Nothing has changed in five years.....

[gdgyva]

I originally posted this five years ago....just found the piece....i think it is worth reposting TODAY

"Sadness reigns again in our wonderful country this morning, as another person has decided that trying to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time was their best possible move. My heart goes out to all the people involved in the Las Vegas shooting, and those at the concert last night. My prayers to their families, the ones killed, the 500 or so injured, and the ones trying to make sense of another senseless mass shooting.

What do we do next is the question? I believe in 2A, and don't want to take away the rights of law abiding citizens to carry guns. But why does a person need ten assault rifles? Why do we need assault rifles at all except for military use? Somewhere out there, there has to be some middle ground where we can make some changes to hopefully thwart some of these attacks. All I know is the attacks are getting worse, and the death toll keeps getting higher.

And then my last question is why? What caused this man to feel this was his last and best course of action? And how did no one recognize the apparent pain and trouble he was in. Where are his family and friends? How is it that we have become so isolated that someone on the verge of an act like this has no one notice the changes that he had to be displaying?

I know....a lot of really difficult questions. And no real answers. Seems like we have way to many of these "today". So sad....and I feel that we are no where close to solving the underlying problems causing these shootings."


I still feel the same way....somewhere there has to be a sensible middle ground where sensible people can discuss how to make a real difference,
I know this topic has been discussed ad infinitum, but are there reasonable people out there that want to just meet in the middle somehow.

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

There are a lot of smart people out there.....the answer cant be that hard to come up with

 

[RetiredUSN]

It is hard.

Rights come with responsibilities.

But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.

 

[Ginger Ale]

It is hard.

Rights come with responsibilities.

But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.

The only problem is, the responsible are also responsible for those thugs, and mentally ill getting a hold of weapons. Why don't the responsible gun owners find a way to prevent gangs from ripping off gun stores, and prevent legal gun owners from supplying them weapons if they are really responsible? Why don't they find a way to make sure some wacko doesn't get an assault weapon?
Who's responsibility is it, if not the responsible gun owners? It's not mine, I don't want to have weapons. I'll just say, just get rid of them. Nope, it's yours, you want them. So, do something about the problem instead of whining, and we'll believe you really care, and work with you to keep the guns. Right now you look irresponsible.

 

[Mr Person]

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

He opaquely announces "The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile". Note he doesn't even criticize it. He just says it.

Then he points to two things that shouldn't bother anyone who intends to be a lawful and responsible owner: registration of the firearm and insurance that would only kick in if, say, they leave it lying around and their kid kills someone with it.



No shit things aren't changing. That's why. People say they are open to "reasonable gun control", but somehow any particular thing on the table is said to be off it for purposes of a compromise. Meanwhile, the fears about democrats taking all the guns are just plain stupid. Do people on the right really not think that people on the left don't have guns? The democrats would never get away with it among their own party members. Forget the Republicans.

"The left", to the extent it has a cohesive view, is sick of the current set-up that seems intended to mimic a Wild West that never actually was that wild (you generally had to turn over your guns upon entering a town, for example). "The left" wants less guns in criminal hands, less guns in other not-yet-criminal hands they shouldn't be in, less guns/etc that are not so good for self-defense but are great for attacking large numbers of people, and for irresponsible owners to pay. But they're always told they really just want to take all the guns.

It's the stupidest butchery imaginable, and the casualties are far higher than the Charge of the Light Brigade (some profoundly stupid butchery).

 

[BirdinHand]

The only problem is, the responsible are also responsible for those thugs, and mentally ill getting a hold of weapons. Why don't the responsible gun owners find a way to prevent gangs from ripping off gun stores, and prevent legal gun owners from supplying them weapons if they are really responsible? Why don't they find a way to make sure some wacko doesn't get an assault weapon?
Who's responsibility is it, if not the responsible gun owners? It's not mine, I don't want to have weapons. I'll just say, just get rid of them. Nope, it's yours, you want them. So, do something about the problem instead of whining, and we'll believe you really care, and work with you to keep the guns. Right now you look irresponsible.

Private citizens aren’t responsible to put an end to gangs and robberies (although, I don’t know as though I’ve ever heard of a “gun store” being robbed…by a gang…have a source for that?)

The only guns private citizens are responsible for are there own. And in many states, there is no requirements around private sales.

Your issue is with government and law enforcement. Take it up with them.

Our guns (mine/husband) have never and will never hurt a human (unless some idiot comes into my home). This rant makes no sense.

 

[bongsaway]

It is hard.

Rights come with responsibilities.

But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.

Who are you kidding? I'm gonna' subject myself to the gun thread folks and ask them, what are some good ideas for gun control. Let's guess the answers? I'm gonna' go out on a limb and guess the majority of answers will be nothing is acceptable.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Private citizens aren’t responsible to put an end to gangs and robberies (although, I don’t know as though I’ve ever heard of a “gun store” being robbed…by a gang…have a source for that?)

The only guns private citizens are responsible for are there own. And in many states, there is no requirements around private sales.

Your issue is with government and law enforcement. Take it up with them.

Our guns (mine/husband) have never and will never hurt a human (unless some idiot comes into my home). This rant makes no sense.

The Life Cycle of a Stolen Gun

Tracking stolen firearms through the black market, from gun-store thefts to crime scenes.

www.newyorker.com

Straw gun purchases, legal sellers, legal buyers.
What's needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

www.pbs.org

Legal gun owners provide criminals with guns, then they arm themselves to protect themselves from criminals with guns.

So, if we don't want criminals with guns, then we have to get rid of legal gun suppliers, and legal buyers who sell out of their home. See the problem?

If good guys with a gun can figure out how to stop the good guys with guns from selling to the black market, then do it. If you can't control it, then you know why everyone's taken back by your need to own one. You're arming criminals, then saying you need to arm yourselves to protect against the monsters you're making.

In the last days of May and first week of June, there were more than 90 attempted or successful burglaries of gun stores, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. More than 1,000 guns were stolen in that window of time, the bureau’s assistant director of field operations, Tom Chittum, told POLITICO.https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/23/gun-store-robberies-law-enforcement-336104

 

[Noodlegawd]

But why does a person need ten assault rifles?

What does need have to do with anything, and why does nobody ever ask that question about alcohol and 100+mph cars?

 

[gdgyva]

because a guy with a bottle of tequila and a car doing 100 mph is a menace to society, but his damage will for the most part be limited

can you say the same for a guy with 10 assault rifles and 50 clips of ammo

again...i am a gun owner...i shoot at a range 3 miles from my business, and the people there are extraordinary

i just think we as the gun owners need to seriously look at what we want.....and what we are okay giving up for the greater good

they arent getting all my guns, nor am i going to buy stupid insurance.....

i am probably like most of you....very safe, and very diligent on who i let anywhere near my weapons

i am just tired of seeing mass shootings every few weeks.....there has to be a middle point somewhere

 

[The Baron]

It is hard.

Rights come with responsibilities.

But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.

Somebody's gotta protect us from the street thugs and mentally ill killers and since Libs are defunding the police, we need the Second Amendment as much today as ever.

 

[devildavid]

Somebody's gotta protect us from the street thugs and mentally ill killers and since Libs are defunding the police, we need the Second Amendment as much today as ever.

The Second Amendment does not authorize taking the law into your own hands. The law always comes first, and use of guns come second, under the law. The right to own a gun is not the right to use the gun as your own personal means of law enforcement.

 

[devildavid]

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

Your attitude hasn't changed in 5 years either. Gun haters? Crap like that?

You are the problem to the answer you seek because your bias effectively eliminates any "sensible" middle ground.

 

[Indydave]

It is hard.

Rights come with responsibilities.

But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.

'But until the moronic liberals can differentiate between responsible gun owners, street thugs, and mentally ill killers, there will be no debate.'

that's not the issue.....at all.....the issue is mass murder and our inability/refusal to do anything about it......the issue is we just throw up our hands and say 'dam shame' and 'thoughts and prayers' and 'I wish there was something we could do'.......the issue is we value our 2nd amendment rights over the lives of our children and innocent people going about their lives.......

 

[Glitch]

I originally posted this five years ago....just found the piece....i think it is worth reposting TODAY

"Sadness reigns again in our wonderful country this morning, as another person has decided that trying to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time was their best possible move. My heart goes out to all the people involved in the Las Vegas shooting, and those at the concert last night. My prayers to their families, the ones killed, the 500 or so injured, and the ones trying to make sense of another senseless mass shooting.

What do we do next is the question? I believe in 2A, and don't want to take away the rights of law abiding citizens to carry guns. But why does a person need ten assault rifles? Why do we need assault rifles at all except for military use? Somewhere out there, there has to be some middle ground where we can make some changes to hopefully thwart some of these attacks. All I know is the attacks are getting worse, and the death toll keeps getting higher.

And then my last question is why? What caused this man to feel this was his last and best course of action? And how did no one recognize the apparent pain and trouble he was in. Where are his family and friends? How is it that we have become so isolated that someone on the verge of an act like this has no one notice the changes that he had to be displaying?

I know....a lot of really difficult questions. And no real answers. Seems like we have way to many of these "today". So sad....and I feel that we are no where close to solving the underlying problems causing these shootings."


I still feel the same way....somewhere there has to be a sensible middle ground where sensible people can discuss how to make a real difference,
I know this topic has been discussed ad infinitum, but are there reasonable people out there that want to just meet in the middle somehow.

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

There are a lot of smart people out there.....the answer cant be that hard to come up with

There can never be any compromise on anything as long as you continue to tell people what they need or don't need. When you deliberately lie and call semiautomatic firearms "assault rifles" it tells me that you are one of those anti-American leftist gun-grabbers who spits on the rights of every American.

And you have to wonder why nobody in their right mind is willing to compromise with such leftist filth? Seriously? Obviously you need to get a clue.

 

[lwf]

I originally posted this five years ago....just found the piece....i think it is worth reposting TODAY

"Sadness reigns again in our wonderful country this morning, as another person has decided that trying to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time was their best possible move. My heart goes out to all the people involved in the Las Vegas shooting, and those at the concert last night. My prayers to their families, the ones killed, the 500 or so injured, and the ones trying to make sense of another senseless mass shooting.

What do we do next is the question? I believe in 2A, and don't want to take away the rights of law abiding citizens to carry guns. But why does a person need ten assault rifles? Why do we need assault rifles at all except for military use? Somewhere out there, there has to be some middle ground where we can make some changes to hopefully thwart some of these attacks. All I know is the attacks are getting worse, and the death toll keeps getting higher.

And then my last question is why? What caused this man to feel this was his last and best course of action? And how did no one recognize the apparent pain and trouble he was in. Where are his family and friends? How is it that we have become so isolated that someone on the verge of an act like this has no one notice the changes that he had to be displaying?

I know....a lot of really difficult questions. And no real answers. Seems like we have way to many of these "today". So sad....and I feel that we are no where close to solving the underlying problems causing these shootings."


I still feel the same way....somewhere there has to be a sensible middle ground where sensible people can discuss how to make a real difference,
I know this topic has been discussed ad infinitum, but are there reasonable people out there that want to just meet in the middle somehow.

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

There are a lot of smart people out there.....the answer cant be that hard to come up with

As a member of the 2A crowd mostly for philosophical reasons, I am not against registration and background checks so long as they are not overly burdensome or costly. Nor am I against a reasonable level of gun safety training. These are common sense measures.

Things like magazine capacity limits and banning certain semi-automatic rifles because some of their parts are black and synthetic making them resemble the assault rifles used by the military make no practical sense. These are "feel good" but foolish suggestions that don't accomplish anything other than for politicians to campaign on and cost people money. These suggestions are the equivalent of outlawing six packs of beer and only selling four packs instead in order to reduce drunk driving fatalities. Would this work? Or would people buy two four packs and drink eight beers instead of six before getting in their car?

 

[Glitch]

As a member of the 2A crowd mostly for philosophical reasons, I am not against registration and background checks so long as they are not overly burdensome or costly. Nor am I against a reasonable level of gun safety training. These are common sense measures.

They are also infringements.

The way you can tell is if you applied any of your conditions to any other individual right. Should people be registered and have background checks to freely speak their minds? How about to hold a particular religious belief? The only condition that applies to any individual right is that they cannot be used to harm another, physically or financially. Otherwise the government is prohibited from infringing on those rights.

The only "common sense" measure is what the US Constitution already says: "...shall not be infringed." Which is all the leftist filth have ever done since 1934: INFRINGE! They, and apparently you, know no other way.

 

[lwf]

They are also infringements.

The way you can tell is if you applied any of your conditions to any other individual right. Should people be registered and have background checks to freely speak their minds? How about to hold a particular religious belief? The only condition that applies to any individual right is that they cannot be used to harm another, physically or financially. Otherwise the government is prohibited from infringing on those rights.

The only "common sense" measure is what the US Constitution already says: "...shall not be infringed." Which is all the leftist filth have ever done since 1934: INFRINGE! They, and apparently you, know no other way.

They aren't infringements so long as any law abiding adult of sound mind can exercise the right without undue burden. You have to be 18 to vote. You have to be registered in order to drive a car. This notion that the right to bear arms should be absolute is a fantasy. We put guiderails on all rights. Why should the right to bear arms be treated differently?

 

[Glitch]

They aren't infringements so long as any law abiding adult of sound mind can exercise the right without undue burden. You have to be 18 to vote. You have to be registered in order to drive a car. This notion that the right to bear arms should be absolute is a fantasy. We put guiderails on all rights. Why should the right to bear arms be treated differently?

Any government imposed condition, restriction, or limitation is an infringement.

You have to be both a US citizen and 18 years old or older to vote, because that is specifically what the Twenty-Sixth Amendment states. If you wish to similarly restrict the Second Amendment to a specific age or citizenship requirement, amend the US Constitution in accordance with process detailed under Article V. Statute law won't cut it, it has to be part of the Supreme Law of the Land to alter an enumerated right.

You also do not need to be registered to drive a car. The vehicle only needs to be registered if you intend to use it on public roads.

What makes you think the right to bear arms is absolute? Crimes involving firearms are typically punished more severely than identical crimes that do not involve firearms. Only those who are truly ignorant could possibly believe any right is absolutely. Since that appears to be your argument that tells me a great deal about you. You really need to read up on the limitations already placed on anyone using arms to harm another and get a clue. Because you clearly do not have one now.

 

[lwf]

Any government imposed condition, restriction, or limitation is an infringement.

You have to be both a US citizen and 18 years old or older to vote, because that is specifically what the Twenty-Sixth Amendment states. If you wish to similarly restrict the Second Amendment to a specific age or citizenship requirement, amend the US Constitution in accordance with process detailed under Article V. Statute law won't cut it, it has to be part of the Supreme Law of the Land to alter an enumerated right.

You also do not need to be registered to drive a car. The vehicle only needs to be registered if you intend to use it on public roads.

What makes you think the right to bear arms is absolute? Crimes involving firearms are typically punished more severely than identical crimes that do not involve firearms. Only those who are truly ignorant could possibly believe any right is absolutely. Since that appears to be your argument that tells me a great deal about you. You really need to read up on the limitations already placed on anyone using arms to harm another and get a clue. Because you clearly do not have one now.

Are you saying that the right to bear arms is not absolute or that it is?

 

[Rich2018]

I originally posted this five years ago....just found the piece....i think it is worth reposting TODAY

"Sadness reigns again in our wonderful country this morning, as another person has decided that trying to kill as many people as possible, in the shortest amount of time was their best possible move. My heart goes out to all the people involved in the Las Vegas shooting, and those at the concert last night. My prayers to their families, the ones killed, the 500 or so injured, and the ones trying to make sense of another senseless mass shooting.

What do we do next is the question? I believe in 2A, and don't want to take away the rights of law abiding citizens to carry guns. But why does a person need ten assault rifles? Why do we need assault rifles at all except for military use? Somewhere out there, there has to be some middle ground where we can make some changes to hopefully thwart some of these attacks. All I know is the attacks are getting worse, and the death toll keeps getting higher.

And then my last question is why? What caused this man to feel this was his last and best course of action? And how did no one recognize the apparent pain and trouble he was in. Where are his family and friends? How is it that we have become so isolated that someone on the verge of an act like this has no one notice the changes that he had to be displaying?

I know....a lot of really difficult questions. And no real answers. Seems like we have way to many of these "today". So sad....and I feel that we are no where close to solving the underlying problems causing these shootings."


I still feel the same way....somewhere there has to be a sensible middle ground where sensible people can discuss how to make a real difference,
I know this topic has been discussed ad infinitum, but are there reasonable people out there that want to just meet in the middle somehow.

The 2A crowd are afraid if they give an inch, the gun haters will want to take a mile
The gun haters need to give a little....and stop trying to register every gun owner, or require insurance and crap like that

There are a lot of smart people out there.....the answer cant be that hard to come up with

What can I say ?

There can be no significant gun control unless the 2nd Amendment is repealed.