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Northam: "I'm not going anywhere". Calls slaves, "indentured servants"

Nap

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jnug

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I have said this in different ways before, but if Northam had to answer to me, my issues with him would be that he is making it too easy to draw a through line from the 25 year old lunkhead in 1984 to 59 year old Gov. Oblivious in 2019. That is where the State AG has made a much easier path for himself IMO. Northam might get away with it. But I just don't know why he is trying to straddle a line that no Dem, even a Virginia Dem should be trying to straddle.
 

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No, that is 400 years of African American History. 1619 was the first documented arrival of Africans to the colonies, however they weren't slaves. It wasn't until decades later that slavery as we remember it developed.
Can you verify with certainty that those first "20 odd Africans" on that first boat were able to buy their way out of indentured servitude at some point in their lives? Suppose some of them were then sold into outright slavery? How about those qualifying as indentured servants that came after those first 20. Can we say with certainty what happened to them? A few odd decades as a preamble to 250 years of slavery and 100 years of failed Reconstruction and issues that still plague us today make for pretty tough sledding if you are going to mince words from the position that Northam finds himself in IMO. As I said previously, I simply do not know why he sees some benefit in straddling the line he appears to be trying to straddle.
 
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Hawkeye10

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The level of hubris is inexplicable. Northam is refusing to leave and in an attempt to kick off his 3-year apology and redemption tour, he sat down with Gayle King-a black woman- and discussed Virginia's history of "indentured servitude".

Ralph Northam interview: Virginia governor tells Gayle King "I'm not going anywhere" in face of calls to resign - CBS News

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM: Well it has been a difficult week. And you know if you look at Virginia's history we are now at the 400 year anniversary, just 90 miles from here in 1619. The first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort what we call now Fort Monroe and while--

GAYLE KING: Also known as slavery.

GAYLE KING: And why you think you still deserve this job and so many people are calling for you to step down?

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM: Well again we- we have worked very hard. We've had a good first year. And and I'm a leader. I've been in some very difficult situations. Life and death situations taking care of sick children. And right now--

GAYLE KING: Because you're a doctor, yes?

GOV. RALPH NORTHAM: --right now, Virginia needs someone that can heal. There's no better person to do that than a doctor. Virginia also needs someone who is strong, who has empathy, who has courage and who has a moral compass. And that's why I'm not going anywhere. I have learned from this. I have a lot more to learn. But we're in a unique opportunity now. Again the 400 year anniversary of the history whether it be good or bad in Virginia to really make some impactful changes--
This guy illustrates how we would often be better off not eliminating those who fail purity tests, instead requesting that they get better and seek redemption.

"Off with their heads!" was always a sketchy plan.
 

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Can you verify with certainty that those first "20 odd Africans" on that first boat were able to buy their way out of indentured servitude at some point in their lives? Suppose some of them were then sold into outright slavery? How about those qualifying as indentured servants that came after those first 20. Can we say with certainty what happened to them? A few odd decades as a preamble to 250 years of slavery and 100 years of failed Reconstruction and issues that still plague us today make for pretty tough sledding if you are going to mince words from the position that Northam finds himself in IMO. As I said previously, I simply do not know why he sees some benefit in straddling the line he appears to be trying to straddle.
With certainty? No, because I haven't seen any information regarding that. We do know that 2 years later Anthony Johnson arrived as an indentured servant and was later freed eventually having his own slaves. So it seems likely that they would have also been freed as indentured servitude typically lasted 4-7 years and it was 20 years later that indentured servitude transitioned into slavery and it was the Viginia Slave codes of 1705 that made anyone imported not of a Christian nation a slave.
 

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Well of course Northam isn't going anywhere. The heat is now mysteriously off of him, and on two others.

Personally, I think all three of them should be run out of Virginia on a rail.
They undoubtedly will be.Virginia has traditionally been a swing state. About as many D as R Governors. That will change if Va's R's smarten up. That's not a given.
 

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BTW, I'm so hoping for a the full Kavanaugh treatment of Fairfax, complete with Handmaid's Tale harpies and Alyssa Milano giving Fairfax the death ray stare.
For the FULL 'I like beer' treatment you left off the FBI investigation (which Fairfax is calling for).

The caveman cult is so entwined with 'lock her up' they think innocent until proven guilty only applies to the cult.
 

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jnug

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With certainty? No, because I haven't seen any information regarding that. We do know that 2 years later Anthony Johnson arrived as an indentured servant and was later freed eventually having his own slaves. So it seems likely that they would have also been freed as indentured servitude typically lasted 4-7 years and it was 20 years later that indentured servitude transitioned into slavery and it was the Viginia Slave codes of 1705 that made anyone imported not of a Christian nation a slave.
So what benefit is it to Northam to straddle some line that from a political perspective is simply meaningless.

Those first 20 Africans were stolen off a slave ship and delivered to Virginia on a ship flying a Dutch flag. So What! i fail to see how two or even more than two decades of indentured servants being delivered to our shores makes a dimes worth of difference when considering that it simply oiled the gears for what followed and we simply do not have records to determine if and when some number of indentured servants were simply sold into slavery. It is certainly more likely that some number of them were sold into outright slavery than that they were ALL indentured servants that ultimately bought their freedom. At any rate, slaves were delivered here and accepted here for 170 years and traded, bought and sold here for another 60 years after that, hundreds of thousands of them. What, did slave ships intended for elsewhere all lose their way in the fog? Two decades of accepting indentured servants of some unspecific number and with unverifiable result in most cases sort of pales in comparison.

Further, as I said earlier I simply do not see what logic Northam is using to even straddle this line. With what purpose given his current predicament. If he wanted to be truly accurate historically, he should have made it clear that his indentured servitude comment was a stab at historical accuracy and not meant to imply some claim of colonial innocence given our slide right into outright slavery! Sort of doesn't matter Ralph.
 

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As I said elsewhere . . .

Let's not kid ourselves.

If Northam, Fairfax, and the AG all go, then the Republicans take the governor's mansion.

The Democrats won't let that happen.

Fairfax is the most vulnerable. If he goes, then one of the other two has to stay.

If one of the admitted blackface boys stay, then both have to stay.

Principle-of-the-moment only goes so far when real power is at stake. After all, Franken would still be in the Senate if MN had a GOP governor.
 

jnug

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As I said elsewhere . . .

Let's not kid ourselves.

If Northam, Fairfax, and the AG all go, then the Republicans take the governor's mansion.

The Democrats won't let that happen.

Fairfax is the most vulnerable. If he goes, then one of the other two has to stay.

If one of the admitted blackface boys stay, then both have to stay.

Principle-of-the-moment only goes so far when real power is at stake. After all, Franken would still be in the Senate if MN had a GOP governor.
I suspect the AG is the safety valve if Fairfax blows up and if Northam keeps sticking his foot in his mouth. My God I am beginning to have some real sympathy for Northam's wife. She appears to be the brains in the family. But I doubt she is in many of Northam's "strategy meetings".
 

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I suspect the AG is the safety valve if Fairfax blows up and if Northam keeps sticking his foot in his mouth. My God I am beginning to have some real sympathy for Northam's wife. She appears to be the brains in the family. But I doubt she is in many of Northam's "strategy meetings".
It'll be hard to make the argument that Northam should go but the AG stay. The offense is the same. Logic would REALLY have to be tied into knots.

Northam does appear to be a bit of a phenomenon, I agree.
 

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So what benefit is it to Northam to straddle some line that from a political perspective is simply meaningless.

Those first 20 Africans were stolen off a slave ship and delivered to Virginia on a ship flying a Dutch flag. So What! i fail to see how two or even more than two decades of indentured servants being delivered to our shores makes a dimes worth of difference when considering that it simply oiled the gears for what followed and we simply do not have records to determine if and when some number of indentured servants were simply sold into slavery. It is certainly more likely that some number of them were sold into outright slavery than that they were ALL indentured servants that ultimately bought their freedom. At any rate, slaves were delivered here and accepted here for 170 years and traded, bought and sold here for another 60 years after that, hundreds of thousands of them. What, did slave ships intended for elsewhere all lose their way in the fog? Two decades of accepting indentured servants of some unspecific number and with unverifiable result in most cases sort of pales in comparison.

Further, as I said earlier I simply do not see what logic Northam is using to even straddle this line. With what purpose given his current predicament. If he wanted to be truly accurate historically, he should have made it clear that his indentured servitude comment was a stab at historical accuracy and not meant to imply some claim of colonial innocence given our slide right into outright slavery! Sort of doesn't matter Ralph.
I believe you are simply over thinking this. This is both black history month and the 400 year anniversary of their arrival to this country, he was likely trying to make the point that we have a long and troubled history in America and that as a "healer" he needed to stay in office or some othe BS.
 

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It'll be hard to make the argument that Northam should go but the AG stay. The offense is the same. Logic would REALLY have to be tied into knots.

Northam does appear to be a bit of a phenomenon, I agree.
The AG's saving grace appears to be that he has actually made some progress since 1980 at 19 years old whereas Northam appears to have regressed from 1984 at age 25. Clearly there are Virginians cutting Northam some slack at this point or at least trying to. Northam just won't cut them a break. I figure if they are willing to cut Northam some slack they will likely kiss the AG's feet if he ends up the last line of defense against turning the Governor's Mansion over to a Republican.
 

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I believe you are simply over thinking this. This is both black history month and the 400 year anniversary of their arrival to this country, he was likely trying to make the point that we have a long and troubled history in America and that as a "healer" he needed to stay in office or some othe BS.
Easily done without leaving himself open like he did. Who is he trying to appeal to politically, Southern gentry with a Northeast Elitist sort of mentality? Christ you couldn't rub two of those together to make a third if you had to in this day and age. Northam is on very shaky ground and if he is STILL unable to recognize that his next public comment could push him over the edge then whether he is good to his kids or doesn't kick his dog isn't going to mean very much.

When asked, 47% of the people in his state want him gone and 47% are saying he should stay. Whenever that IS the polling question of import and the best you can muster is 47-47, ya' got problems and as a politician your next public statement could be the one that kills you. There are only six chambers in most revolvers and if Northam keeps playing Russian Roulette he is going to land on the loaded chamber. He has already gone through three pulls of the trigger. He is still alive....but not by much. If not for Fairfax he would be way dead by now.

It does not matter whether I am overthinking it. Clearly Northam is under-thinking it.....WAY under-thinking it.
 
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The AG's saving grace appears to be that he has actually made some progress since 1980 at 19 years old whereas Northam appears to have regressed from 1984 at age 25. Clearly there are Virginians cutting Northam some slack at this point or at least trying to. Northam just won't cut them a break. I figure if they are willing to cut Northam some slack they will likely kiss the AG's feet if he ends up the last line of defense against turning the Governor's Mansion over to a Republican.
Well said.

Virginians are evenly split on whether Northam should go or be given an opportunity to redeem himself. I come down on the “he needs to go” side. He lost me as soon as he acknowledged that he was in the black face/KKK pic. I was in my early 20’s in 1984 and damn well knew that dressing up as he did was antithetical to everything I believe in and was taught growing up in the South.

Herring’s failure was not the same IMO. Where Northam’s depiction could not be seen for anything but the hateful racism that it was, Herring’s was simply a thoughtless (and insensitive) impersonation of a rapper he and his friends listened to.
 

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Easily done without leaving himself open like he did. Who is he trying to appeal to politically, Southern gentry with a Northeast Elitist sort of mentality? Christ you couldn't rub two of those together to make a third if you had to in this day and age. Northam is on very shaky ground and if he is STILL unable to recognize that his next public comment could push him over the edge then whether he is good to his kids or doesn't kick his dog isn't going to mean very much.

When asked, 47% of the people in his state want him gone and 47% are saying he should stay. Whenever that IS the polling question of import and the best you can muster is 47-47, ya' got problems and as a politician your next public statement could be the one that kills you. There are only six chambers in most revolvers and if Northam keeps playing Russian Roulette he is going to land on the loaded chamber. He has already gone through three pulls of the trigger. He is still alive....but not by much. If not for Fairfax he would be way dead by now.

It does not matter whether I am overthinking it. Clearly Northam is under-thinking it.....WAY under-thinking it.
I agree Northam is under-thinking it and only making matters worse. He should be in hiding right now and simply let everything blow over as every word he makes right now is going to be put under extreme scrutiny. Public perception is not going to give him the benefit of doubt after everything that happened so even when he makes factual statements (like in this situation) confirmation bias is going to kick in and his comments will come off as racist or insensitive.
 

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Ralph Northam posed for that photo 35 years ago and let's be honest, people just weren't aware back then how injurious and insulting that would become. These public shamings, where people have a frenzied rush to chew up and spit out the targets of our righteous indignation, serve to push us into our respective corners, and it's further exacerbating the tribalism that is tearing our country apart.

Ralph Northam is a pediatric neurologist and has devoted his adult life to healing children, especially within low-income communities. He was a doctor in the U.S. Army for 8 years and tended to wounded during the Gulf War, men of all colors and creeds. Even after being elected lieutenant governor of Virginia he continued to work as a pediatric neurologist. We know that as governor, he expanded Medicaid to hundreds of thousands of uninsured Virginians, a disproportionate number of whom are minorities. We know he used his position to reinstate voting rights to former felons. We know he has pushed hard to improve the quality of public education, particularly in traditionally African-American communities. We know his pastor is African-American and, although Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax could undoubtedly have been elected with any running mate, we know that it was important to Northam that he be succeeded by an African-American leader. Northam strongly condemned the White Supremacists in Charlottesville.

I think that rather than look at a photo from 1984 and judge any man, not only Northam, based on a moment in their life that they made a bad decision, that we should see the person they are today and judge them by their deeds now rather than those of 35 years ago. If I, even for one second, was convinced that Ralph Northam was in any way a racist, I would put my name on a petition to have him step down immediately. I'm just not convinced that he's a racist at all. I looked at the way he has conducted himself as a physician and as a Governor for Virginia. What I've seen is a man that has done well for Virginia and not only for Whites, but for the Black community as well. Do we really want to see a man forced to pay a heavy price for one bad decision made 35 years ago while erasing the positive changes he's made for the State of Virginia? Will punishing this man for a mistake in judgement made while in college do anything at all to erase racism in this country.

I just don't see racism in Ralph Northam. A racist would have never accomplished so much to benefit the communities he serves that are so racially diverse if he were.
 

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The state's Democrats are probably pounding their heads against walls, wishing this would go away.
So what does Northam do? Doubles down on the stupidity with this latest bit of dumbness.
 

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Every time he opens his mouth he justifies the calls for his resignation.
 

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The AG's saving grace appears to be that he has actually made some progress since 1980 at 19 years old whereas Northam appears to have regressed from 1984 at age 25. Clearly there are Virginians cutting Northam some slack at this point or at least trying to. Northam just won't cut them a break. I figure if they are willing to cut Northam some slack they will likely kiss the AG's feet if he ends up the last line of defense against turning the Governor's Mansion over to a Republican.
Precisely. Beyond the fact that he clearly doesn't understand this issue very well, he's like a child in a man's body. How he's made it this far without already completely fubar-ing something is kind of astounding when you think about it.
 

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Ralph Northam posed for that photo 35 years ago and let's be honest, people just weren't aware back then how injurious and insulting that would become. These public shamings, where people have a frenzied rush to chew up and spit out the targets of our righteous indignation, serve to push us into our respective corners, and it's further exacerbating the tribalism that is tearing our country apart.

Ralph Northam is a pediatric neurologist and has devoted his adult life to healing children, especially within low-income communities. He was a doctor in the U.S. Army for 8 years and tended to wounded during the Gulf War, men of all colors and creeds. Even after being elected lieutenant governor of Virginia he continued to work as a pediatric neurologist. We know that as governor, he expanded Medicaid to hundreds of thousands of uninsured Virginians, a disproportionate number of whom are minorities. We know he used his position to reinstate voting rights to former felons. We know he has pushed hard to improve the quality of public education, particularly in traditionally African-American communities. We know his pastor is African-American and, although Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax could undoubtedly have been elected with any running mate, we know that it was important to Northam that he be succeeded by an African-American leader. Northam strongly condemned the White Supremacists in Charlottesville.

I think that rather than look at a photo from 1984 and judge any man, not only Northam, based on a moment in their life that they made a bad decision, that we should see the person they are today and judge them by their deeds now rather than those of 35 years ago. If I, even for one second, was convinced that Ralph Northam was in any way a racist, I would put my name on a petition to have him step down immediately. I'm just not convinced that he's a racist at all. I looked at the way he has conducted himself as a physician and as a Governor for Virginia. What I've seen is a man that has done well for Virginia and not only for Whites, but for the Black community as well. Do we really want to see a man forced to pay a heavy price for one bad decision made 35 years ago while erasing the positive changes he's made for the State of Virginia? Will punishing this man for a mistake in judgement made while in college do anything at all to erase racism in this country.

I just don't see racism in Ralph Northam. A racist would have never accomplished so much to benefit the communities he serves that are so racially diverse if he were.
TBH, I don't see racism in Northam and I don't think the Dems do either. I think they saw a massive problem in Virginia which he actually made worse, so they wanted to dump him to change the narrative. They didn't count on scandal from #2.
 

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Ralph Northam posed for that photo 35 years ago and let's be honest, people just weren’t aware back then how injurious and insulting that would become.
Yes, we were. Absolutely.

These public shamings, where people have a frenzied rush to chew up and spit out the targets of our righteous indignation, serve to push us into our respective corners, and it's further exacerbating the tribalism that is tearing our country apart.

Ralph Northam is a pediatric neurologist and has devoted his adult life to healing children, especially within low-income communities. He was a doctor in the U.S. Army for 8 years and tended to wounded during the Gulf War, men of all colors and creeds. Even after being elected lieutenant governor of Virginia he continued to work as a pediatric neurologist. We know that as governor, he expanded Medicaid to hundreds of thousands of uninsured Virginians, a disproportionate number of whom are minorities. We know he used his position to reinstate voting rights to former felons. We know he has pushed hard to improve the quality of public education, particularly in traditionally African-American communities. We know his pastor is African-American and, although Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax could undoubtedly have been elected with any running mate, we know that it was important to Northam that he be succeeded by an African-American leader. Northam strongly condemned the White Supremacists in Charlottesville.

I think that rather than look at a photo from 1984 and judge any man, not only Northam, based on a moment in their life that they made a bad decision, that we should see the person they are today and judge them by their deeds now rather than those of 35 years ago. If I, even for one second, was convinced that Ralph Northam was in any way a racist, I would put my name on a petition to have him step down immediately. I'm just not convinced that he's a racist at all. I looked at the way he has conducted himself as a physician and as a Governor for Virginia. What I've seen is a man that has done well for Virginia and not only for Whites, but for the Black community as well. Do we really want to see a man forced to pay a heavy price for one bad decision made 35 years ago while erasing the positive changes he's made for the State of Virginia? Will punishing this man for a mistake in judgement made while in college do anything at all to erase racism in this country.

I just don't see racism in Ralph Northam. A racist would have never accomplished so much to benefit the communities he serves that are so racially diverse if he were.
Northam’s done a great deal of good over the course of his career/life, no arguing that. Now he’s being called out for an inexcusable act he committed decades ago, and so far he’s handled it about as bad as anyone could.

If Northam remains in office, for the remainder of his term those people who’s support he used to be able to count on will avoid him like the plague and he will be constantly reminded of his sin by the opposition, effectively making him useless.

The best thing he can do for us now is resign.
 

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The AG's saving grace appears to be that he has actually made some progress since 1980 at 19 years old whereas Northam appears to have regressed from 1984 at age 25. Clearly there are Virginians cutting Northam some slack at this point or at least trying to. Northam just won't cut them a break. I figure if they are willing to cut Northam some slack they will likely kiss the AG's feet if he ends up the last line of defense against turning the Governor's Mansion over to a Republican.
We'll see how it plays out.

I have little doubt, though, that principle will not triumph over a real loss of power. In this morality theater going on over the last few years (such as with Franken), that wasn't really in play.
 

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Yes, we were. Absolutely.


Northam’s done a great deal of good over the course of his career/life, no arguing that. Now he’s being called out for an inexcusable act he committed decades ago, and so far he’s handled it about as bad as anyone could.

If Northam remains in office, for the remainder of his term those people who’s support he used to be able to count on will avoid him like the plague and he will be constantly reminded of his sin by the opposition, effectively making him useless.

The best thing he can do for us now is resign.
Sure, just as they've done to Trump.
 
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