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Norway Elects a Conservative as Its Premier

I hope you understand that a "conservative" in Europe or Canada sits to the left of an American Democrat. Meanwhile, Norway sits on top of the Prosperity Index, as it has for years.

The 2012 Legatum Prosperity Index
I checked the methodology of that index. That index suffer from overabundance of data and lack of focus. For instance gros domestic savings and inflation gets the same weighting as unemployment rate. And in education Perception that Children are Learning in Society gets massive weighting, but the perception can just be due to delusion.

I noticed how wierdly countries are ranked, and realized something is wrong.

Economy: Supposedly India has a better economy than Iceland. Absolutly absurd!
Education: What exactly makes the Taiwanese education system at the same level as Canada, but Singapore education system at the same level as Kazakhstan and China. Singapore is highest achiever of all countries, that should count for something.
Health: US is number 2. Enough said!
Safety: What is Japan doing at number 16 at the same level as UK. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world and UK certainly isn't. Why is this the case? And why is China at lower level than Honduras. Honduras has a murder rate of 91.6. China has a murder rate of 1.0.
Personal Freedom: All the statistics are talking about immigrants. What about us locals?
 
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7 years is not a long time and Harper is very likely to lose in 2015. The Norwegian labour party was in power for 8 years. 8 years ago they had lots of ideas for the country, and they achieved many of their goals. Now there is no vision, and no inspiration. The only thing they did was fearmongering. That we change government after 8 years, show that Norway is a healthy democracy.

In Venezuela socialists have been in government for 15 years, they are not losing power anytime soon and democracy is eroding. In Zimbabwe Mugabe has been in power for 26 years and he has in practice abolished democracy. We need leadership change, because we need fresh ideas, and they need to feel som pressure to perform. The problem with being in power too long is that power corrupts people.

When a leader is in power for too long, and doesn't even get voted out when the economy crashes, it often leads to problems.

Canada's record is 13 years straight (two prime minsters did that) though William Lyon Mackenzie King served 21 years in total. Pierre Trudeau was in power for 15 years straight minus less than a year when Joe Clark was elected then defeated in another election.
 
I checked the methodology of that index. That index suffer from overabundance of data and lack of focus. For instance gros domestic savings and inflation gets the same weighting as unemployment rate. And in education Perception that Children are Learning in Society gets massive weighting, but the perception can just be due to delusion.

I noticed how wierdly countries are ranked, and realized something is wrong.

Economy: Supposedly India has a better economy than Iceland. Absolutly absurd!
Education: What exactly makes the Taiwanese education system at the same level as Canada, but Singapore education system at the same level as Kazakhstan and China. Singapore is highest achiever of all countries, that should count for something.
Health: US is number 2. Enough said!
Safety: What is Japan doing at number 16 at the same level as UK. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world and UK certainly isn't. Why is this the case? And why is China at lower level than Honduras. Honduras has a murder rate of 91.6. China has a murder rate of 1.0.
Personal Freedom: All the statistics are talking about immigrants. What about us locals?

Well in just size India's is just a lot bigger as it has a lot more people and Iceland's economy partly caused the 2008 recession and their currency is apparently in trouble.
 
A conservative Norwegian premier's policies would be slightly to the left of Obama.
 
Canada's record is 13 years straight (two prime minsters did that) though William Lyon Mackenzie King served 21 years in total. Pierre Trudeau was in power for 15 years straight minus less than a year when Joe Clark was elected then defeated in another election.
Sure, but how do you know liberals having power for that long was healthy for the country. The Canadian economy did not perform very well after the war. The economy lost ground to Europe in the 50s and 60s and was unable to catch up to the US. And in the 70s and 80s there was massive unemployment and inflation problems.

It is in the just recenty people has started looking towards Canada. It is in the last 30 years Canada has gotten into the habit of changing leaders.

Well in just size India's is just a lot bigger as it has a lot more people and Iceland's economy partly caused the 2008 recession and their currency is apparently in trouble.
But its called the propserity index isn't it? Sure the recession hit Iceland hard, and thats why they are low. But in terms of economy Iceland is way more prosperous than India.
 
Sure, but how do you know liberals having power for that long was healthy for the country. The Canadian economy did not perform very well after the war. The economy lost ground to Europe in the 50s and 60s and was unable to catch up to the US. And in the 70s and 80s there was massive unemployment and inflation problems.

It is in the just recenty people has started looking towards Canada. It is in the last 30 years Canada has gotten into the habit of changing leaders.

But its called the propserity index isn't it? Sure the recession hit Iceland hard, and thats why they are low. But in terms of economy Iceland is way more prosperous than India.

We had the same boom the U.S. did during and after WWII the only reason we didn't catch up is we have 1/10th of the population the U.S. does. Canada also may not have have as high as economic growth but we have better quality of life than the U.S.. The U.S. suffered the same issues in the 70s and 80s but were actually less so in Canada because we weren't involved in the Vietnam War. People have always looked towards Canada we are just a small country. How have we started changing leader sin the last 30 years 10 of those were by one prime minster then another few by the same party and cabinet then Harper has been PM for almost a decade. Alberta hasn't changed parties in 30 years and it is the fastest growing province economically now.
 
We had the same boom the U.S. did during and after WWII the only reason we didn't catch up is we have 1/10th of the population the U.S. does. Canada also may not have have as high as economic growth but we have better quality of life than the U.S.. The U.S. suffered the same issues in the 70s and 80s but were actually less so in Canada because we weren't involved in the Vietnam War. People have always looked towards Canada we are just a small country.

Pure BS! Canada is right next to the US, there is absolutly no reason why Canada can't integrate themselves into the american market. Many states in America don't have a very high population density, but they are still doing fine. Canada even had a lot of oil per capita, so there are simply no excuses left. If it was the population that was the problem, then how did Switzerland manage to stay rich? They had more disadvantages than Canada as they were part of Europe, which was not very well integrated at that time.

Also, US was totally dominated by Democrats just like in Canada to the late 70s, because the congress was totally dominated by democrats. That was the longest period in history and it lead to heaps of problems when they had been in power for too long. You need leadership change, because you need to get rid of bad ideas. Luckily the 26 year streak of Democrat dominance ended and they voted in Reagan and a more republican congress who removed both the inflation and unemployment problems.

Canada did the same as the US some years later. What if Canada never changed government and kept the liberals in power till today? Then I don't think Canada would have a very good living standard.

And no, living standards 30-40 years ago was worse in Canada for all levels of income. The income inequality in the US and Canda was almost identical. http://worthwhile.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451688169e20153919a18dc970b-800wi http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cient_for_Household_Income_(1967_-_2007_).png
And Americans had much higher average wages. In those days many Canadians were leaving Canada and heading for the US.

How have we started changing leader sin the last 30 years 10 of those were by one prime minster then another few by the same party and cabinet then Harper has been PM for almost a decade.
Read what you are writing. You just listed 4, from different parties. Actually there has been 7, but nice try. Don't try to argue against everything I say, just because it says conservative under my name. When something is obviously true, then don't argue against it because it will do you no favours.

Alberta hasn't changed parties in 30 years and it is the fastest growing province economically now.
Thats because they got oil. Also, they are province with very limited power.
 
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Lower taxes and privatization? In Scandinavia? The hallmark location used by social progressives to explain how great it could be here?

Now, the article linked below is from the NY Times, so it tries real hard to focus on another issue; the massacre 2 years ago. But even the Times had to at least state the portion I quote below:



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/world/europe/norway-elects-a-conservative-as-its-premier.html?_r=0

What does this say about the progressive movement in Scandinavia? Or anywhere for that matter, in these economic times?

Alive and kicking.

Norway, via Statoil can afford a welfare state. It doesn't actually look like Solberg is promoting Conservative ideologies when she's after spending more money on social programs. But if she goes the way of Mexico, that will be bad for Norway. Pemex is being bleed to death by Mexico to the point it doesn't have the money or expertise to do deep water drilling like the US or Petrobras. The conservatives are dealing with smaller parties over how much more to spend, not how much to cut.

Progressives have often called to reduce taxes. That's not a conservative vs liberal divider.

It's funny but sad that Norway, after putting billions to invest overseas couldn't tame Dutch Disease.
 
Alive and kicking.

Norway, via Statoil can afford a welfare state. It doesn't actually look like Solberg is promoting Conservative ideologies when she's after spending more money on social programs. But if she goes the way of Mexico, that will be bad for Norway. Pemex is being bleed to death by Mexico to the point it doesn't have the money or expertise to do deep water drilling like the US or Petrobras. The conservatives are dealing with smaller parties over how much more to spend, not how much to cut.

First off its no suprise that conservatives want to increase spending on some programs. That is not due to Norway being left wing, but because the economy is doing well. When Bush was elected, he also wanted to increase spending on some programs. Even Reagan increased spending.

The conservative government is in favour of privitazation, but not of Statoil. I don't think any conservative government would have chosen differently if it was placed in Norway. They are more interested in more private health care and education.

Progressives have often called to reduce taxes. That's not a conservative vs liberal divider.

It's funny but sad that Norway, after putting billions to invest overseas couldn't tame Dutch Disease.

Progressives have not often called to cut taxes. And the progressives in Norway has zero interest in doing that.

Its also impossible to totally avoid the dutch disease and benefit from the oil. It is given that if you make yorself rich through selling oil, then your workers will be too expensive to compete in a lot of other sectors. The oil fund has helped Norway avoid the worst effects of the dutch disease. They haven't broken the 4% rule yet, but the rule is not very good and needs to be updated.
 
First off its no suprise that conservatives want to increase spending on some programs. That is not due to Norway being left wing, but because the economy is doing well. When Bush was elected, he also wanted to increase spending on some programs.

Bush was not Conservative. Let's get that straight.

The conservative government is in favour of privitazation, but not of Statoil. I don't think any conservative government would have chosen differently if it was placed in Norway. They are more interested in more private health care and education.

Never said they were in favor of privatizing their state oil firm.

Progressives have not often called to cut taxes. And the progressives in Norway has zero interest in doing that.

Depends what you mean by "often."
 
7 years is not a long time and Harper is very likely to lose in 2015. The Norwegian labour party was in power for 8 years. 8 years ago they had lots of ideas for the country, and they achieved many of their goals. Now there is no vision, and no inspiration. The only thing they did was fearmongering. That we change government after 8 years, show that Norway is a healthy democracy.

In Venezuela socialists have been in government for 15 years, they are not losing power anytime soon and democracy is eroding. In Zimbabwe Mugabe has been in power for 26 years and he has in practice abolished democracy. We need leadership change, because we need fresh ideas, and they need to feel som pressure to perform. The problem with being in power too long is that power corrupts people.

When a leader is in power for too long, and doesn't even get voted out when the economy crashes, it often leads to problems.

The Norwegian Labour party, unfortunately, has gone the way of the UK labour party somewhat (not nearly to the same degree though), in being a middle of the road "pragmatist" party, that uses socialist language to get elected, but tries to please both the working class and the buisiness class, when you're a party with no principles or ideas it's not going to work.

SV is a clown organization, who unless they stop trying to still be a "New Left" group, or a feminist green party, will just dissapear. The Red party is basically what the Labour party was 50 years ago, i.e. an actual socialist party.

The Labour party is resting on its lauralls I think, essencailly the message is "we have a nice social-democracy, lets not screw it up."

The conservative party says "new ideas," and people say "I like new," what I find pathetic is that the conservatives tried to take credit for the Norwegian social-democratic system, while at the same time pushing neo-liberal ideology, many Norwegians think that the conservatives will just do some good new fresh ideas but leave the social democracy in tact, I honestly really hope that is the case. But never under estimate neo-liberal government. These are NOT new ideas ... they've been tried, and they put much of europe in a financial crisis. The reason Swedes come to norway to work and not the other way around is because sweden followed the neo-liberal coarse and Norway didn't.

The FRP is putting the conservativse in a strange position, if the conservatives join the FRP they'll be alienated, lots of hte smaller parties don't want to be in a gvoernment with the FRP, but if they don't they'll have a hard time running things.

It think it's time for the Labour party to start having real principles and standing for them, saying "we won't privatize" is not a principle.
 
Are you comparing with 2011. That is the local election, and the Progress Party always does worse in those elections. The progress party has lost 6.6% sice 2009. They were still happy of course, because they have improved since 2011 and its their first chance of governance.

The biggest winner was the conservative party who increased their vote share by 9.6% and got 26,8% of the vote.

That will never happen, and you know nothing about Norwegian politics if you think that is a likely scenario. We are not Sweden. If Conservatives even tried to do that, then they would be below 10% by next year.

First off the conservative party has no big problems with the progress party. They agree on most issues. It is the liberal and christian party that has trouble dealing with the progress party. In the unlikely scenario that they can't come to an agreement, then we will end up with a minority labour government. But that is not likely to happen, because it will lead to a massive defeat in 2017. The liberal party tried to stop the progress party last election and ended up below the 4% limit. This time they are more cooperative.

It doesn't look like they will be, the Liberal party is sticking with the Christian party, and if the Christian Party doesn't join the bourgois parties neither will the liberal party ... they you have a problem. The FRP is not liked by a large chunk of Norway.

What characterizes successful countries is leadership change. In fact the countries who never change leaders such as Venezuela, and Zimbabwe suck really badly. I also don't think China could have been where it is right now, if they didn't change leadership every 5 years.

Chat characterizes successful countries is good policy ... Venezuela reduced poverty by around 50% and extreme poverty by 70%, increased literacy rates, education healthcare, and economic activity overall ...

China doesn't change leadership, it changes figureheads, the same with the US.

I also want to challenge the view that Norway is particularly left wing. In terms of economic freedom, Norway is far ahead of France, and the whole southern Europe. The left in America talks about banksters robbing us, there is no such talk in Norway. The left in France implemented a 75% income tax. Anyone advocating for that in Norway would be called a radical. The right wing government in Sweden is fanatically in favour of liberal asylum laws. Both conservatives and progress party are in favour of tougher asylum laws. And in Stockholm and New York they have rent control. There is no talk about implementing rent control in Oslo.

What constitutes economic freedom? What Gave Norway economic freedom is a stable economy based on social-democratic policies ...

There is no talk about banksters robbing us in Norway because Norway has a heavily regulated financial sectar with the largest bank partially nationalized.

The left in Norway has the largest company by far essencially nationalized ... anyone advocating that in other countries would be called Hugo Chavez :p or Eva Morales. As far as rent controls, yes, Norway doesn't have rent controls, but it does have public financing of housing, and lots of public housing construction post ww2. Norway can avoid rent controls because of good public policy for decades, as well as strong Unions making sure wages stay high.

Norway has a strong cooperative economy, and a strong public sector subsidising the private sector.

The conservatives don't have new ideas ... its the same old Reagan Thatcher ideas that put the US and England where they are today.
 
With it's vast oil resources, Norway is the second wealthiest country in Europe. Their government is drowning in cash. It's a good thing that they want to take less from their people.
 
It doesn't look like they will be, the Liberal party is sticking with the Christian party, and if the Christian Party doesn't join the bourgois parties neither will the liberal party ... they you have a problem. The FRP is not liked by a large chunk of Norway.
Not really. If that is the case, then they are likely to support a minority FRP/Conservative government, because they have promised a change of government.

Really the debate is not about if there is going to be conservative government, but about how it will look like. There are really only two options, one is a government with all of the parties, and the other is a government of just Conservative/FRP with the support of liberal and christian party.

The reason liberal and christian party considers the first option is because they have some important issues they really want to implement, and they can only avoid it if they take part in the government.

Chat characterizes successful countries is good policy ... Venezuela reduced poverty by around 50% and extreme poverty by 70%, increased literacy rates, education healthcare, and economic activity overall ...
You really don't want to jump into that pit. On every single measure Venezuela has performed extremely poorly compared to the neighboring countries. Poverty is their showoff statistics, but even on that measure they are just average.

Their crime rate is out of control http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Homicides.png
Their health care is absolutly terrible http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Maternalrisk.png
Their infrastructure is terrible: http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Broadband.png
And now they are roaming into hyperinflation and massive shortages.

And what economic activity? Don't forget 2003 - 2008 was under a massive oil boom. Still Venezuela performed extremely poorly.

latam-rgdp.jpg






China doesn't change leadership, it changes figureheads, the same with the US.
Changing figureheads is parts of changing leadership. It allows new leaders who believe in different ideas come to Power, and that's very advantageous.



What constitutes economic freedom? What Gave Norway economic freedom is a stable economy based on social-democratic policies ...
We are using a neo-liberal ranking of economic freedom. Norway doesn't do too bad, meaning Norway is not that left wing.

There is no talk about banksters robbing us in Norway because Norway has a heavily regulated financial sectar with the largest bank partially nationalized.
No, there is no talk about it, because Norway wasn't affected by the crisis. The banks in Cyprus was partially nationalized and heavily regulated too. And they are still angry at the bankers.

The left in Norway has the largest company by far essencially nationalized ... anyone advocating that in other countries would be called Hugo Chavez :p or Eva Morales. As far as rent controls, yes, Norway doesn't have rent controls, but it does have public financing of housing, and lots of public housing construction post ww2. Norway can avoid rent controls because of good public policy for decades, as well as strong Unions making sure wages stay high.
You are talking about statoil? And no in most countries a company like that would have been nationalized too. Public financing of housing is something that existed in every single western countries, and even exist in neo-liberal Singapore.

Oil is the reason wages are high. You see, unions are even stronger in Sweden and Finland. But in Sweden and Finland wages are considerably lower than Norway. However, in Switzerland unions are not strong at all, but wages are high.

Wages is mostly a product of productivity. If all employees forced a 100% wage increase it will only lead to massive inflation. Your thinking was utterly debunked in the 80s across the world. You do not get a higher wage level by just pushing up wages faster, you will just get inflation.
 
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Not really. If that is the case, then they are likely to support a minority FRP/Conservative government, because they have promised a change of government.

Really the debate is not about if there is going to be conservative government, but about how it will look like. There are really only two options, one is a government with all of the parties, and the other is a government of just Conservative/FRP with the support of liberal and christian party.

The reason liberal and christian party considers the first option is because they have some important issues they really want to implement, and they can only avoid it if they take part in the government.

If it's the latter you won't necessarily hvae the support of the liberal and christian parties, or at least it will be very contingent.

You really don't want to jump into that pit. On every single measure Venezuela has performed extremely poorly compared to the neighboring countries. Poverty is their showoff statistics, but even on that measure they are just average.

Their crime rate is out of control http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Homicides.png
Their health care is absolutly terrible http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Maternalrisk.png
Their infrastructure is terrible: http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/Camlon/Broadband.png
And now they are roaming into hyperinflation and massive shortages.

And what economic activity? Don't forget 2003 - 2008 was under a massive oil boom. Still Venezuela performed extremely poorly.

latam-rgdp.jpg

Brazil has a very leftist government, Chile has had very social-democratic reforms in the past.

I can take other statistics showing Venezuela in a very good light ... such as poverty rates, health care accessibility, education, non oil economic activity, and so on.

Most of latin America is going left anyway, it's easy to pick and choose statistics.

Changing figureheads is parts of changing leadership. It allows new leaders who believe in different ideas come to Power, and that's very advantageous.

It depends on the ideas.

We are using a neo-liberal ranking of economic freedom. Norway doesn't do too bad, meaning Norway is not that left wing.

What does that mean? What neo-liberal ranking? Based on what criteria?

Norway IS left wing when compared to the rest of europe, when it comes to actual economic institutions.

No, there is no talk about it, because Norway wasn't affected by the crisis. The banks in Cyprus was partially nationalized and heavily regulated too. And they are still angry at the bankers.

Cyprus WAS affected by the crisis, as was any country that allowed their economies to be taken over by banks on the continent.

You are talking about statoil? And no in most countries a company like that would have been nationalized too. Public financing of housing is something that existed in every single western countries, and even exist in neo-liberal Singapore.

Oil is the reason wages are high. You see, unions are even stronger in Sweden and Finland. But in Sweden and Finland wages are considerably lower than Norway. However, in Switzerland unions are not strong at all, but wages are high.

Wages is mostly a product of productivity. If all employees forced a 100% wage increase it will only lead to massive inflation. Your thinking was utterly debunked in the 80s across the world. You do not get a higher wage level by just pushing up wages faster, you will just get inflation.

Singapore is not neo-liberal, it has a huge amount of state involvment and state subsidies .... Singapore is state-capitalist. Public housing post war was vastly higher than say in the US.

Unions in Sweden and Finland are strong, but both countries did radical neo-liberal reforms in the 90s that Norway didn't do, to that degree at least.

Wages are NOT a product of productivity, that's nonsense, look at the US ... productivity has sky rocketed and wages have dropped.

If Sweden got a 100% wage increase it wouldn't lead to inflation, and it didn't, you're assuming that workers will just spend all their extra money on things like food or housing (they won't), what will happen is more markets will open up, people will start spending money on recreation, go out to reastaurants more, save more .... THAT'S what happens, which is why higher wage countries have better quality of life.

post 1980s neo-liberal policy was destroyed in the crisis.
 
Sorry, but a 100% wage increase do not lead to inflation?! That is probably one of the dumbest things I have ever read. You said they will spend the money on services, but those service people need double salary too. The only way they can earn decent money is by increasing prices, meaning inflation. The reason there exist countries with decent standard of living is because there aren't too many people like Rgacky.

And no Norway is not particularly left wing. I think Rgacky just like Norwegian living standards and want to justify it. Fraser and Heritage measures economic freedom. They measure things like labor restrictions, financial regulations, business regulations, strength of labor unions, trade restrictions, taxes, government spending, government ownership, etc. And Norway is in the middle of Europe. Switzerland which you ignored in your last post is number 1 in Europe and also has salaries at the same level as Norway. If unions are the reason for high salaries, then explain Switzerland.

You also claimed South America is really left wing. That is not entirely true. In South America there are large differences between countries. Chile is very right wing, and Venezuela is very left wing, Brazil is somewhere in between. And not surprisingly countries like Chile does well, Brazil does decent and Venezuela economy is total garbage.

And if Singapore has huge amount of state involvment and state subsidies, then that means two things.
1. You don't know anything about Singapore
2. Every single country on earth has huge amount of state involvment and state subsidies and you should be happy.

And to everyone, Rgacky is extreme in Norway, and he would have trouble even fitting into the socialist party, who got 4% in the last election.
 
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Pure BS! Canada is right next to the US, there is absolutly no reason why Canada can't integrate themselves into the american market. Many states in America don't have a very high population density, but they are still doing fine. Canada even had a lot of oil per capita, so there are simply no excuses left. If it was the population that was the problem, then how did Switzerland manage to stay rich? They had more disadvantages than Canada as they were part of Europe, which was not very well integrated at that time.

Also, US was totally dominated by Democrats just like in Canada to the late 70s, because the congress was totally dominated by democrats. That was the longest period in history and it lead to heaps of problems when they had been in power for too long. You need leadership change, because you need to get rid of bad ideas. Luckily the 26 year streak of Democrat dominance ended and they voted in Reagan and a more republican congress who removed both the inflation and unemployment problems.

Canada did the same as the US some years later. What if Canada never changed government and kept the liberals in power till today? Then I don't think Canada would have a very good living standard.

And no, living standards 30-40 years ago was worse in Canada for all levels of income. The income inequality in the US and Canda was almost identical. http://worthwhile.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451688169e20153919a18dc970b-800wi http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cient_for_Household_Income_(1967_-_2007_).png
And Americans had much higher average wages. In those days many Canadians were leaving Canada and heading for the US.


Read what you are writing. You just listed 4, from different parties. Actually there has been 7, but nice try. Don't try to argue against everything I say, just because it says conservative under my name. When something is obviously true, then don't argue against it because it will do you no favours.


Thats because they got oil. Also, they are province with very limited power.

Your form New Zealand the little tiny wannabe-Australia, I am actually from Canada. We have have had only pattyies switch power three times Liberals-PC-Liberals-Conservative I don't count the tiny intermin leaders that only filled in as the role of the leader after the leader retired. We have has a better quality of life over the U.S. int he 50s we had an economic boom and a large immigration otherwise why do we have the same demographic issues the U.S. does. We have a better quality of life over the U.S now after like I said 70/100 year under Liberal governments. We are better than the Americans we do not have major budget issues and the deep social issues America does.
 
Your form New Zealand the little tiny wannabe-Australia,
Actually I am from Norway. Are you going to insult Norway now?

I am actually from Canada. We have have had only pattyies switch power three times Liberals-PC-Liberals-Conservative I don't count the tiny intermin leaders that only filled in as the role of the leader after the leader retired. We have has a better quality of life over the U.S. int he 50s we had an economic boom and a large immigration otherwise why do we have the same demographic issues the U.S. does. We have a better quality of life over the U.S now after like I said 70/100 year under Liberal governments. We are better than the Americans we do not have major budget issues and the deep social issues America does.
Switching three times in 30 years is not little, thats pretty good. Again, if something is obviously true, then don't argue against it, it just makes you look foolish. That Canada has been changing government more now than in the past is an indisputable fact.

Yes, Canada is pretty good now. But again that's after Canada started voting for both conservative and liberal governments. With the exception of some patriotic Canadians, it was quite clear that living standards was better in the US in the 70 - 90s. There is a reason a lot of Canadians emigrated to the US.

Talking about deficit. Canada had huge problems with the deficits in the past

fed_surplus.png
 
Sorry, but a 100% wage increase do not lead to inflation?! That is probably one of the dumbest things I have ever read. You said they will spend the money on services, but those service people need double salary too. The only way they can earn decent money is by increasing prices, meaning inflation. The reason there exist countries with decent standard of living is because there aren't too many people like Rgacky.

It would lead to some inflation, but not inflation that would outweigh the wage increase, Yes you'd have double wages for the people producing goods and services too, but you wouldn't have people spending double the amount of money, also you'd simply have to take a cut in profits and executive pay.

And no Norway is not particularly left wing. I think Rgacky just like Norwegian living standards and want to justify it. Fraser and Heritage measures economic freedom. They measure things like labor restrictions, financial regulations, business regulations, strength of labor unions, trade restrictions, taxes, government spending, government ownership, etc. And Norway is in the middle of Europe. Switzerland which you ignored in your last post is number 1 in Europe and also has salaries at the same level as Norway. If unions are the reason for high salaries, then explain Switzerland.

Yeah, those "economic freedom" measurements are bull****, Norway has a lot of economic freedom BECAUSE of left wing policies, I want it to be easy to set up a buisiness, all leftists do, thats why we support labor unions, and the commons.

Norway has very high taxes, huge amounts of public ownership, strong unions, and so on, obviously they went more neo-liberal in the 90s (as everyone else did), but the wealth of Norway was built from the 40s, and Norway was run essencially mostly by the Labor party since then. These Measurements (especially by the Heritige foundation) don't tell you much, since their criterium are very biased and ingore all sorts of stuff, actual policies are what I care about.

Switzerland has strong unions too, they also have a very large public sector, and has managed to retain their manufacturing sector.

You also claimed South America is really left wing. That is not entirely true. In South America there are large differences between countries. Chile is very right wing, and Venezuela is very left wing, Brazil is somewhere in between. And not surprisingly countries like Chile does well, Brazil does decent and Venezuela economy is total garbage.

And if Singapore has huge amount of state involvment and state subsidies, then that means two things.
1. You don't know anything about Singapore
2. Every single country on earth has huge amount of state involvment and state subsidies and you should be happy.

And to everyone, Rgacky is extreme in Norway, and he would have trouble even fitting into the socialist party, who got 4% in the last election.

Brazil is very left wing, look at the actual policies and not the rhetoric, Venezuela has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since Chavez, especially with lowering poverty, and increasing economic participation (Yes they have problems, but so does every economy), the same with Bolivia.

Chile has had a right wing president for 3 years, prior to that it was 20 years of socialist and leftist governments that brought Chile out of the dark Pinochet hole, and did tons of social-democratic reforms, and tons of social spending and public economic policies.

You obviously don't know anything about Singapore, the state owns an equivalent of 60% of the economy in state holdings ... You don't hear about it, because corporations LIKE this and don't complain about it being an "impingement on the market" ...
 
It would lead to some inflation, but not inflation that would outweigh the wage increase, Yes you'd have double wages for the people producing goods and services too, but you wouldn't have people spending double the amount of money, also you'd simply have to take a cut in profits and executive pay.
History proves you wrong. Massive wage increases actually leads to the opposite, meaning lower wages. The reason is because massive inflation harms the economy.

And what makes you think executives will take a cut in profits and executive pay. They are not doing a charity, when inflation is high they are going to increase their salaries too.

Yeah, those "economic freedom" measurements are bull****, Norway has a lot of economic freedom BECAUSE of left wing policies, I want it to be easy to set up a buisiness, all leftists do, thats why we support labor unions, and the commons.

Norway has very high taxes, huge amounts of public ownership, strong unions, and so on, obviously they went more neo-liberal in the 90s (as everyone else did), but the wealth of Norway was built from the 40s, and Norway was run essencially mostly by the Labor party since then. These Measurements (especially by the Heritige foundation) don't tell you much, since their criterium are very biased and ingore all sorts of stuff, actual policies are what I care about.

Switzerland has strong unions too, they also have a very large public sector, and has managed to retain their manufacturing sector.
No, all leftiest do not want it to be easy to set up businesses. It is much harder to set up a business in California than in Texas. Leftiest want regulations of start ups to prevent predatory companies, and that increases red tape. And start up is only one of their indicators. Do leftists want to reduce labour regulations, making it easier to fire employees? Do leftists want to reduce regulations on trade, allowing foreign companies to outcompete local products? Do leftist want to reduce government? Do leftist want lower taxes? Do leftists want to reduce public ownership and have weak unions?

Cause that is what the index is measuring. The argument that Norway has right wing policies due to left wing policies makes zero sense. No, what you care about is results. You see that Norway has the best welfare state in the world, and hence brand it left wing. But they have the best welfare, because the system is not totally left wing. I however look at policies, and Norway is in the middle in Europe. For instance France is to the left of Norway. In France they adopted a 75% tax rate. The only party who want to do something similar in Norway, got 1% of the vote. You said Norway has really high taxes, but not really. For 167% of average income, Norway has a tax rate of 43%. Belgium is at 61%. Norway is number 14 of 34 in the OECD.

Relative to the rest of Europe Switzerland does not have strong unions or a very large public sector. But their wages is higher. That seem to conflict with your theory that big government increase wages.



Brazil is very left wing, look at the actual policies and not the rhetoric, Venezuela has improved SIGNIFICANTLY since Chavez, especially with lowering poverty, and increasing economic participation (Yes they have problems, but so does every economy), the same with Bolivia.
No, Venezuela economy is total garbage and even on relative poverty Venezuela does not do well. BTW, their absolute poverty rate is miuch higher than indicated, because the black market and offical currency do not match.

That was proven to you before where I gave you actual data, and you did not respond to any of the data. Also Brazil is in no way as left wing as Venezuela.

Chile has had a right wing president for 3 years, prior to that it was 20 years of socialist and leftist governments that brought Chile out of the dark Pinochet hole, and did tons of social-democratic reforms, and tons of social spending and public economic policies.
I thought you said you did not look at rethoric. Those social democratic leaders in Chile are keeping Pinochet right wing policies. Just look at economic freedom rankings and Chile is way above the rest.

So Chile is very right wing, Venezuela is very left wing, and Brazil is somewhere in between. So how come Chile is doing so much better than Venezuela, and brazil is somewhere in between. If socialism worked so well, then Venezuela should be the best performing economy.

You obviously don't know anything about Singapore, the state owns an equivalent of 60% of the economy in state holdings ... You don't hear about it, because corporations LIKE this and don't complain about it being an "impingement on the market" ...
So if the government owns a lot, then you are left wing? I am more interested in actual policies, such as labour regulations, welfare, crime sentences, business regulations, minimum wage, taxes, etc.
 
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Lower taxes and privatization? In Scandinavia? The hallmark location used by social progressives to explain how great it could be here?

Now, the article linked below is from the NY Times, so it tries real hard to focus on another issue; the massacre 2 years ago. But even the Times had to at least state the portion I quote below:



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/world/europe/norway-elects-a-conservative-as-its-premier.html?_r=0

What does this say about the progressive movement in Scandinavia? Or anywhere for that matter, in these economic times?

Ha, you should post this on the "Socialism works until you run out of other people's money" thread.
 
I hope you realize that conservatives in the US sit to the left of the current democrat in chief as well.

So you guys have gone all the way around? So far to the Right you are left of Obama? LOL Obama is slightly to the Right of Nixon.
 
As shown before Venezuela failed in terms of health care, and economy. But has Venezuela been good at reducing poverty like RGacky3 claims? Lets take a look.

Poverty rate Venezula:
(Take into account there is a huge gap between offical currency and black market currency. Hence the absolute/extreme poverty rate is too low. In fact since the gap between the black market and offical currency is increasing, then absolute poverty is increasing too)

poverty.jpg


Poverty rate Chile

chile.gif
 
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So you guys have gone all the way around? So far to the Right you are left of Obama? LOL Obama is slightly to the Right of Nixon.

Obama might as well be a Wall Street hedge fund manager at this point he plays so far to the right economically, but I suppose Lord Vader-Chaney found his Emperor,, replete with a drone army.
 
Obama might as well be a Wall Street hedge fund manager at this point he plays so far to the right economically, but I suppose Lord Vader-Chaney found his Emperor,, replete with a drone army.

What do you expect Obama to do. He is limited by congress.

What would you have done differently?
 
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