killing of a person.
Abortion is ending the development of an entity with no legal rights into a born person with legal rights.

There's nothing wrong with stating your feelings about abortion and your word manipulation in order to legitimize your feelings are OK because they work for you on a personal basis. You just can't use them in an intelligent and rational discussion about abortion because they are simply personal feelings. And a discussion isn't based on how people feel.

You wouldn't try to win an argument about which team is better based on feelings for the team. You would base it on team stats. Abortion needs to be discussed with facts and statistics.

An unborn baby being called an entity instead of a baby is like calling a car an indeterminate thing because it lost a bumper.
Still a car.

 

[year2late]

So if a government arbitrarily defines humans as non humans then it is morally right to kill them at discretion?

Nobody is saying a fetus is not human. They are saying that it is not a person as defined legally.


It seems more like you are trying to get person hood for that fetus. Seems like you are the one being arbitrary.

 

[vegas giants]

Abortion is immoral as it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

That is not a lie. It is a truth you cannot argue out of without sophistry.

Nah. Its great

 

[vegas giants]

An unborn baby being called an entity instead of a baby is like calling a car an indeterminate thing because it lost a bumper.
Still a car.

An unmade car in the factory is not a car

 

[danielpalos]

But there is something seriously wrong with conservatives' support for their arguments. They seem to have only propaganda, fake statistics, denial of the truth, accusation of immorality and outright lies. There are good and sufficient reasons for the state to regulate abortions to protect their vested interest in women and fetuses. Conservatives and the religious right have never come up with any of those reasons. Why is that? Why do conservatives have nothing by exposable lies in defense of their position on abortion?

False witness bearers should be dismissed as immoral in abortion threads.

Job 34;30 applies.

 

[weaver2]

So if a government arbitrarily defines humans as non humans then it is morally right to kill them at discretion?

If a government and the law and science and the Bible and most religions define an embryo or a fetus as not a person it is within the law and one's discretion to end their existence. Abortion is a legal issue. If you choose to make it a moral issue that is a choice you have made. Nobody is bound by your choice.

 

[weaver2]

An unborn baby being called an entity instead of a baby is like calling a car an indeterminate thing because it lost a bumper.
Still a car.

That works for you on a personal level. It is not the law. The law calls such an entity a zygote or an embryo or a fetus. It is not legally a baby.

 

[weaver2]

Abortion is immoral as it is the private taking of a life without justification for selfish reasons

That is not a lie. It is a truth you cannot argue out of without sophistry.

For you it is not a lie. You believe abortion is immoral, and so it is a truth for you. I don't want to argue you out of this belief. No one is interfering with you opinion. You are free to insert your opinion into a discussion, but nobody will consider it a relevant point because it is not based on fact and the law does not agree with your opinion. .

Back to the team analogy. If you and a friend have statistics spread out on the table trying to define the better team and I come over an say green socks mean the team is the best my opinion would be ignored and rightly so. When you say "Getting an abortion is immoral and means you are selfish" your opinion is rightfully ignored in any serious discussion about regulating abortion. It is an opinion and irrelevant to a fact based discussion.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Embryo is a scientific term for a baby at early stage development. There is no logically consistent argument to define it otherwise

Sure there is. An embryo is not the same thing as a baby. That's why we have a different word for it.