North Carolina On Cusp Of Passing Worst Voter Suppression Bill In The Nation

[sawyerloggingon]

Of course we do: "Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas."
Voter Fraud: It's Real, But Rare - ABC News

"The analysis of 2,068 reported fraud cases by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. With 146 million registered voters in the United States, those represent about one for every 15 million prospective voters."
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...r-fraud-rare-united-states.html#ixzz2Zv4gAe9L

Tip of the ice burg

 

[Fiddytree]

It sounds like they are targeting people who need to cheat to win. I know that will fall heavily on the Democrats. Darn.

If they are going after cheaters, why cut off hours to vote, when it has already been established as recently as the last election that long lines can exist, or removing the directive for schools to have registration drives?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

As previously posted, voter fraud is extremely hard to detect when adequate identification is not required, and I have no problem with allowing 17yo to register 90 days before an election where they will be eighteen at the time of the election...

Not really..
Political science: Election forensics | The Economist
Roxanne Rubin, Nevada Republican, Accepts Plea Deal After Committing Voter Fraud

And when we have detected already numerous counts of fraud it must not be that hard to "detect"

 

[Goshin]

I've managed well as well. However, sometimes it is necessary to scratch your head at the pressing need for added restrictions, especially in lieu of previous allowances being quite useful in encouraging voting. Then again, you're talking to a North Dakotan that doesn't have to register to vote in the first place.

I'm in favor of reasonable measures to suppress voter fraud.... but I'll grant you some of the measures listed don't really seem related to that, particularly. To me anyway, but I'm not an expert on voter fraud and how it happens.

 

[Misterveritis]

If the Right is really that concerned about voter fraud in America, they can request outside oversight of elections by the UN....................

Or we can just have the states pass common sense laws. No muss. No fuss but the fraud will certainly be slowed greatly.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I will not be happy until you admit that you used the term as a matter of rhetoric.

But i dont wanna!!!! :boohoo:

 

[Caine]

Voter fraud is one of the most rare things in America and that is a fact.

Considering the standards are so lax...... its one of the most rare things to be able to PROVE in America. THAT is a fact.

So if your 18 on the election day but cant register on that day and you cant register early what is the legal reason for that? What is the justification behind that?

16 year olds have two years before they can vote in an election............I can see an exception for someone whose birthday is between registration cut off and election day. That is a far cry from allowing early registration up to 16 years old... which is just stupid.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Tip of the ice burg

View attachment 67150875

Oh so you have evidence that there are more out there!? :lamo So we do have a problem?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

If they are going after cheaters, why cut off hours to vote, when it has already been established as recently as the last election that long lines exist, or removing the directive for schools to have registration drives?

Why not set up enough precincts to handle the projected voting demand. There is no suggestion to cut off the hours, just the line waiting. Why do schools need to have voter registration drives for those who won't be qualified to vote in an immediate upcoming election?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Considering the standards are so lax...... its one of the most rare things to be able to PROVE in America. THAT is a fact.

No..

Post #43.

16 year olds have two years before they can vote in an election............I can see an exception for someone whose birthday is between registration cut off and election day. That is a far cry from allowing early registration up to 16 years old... which is just stupid.

Ok fair enough.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Oh so you have evidence that there are more out there!? :lamo So we do have a problem?

So in your opinion with the very limited enforcement we have now we get 100% of the perps. :roll:

 

[Misterveritis]

If they are going after cheaters, why cut off hours to vote, when it has already been established as recently as the last election that long lines exist, or removing the directive for schools to have registration drives?

Because that allows one side to go out and drag people to the polls to make up their deficits.

Set rules and stick with them. When the polls close if you are in line you get to vote. If you are not then you get to try again next time.

Democrats know that students are stupidly idealistic. Why allow voting drives among high school students who are not eligible to vote?

I think we should raise the voting age to 25 unless one is in the military, or a first responder. Our brains are not fully formed until then. That may be why so many young start out as Democrats. Some never grow up. Some do.

 

[DaveFagan]

I'm in favor of reasonable measures to suppress voter fraud.... but I'll grant you some of the measures listed don't really seem related to that, particularly. To me anyway, but I'm not an expert on voter fraud and how it happens.

That's the point. It doesn't. Now, as regards long voting lines, all you have to do is reduce the number of machines in a precinct and the Democratic voters in that precinct will run out of time before all voters have been able to cast their ballots, but, surely, Republicans would not stoop so low. Actually, there is no low limit.

 

[Caine]

Because that allows one side to go out and drag people to the polls to make up their deficits.

Set rules and stick with them. When the polls close if you are in line you get to vote. If you are not then you get to try again next time.

Democrats know that students are stupidly idealistic. Why allow voting drives among high school students who are not eligible to vote?

I think we should raise the voting age to 25 unless one is in the military, or a first responder. Our brains are not fully formed until then. That may be why so many young start out as Democrats. Some never grow up. Some do.

its off topic, but..... its funny you mention that last part.

I was a hardcore liberal type when I first joined here..........

I've been a member here for nearly 8 years (this september)

 

[Fiddytree]

Because that allows one side to go out and drag people to the polls to make up their deficits.

Set rules and stick with them. When the polls close if you are in line you get to vote. If you are not then you get to try again next time.

Democrats know that students are stupidly idealistic. Why allow voting drives among high school students who are not eligible to vote?

I think we should raise the voting age to 25 unless one is in the military, or a first responder. Our brains are not fully formed until then. That may be why so many young start out as Democrats. Some never grow up. Some do.

So you mean that voter drives can sometimes add political advantage to a specific party, depending on where and when it exists? I would not have guessed. I would also suppose it would be highly desirable for number crunchers on the other side to try to even the odds through whatever legal avenues available, huh?

In high school, even if you want to talk about the silliness of registering 16 or even 17 year olds, there are a number of 18 year olds that are eligible to vote. In the high school curriculum it is heavily demanded that schools teach and encourage civic responsibility. This is one means of doing so.

Of course young people are idealistic and fickle. That's why for the most part I thought the Democrats needed to lessen their reliance upon young people. That being said, this isn't necessary nor is it in the best judgment. Your suggestion to raise the voting age to 25 doesn't matter in the slightest, as it is not a popular opinion in either the population or the leaders of this country, and it is unnecessarily shaping your views on voter law.

 

[head of joaquin]

If true you have nothing to worry about, do you?

Sure we do -- a dying wounded animal thrashing around wildly and can hurt things. That's the GOP in its current teaparty death throes.

 

[Bonzai]

Or we can just have the states pass common sense laws. No muss. No fuss but the fraud will certainly be slowed greatly.

I'll take that as a "No, the Right does not take voter fraud very seriously"......................Guess it's voter suppression as was stated...............

 

[head of joaquin]

Considering the standards are so lax...... its one of the most rare things to be able to PROVE in America. THAT is a fact.

.

Actually it's almost impossible to engage in voter fraud and not get caught, especially if you want to alter the outcome of an election. Some guy voting twice using a falsely registered name is unlikely to change any outcome and will likely get caught given if the person whose ID he stole votes. If he's conspiring with thousands of other fraudsters to impact an election result, he will certainly get caught and be sent to prison for a long time.

In contrast, the way to impact elections is to take legitimate voters off the rolls right before the election, like Jeb Bush did in Florida in 2000, disenfranchising about 10,000 mostly black voters, giving his pretender brother the election. Or you run fake registration schemes like Romney's operatives did in the 2010 election (they got caught), in which you pretend to register democrats, but you don't send in the paperwork and instead only register republicans.

But I really love the conservatives' fake outrage about ID laws. It's what conservatism is all about: pretense.

 

[head of joaquin]

If the Marxist had a son would he sound like you?

"The Marxist" -- that's so quaint.

 

[Bonzai]

its off topic, but..... its funny you mention that last part.

I was a hardcore liberal type when I first joined here..........

I've been a member here for nearly 8 years (this september)

LOL.............Right................

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

"ALEC, the shadowy corporate-funded proponent of so-called “model legislation” for passage by pliant state legislatures, announced that it would disband its “Public Safety and Elections” task force. The task force has been the prime vehicle for proposing and advancing what critics describe as voter-suppression and anti-democratic initiatives—not just restrictive Voter ID laws but also plans to limit the ability of citizens to petition for referendums and constitutional changes that favor workers and communities."

Read more: ALEC Disbands Task Force Responsible for Voter ID, 'Stand Your Ground' Laws | The Nation ALEC Disbands Task Force Responsible for Voter ID, 'Stand Your Ground' Laws | The Nation
Follow us: @thenation on Twitter | TheNationMagazine on Facebook

Disband :sinking: Sad that these groups exist. I think we are going to see more of these drafted legislative pieces which will effectively pull any kind of political control away from outside groups that oppose these so called free market initiatives or at least are in the way of them. So much for democracy.

 

[MaggieD]

How exactly does this suppress the vote?

It appears that all one has to do is register and then vote on the proper day during the proper hours. That doesn't seem too difficult.

Democrats, being used to voting early and often, don't like it like that.

 

[ChezC3]

The Senate will consider substituted language for HB 589 on Tuesday afternoon. Among the dozens of changes, these are the most onerous for North Carolina voters:

Implementing a strict voter ID requirement that bars citizens who don’t have a proper photo ID from casting a ballot. Keeps those who can vote voting and those who can't wont'.
Eliminating same-day voter registration, which allowed residents to register at the polls. Plenty of time is afforded them, screw the lolligaggers...
Cutting early voting by a full week.Cut it out all together
Increasing the influence of money in elections by raising the maximum campaign contribution to $5,000 and increasing the limit every two years. momma needs a new pair of shoes
Making it easier for voter suppression groups like True The Vote to challenge any voterwho they think may be ineligible by requiring that challengers simply be registered in the same county, rather than precinct, of those they challenge.making it harder for the vote early vote often crowd
Vastly increasing the number of “poll observers” and increasing what they’re permitted to do. In 2012, ThinkProgress caught the Romney campaign training such poll observers using highly misleading information. So the NBP won't be allowed their night sticks or will they?
Only permitting citizens to vote in their specific precinct, rather than casting a ballot in any nearby ward or election district. This can lead to widespread confusion, particularly in urban areas where many precincts can often be housed in the same building. Vote early vote often crowd won't like this
Barring young adults from pre-registering as 16- and 17-year-olds, which is permitted by current law, and repealing a state directive that high schools conduct voter registration drives in order to boost turnout among young voters. The legal voting age is 18
Prohibiting some types of paid voter registration drives, which tend to register poor and minority citizens. tends to promote voter fraud too
Dismantling three state public financing programs, including the landmark program that funded judicial elections.judges need to be swapped every election anyway
Weakening disclosure requirements for outside spending groups.
Preventing counties from extending polling hours in the event of long lines or other extraordinary circumstances and making it more difficult for them to accommodate elderly or disabled voters with satellite polling sites at nursing homes, for instance.Restaurants don't extend hours for the elderly they give them early bird specials

Nothing is unreasonable in any of this.

 

[Misterveritis]

So you mean that voter drives can sometimes add political advantage to a specific party, depending on where and when it exists? I would not have guessed. I would also suppose it would be highly desirable for number crunchers on the other side to try to even the odds through whatever legal avenues available, huh?

In high school, even if you want to talk about the silliness of registering 16 or even 17 year olds, there are a number of 18 year olds that are eligible to vote. In the high school curriculum it is heavily demanded that schools teach and encourage civic responsibility. This is one means of doing so.

Of course young people are idealistic and fickle. That's why for the most part I thought the Democrats needed to lessen their reliance upon young people. That being said, this isn't necessary nor is it in the best judgment. Your suggestion to raise the voting age to 25 doesn't matter in the slightest, as it is not a popular opinion in either the population or the leaders of this country, and it is unnecessarily shaping your views on voter law.

Voter drives privately funded and on your own time are fine. Registering non-voters who may become eligible one day is not.
Paying a bounty per registration should never be allowed.

 

[windowdressing]

What specific group is being unfairly suppressed bj? Does a law not apply to all equally?

good one Paul ... if I thought you were naive, I'd respond in more detail, but I know you're not ... demographics are not in the GOP's favor and unless the party moves considerably to the middle, they have but one choice - suppress the vote ...

but maybe you can humor me with some stats on voter fraud that made all these bills necessary in all these states ... Do you find it curious that it's GOP controlled legislatures passing these laws?