Not Bad Work if You Can Get It

[Rexedgar]

I admit, it’s been a long time since I had to retain a lawyer, but damn!

Lawyer's $2,465 hourly rate draws objection in J&J talc bankruptcy case

The United States is objecting to a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary’s bid to add Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal to its legal team in a high-stakes bankruptcy case, citing his hourly rate of $2,465 — a possible new legal industry high.

www.reuters.com

 

[Loulit01]

“FIRST, WE KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!” (Shakespeare)​

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yep, that’s the truly scary part of trying to civilly sue anyone rich. If they (and their very highly paid legal team) win then you may be ordered to (re)pay their legal costs incurred defending themselves.

 

[Mr Person]

I admit, it’s been a long time since I had to retain a lawyer, but damn!

Lawyer's $2,465 hourly rate draws objection in J&J talc bankruptcy case

The United States is objecting to a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary’s bid to add Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal to its legal team in a high-stakes bankruptcy case, citing his hourly rate of $2,465 — a possible new legal industry high.

www.reuters.com

It does also say "a possible new legal industry high." That's far from normal, though I wouldn't be surprised if partners at firms that live to help Megacorp sue Ultracorp charge not far off it then put a bunch of associates on depositions where they aren't needed.

 

[Rexedgar]

It does also say "a possible new legal industry high." That's far from normal, though I wouldn't be surprised if partners at firms that live to help Megacorp sue Ultracorp charge not far off it then put a bunch of associates on depositions where they aren't needed.

What’s the average billing hour cost in the profession, these days?

 

[Mr Person]

“FIRST, WE KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!” (Shakespeare)​

In Henry VI, Dick the Butcher states "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

In context, the actual idea was that if you want to stage a successful revolt that deposes a government, you need to eliminate the rule of law (among other things). And if you kill all the lawyers, there won't be people around saying - let alone trying to use judicial institutions - "hey, you can't do that to the peasants! That's illegal!"

It just got co-opted into a cowardly popular sentiment; the kind of thing that one says to ingriate oneself with others, even if one does not necessarily mean it. Sort of like a schoolkid trying to get into an in-group by openly crapping on a popular school target (usually the most bullied kids). I can only wonder how people who snicker at the phrase out of context would think of it if they had gone into a profession to help others do things they couldn't otherwise do and everyone else thinks it's hilarious to talk about murdering everyone like them.



I suspect doctors and contractors know....

 

[Mr Person]

What’s the average billing hour cost in the profession, these days?

If you're asking what the average billing rate is across all types of attorney, you're asking a bad question. It's not even all hourly rate. Some things are typically flat rate. Others, contingency (I win you millions, I get a third, or a quarter, or 40%, whatever it is the particular firm negotiates with clients). Sometimes the legislature sets the rate (court-appointed). And sometimes it's an hourly rate. Within that, depending on the area, many will slash the rate depending on ability to pay.

It depends on the area, the work, the firm, the attorney, and all sorts of things.

 

[Rexedgar]

In Henry VI, Dick the Butcher states "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

In context, the actual idea was that if you want to stage a successful revolt that deposes a government, you need to eliminate the rule of law (among other things). And if you kill all the lawyers, there won't be people around saying - let alone trying to use judicial institutions - "hey, you can't do that to the peasants! That's illegal!"

It just got co-opted into a cowardly popular sentiment; the kind of thing that one says to ingriate oneself with others, even if one does not necessarily mean it. Sort of like a schoolkid trying to get into an in-group by openly crapping on a popular school target (usually the most bullied kids). I can only wonder how people who snicker at the phrase out of context would think of it if they had gone into a profession to help others do things they couldn't otherwise do and everyone else thinks it's hilarious to talk about murdering everyone like them.



I suspect doctors and contractors know....

Any profession that cannot be done by the rank and file falls into this trap. Lawyers seem to bring some of the scorn on themselves. Good on you if you are in it for altruistic reasons.

 

[Rexedgar]

If you're asking what the average billing rate is across all types of attorney, you're asking a bad question. It's not even all hourly rate. Some things are typically flat rate. Others, contingency (I win you millions, I get a third, or a quarter, or 40%, whatever it is the particular firm negotiates with clients). Sometimes the legislature sets the rate (court-appointed). And sometimes it's an hourly rate. Within that, depending on the area, many will slash the rate depending on ability to pay.

It depends on the area, the work, the firm, the attorney, and all sorts of things.

For instance, I have not had much need for legal advice, no family lawyer on retainer. If I pick up the phone book, (yeah, I remember them,) and call the first large ad needing representation in my DUI, what can I look to spend?

 

[Loulit01]

In Henry VI, Dick the Butcher states "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

In context, the actual idea was that if you want to stage a successful revolt that deposes a government, you need to eliminate the rule of law (among other things). And if you kill all the lawyers, there won't be people around saying - let alone trying to use judicial institutions - "hey, you can't do that to the peasants! That's illegal!"

It just got co-opted into a cowardly popular sentiment; the kind of thing that one says to ingriate oneself with others, even if one does not necessarily mean it. Sort of like a schoolkid trying to get into an in-group by openly crapping on a popular school target (usually the most bullied kids). I can only wonder how people who snicker at the phrase out of context would think of it if they had gone into a profession to help others do things they couldn't otherwise do and everyone else thinks it's hilarious to talk about murdering everyone like them.



I suspect doctors and contractors know....

Yeah, that's one way to look at it. But it's been debunked. Shakespeare was no fan of lawyers. His dad avoided the law like the plague, even though he was mayor.

Today, that line is taken as meaning lawyers are protectors of the people and had to be negated in order to institute a tyranny. Many people, mostly lawyers, have written convincingly in support of that position.

It's bullshit. I took a few courses on Shakespeare and we went 'round and 'round on this. Obviously Shakespeare didn't mean we should literally kill all the lawyers. He did mean we might be better off without them.

The postion against lawyers is well argued in the following, and it has wide support among Shakespearean scholars.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In plainer words, it is Cade’s view that the language of lawyers (words written on parchment) enslaves; it is not his view that it liberates. It is lawyers’ language that takes away liberty; it does not protect liberty. It is the lawyers themselves who are instruments of the oppressors, not the defenders of liberty. Later, in Scene VII, Cade levels charges against Lord Say, charges that again indicate that lawyers and judges are the oppressors, not the protectors of liberty:

Cade.. . . Thou hast appointed justices of peace, to call poor men before them about matters they were not able to answer. Moreover, thou hast put them in prison; and because they could not read, thou hast hanged them. . . .

There are at least four different ways in which the passages portraying Cade’s Rebellion can be read.

Let’s Kill All the Lawyers! Shakespeare (Might Have) Meant It

In the article , “ The First Thing We Do, Let’s Get Shakespeare Right! ”1 J.B. Hopkins concludes that Shakespeare’s line, “Let’s kill all the lawyers,” is, contrary to its facial meaning, a statement in praise of lawyers, not in derogation of them. In so doing, he perpetuates a political...

www.floridabar.org

 

[HIP56948]

$98,600.00 for a 40 hour week? (insert Insane here)

 

[Gateman_Wen]

“FIRST, WE KILL ALL THE LAWYERS!” (Shakespeare)​

Ayup

 

[Mr Person]

Any profession that cannot be done by the rank and file falls into this trap. Lawyers seem to bring some of the scorn on themselves. Good on you if you are in it for altruistic reasons.

I'm not sure what you mean by "trap". This whole lawyers are unscrupulous bastards who just want to suck up all your money is a cowardly popular prejudice. People know lawyers are popular targets so, like those who would ingratiate themselves with the cool kids at school they ingratiate themselves with others generally by echoing the popular sentiment. Nevermind that legal work can be very expensive, both because of the costs of obtaining the necessary education and the sheer time-consuming complexity of all the miserable hoops you may have to jump through.

But there's nothing about lawyers specifically that make it any more justifiable to extrapolate from a few bad examples that get jeered at in the media to lawyers in general. Most of us wish nobody was allowed to put up those ever-****ing "in an accident? GET CASH NOW!" billboards.

For instance, I have not had much need for legal advice, no family lawyer on retainer. If I pick up the phone book, (yeah, I remember them,) and call the first large ad needing representation in my DUI, what can I look to spend?

Same problem, though. Really. Family law catering to whom? Where? What kind of case and what are the complications? It's not my area (appeals in criminal cases involving indigent defendants). I'm sure family lawyers to the rich charge an arm and a leg, right on down to those remaining private attorneys who wish to serve the poor and lower/middle class, right on down further to those in states who appoint attorneys for certain family law matters like termination of parental rights and the like (they get paid the least, typically; the population isn't too keen on providing lawyers for people who cannot afford them). Case complexity, income, and geography will also factor into the rates charged.

 

[Rexedgar]

I'm not sure what you mean by "trap". This whole lawyers are unscrupulous bastards who just want to suck up all your money is a cowardly popular prejudice. People know lawyers are popular targets so, like those who would ingratiate themselves with the cool kids at school they ingratiate themselves with others generally by echoing the popular sentiment. Nevermind that legal work can be very expensive, both because of the costs of obtaining the necessary education and the sheer time-consuming complexity of all the miserable hoops you may have to jump through.

But there's nothing about lawyers specifically that make it any more justifiable to extrapolate from a few bad examples that get jeered at in the media to lawyers in general. Most of us wish nobody was allowed to put up those ever-****ing "in an accident? GET CASH NOW!" billboards.




Same problem, though. Really. Family law catering to whom? Where? What kind of case and what are the complications? It's not my area (appeals in criminal cases involving indigent defendants). I'm sure family lawyers to the rich charge an arm and a leg, right on down to those remaining private attorneys who wish to serve the poor and lower/middle class, right on down further to those in states who appoint attorneys for certain family law matters like termination of parental rights and the like (they get paid the least, typically; the population isn't too keen on providing lawyers for people who cannot afford them). Case complexity, income, and geography will also factor into the rates charged.

Ok, counselor. As I tried to convey, up-thread, every profession that requires specialized knowledge has it’s share of those that brings scorn on the rest. Perhaps this is a sore subject.

 

[Napoleon]

What’s the average billing hour cost in the profession, these days?

Quick google search suggests this guy is charging per hour what the average bankruptcy attorney would charge you for the entire case.

 

[Rexedgar]

Quick google search suggests this guy is charging per hour what the average bankruptcy attorney would charge you for the entire case.

I thought $ 750.00 per hour was high……

 

[Napoleon]

I thought $ 750.00 per hour was high……

For 750 per hour they can take me on a tour of El Dorado and a dip in the Fountain of Youth. $2465 per hour? I’m gonna need some face time with the creator.

 

[Lutherf]

I admit, it’s been a long time since I had to retain a lawyer, but damn!

Lawyer's $2,465 hourly rate draws objection in J&J talc bankruptcy case

The United States is objecting to a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary’s bid to add Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal to its legal team in a high-stakes bankruptcy case, citing his hourly rate of $2,465 — a possible new legal industry high.

www.reuters.com

While the fee seems rather high for run of the mill legal services, with Katyal you have J&J paying for his extraordinary experience in political circles. Katyal served as Solicitor General, replacing Elena Kagan. He has broad recognition in political and media circles as an expert in the nexus between politics and the law. He has also argued a whole mess of cases before the Supreme Court. With that level of expertise his requested rate is certainly not exorbitant.

 

[Lutherf]

I thought $ 750.00 per hour was high……

Depends on where you're practicing, what function you're performing and who is paying you. That rate would be high in Tucson for most civil or criminal work but in Chicago, LA or NYC, not so much.

 

[Rexedgar]

While the fee seems rather high for run of the mill legal services, with Katyal you have J&J paying for his extraordinary experience in political circles. Katyal served as Solicitor General, replacing Elena Kagan. He has broad recognition in political and media circles as an expert in the nexus between politics and the law. He has also argued a whole mess of cases before the Supreme Court. With that level of expertise his requested rate is certainly not exorbitant.

Makes me wonder what MSNBC pays for his on air segments.

 

[Lutherf]

Makes me wonder what MSNBC pays for his on air segments.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was getting $10k per hit.

 

[trouble13]

I admit, it’s been a long time since I had to retain a lawyer, but damn!

Lawyer's $2,465 hourly rate draws objection in J&J talc bankruptcy case

The United States is objecting to a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary’s bid to add Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal to its legal team in a high-stakes bankruptcy case, citing his hourly rate of $2,465 — a possible new legal industry high.

www.reuters.com

I wouldn't get out of bed for those peanuts. It's slave wages like these that created a need for unions in the first place.

 

[Bear5131]

Everyone hates lawyers till they need one

 

[Groogrux]

I admit, it’s been a long time since I had to retain a lawyer, but damn!

Lawyer's $2,465 hourly rate draws objection in J&J talc bankruptcy case

The United States is objecting to a Johnson & Johnson subsidiary’s bid to add Hogan Lovells partner Neal Katyal to its legal team in a high-stakes bankruptcy case, citing his hourly rate of $2,465 — a possible new legal industry high.

www.reuters.com

Why oppose counsel based on their hourly billing?