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nonpartisan research: tax cuts won't fix economy

SheWolf

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/business/economy/11tax.html?_r=1&src=busln

After analyzing tax policies they conclude, tax cutting won't fix economy or reduce unemployment.

They gave high marks to an Obama proposal.. to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of invest costs

But they went further and said that reducing payroll taxes and payments to Social Security and unemployed will stimulate the economy more than anything.

The article also says that politicians are reluctant advocate further stimulus, so neither party has guts. They are both going to stick to old, misguided rhetoric, than really try to fix something.

At least the politicians will have jobs I guess..
 

TurtleDude

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/business/economy/11tax.html?_r=1&src=busln

After analyzing tax policies they conclude, tax cutting won't fix economy or reduce unemployment.

They gave high marks to an Obama proposal.. to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of invest costs

But they went further and said that reducing payroll taxes and payments to Social Security and unemployed will stimulate the economy more than anything.

The article also says that politicians are reluctant advocate further stimulus, so neither party has guts. They are both going to stick to old, misguided rhetoric, than really try to fix something.

At least the politicians will have jobs I guess..
jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster

the only way to fix the economy is to make those who continue to vote for more and more socialist spending to take a beating in their income by doing that

as long as the majority of voters who want more government expect the top 2% to continue to fund their entitlement wet dreams these voters will never stop voting for socialist politicians

raising taxes on the wealthy won't end the deficits because that scheme will do nothing to cut government spending and actually encourages more government spending
 

Simon W. Moon

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TurtleDude said:
jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster
The office gave higher marks to the proposal, now embraced by President Obama, to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of their investment costs.
Neither of those options, though, would do as much to stimulate the economy as offering direct payments to the unemployed and Social Security recipients or reducing the payroll taxes of workers, the study found.
One curious omission in the Obama plan is the tax cut proposal that many, including the Congressional Budget Office, believe would do the most to spur hiring: a payroll tax holiday.
Maybe the CBO has ideas different than what you think they have.
 
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jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster
TurtleDude I agree that "jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster". But who actually drives the economy? Is it that top 1%er in income, or is it the other 99% of us who actually build stuff and design stuff and directly start businesses and directly manage businesses? Is it possible that the top 1% contribute more than the other 99%?

the only way to fix the economy is to make those who continue to vote for more and more socialist spending to take a beating in their income by doing that

as long as the majority of voters who want more government expect the top 2% to continue to fund their entitlement wet dreams these voters will never stop voting for socialist politicians

raising taxes on the wealthy won't end the deficits because that scheme will do nothing to cut government spending and actually encourages more government spending
I agree with that also, to a certain degree.

But at the same time, lowering taxes on the wealthy isn't gonna fix anything. There are even some very well recognized right wing economists like Ben Stein who agree with me - but they rarely will publicly speak to that fact because they fear being belittled by the other little conservative boys and girls. I once hear Stein say something to the effect of "tax policy concerning the wealthy has little bearing on our economy" on Fox News and the camera immediately cut to another speaker who then changed the topic. Far right wingers just don't want to go there, even if they know it to be true.
 

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The office gave higher marks to the proposal, now embraced by President Obama, to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of their investment costs.​


The funny thing is that most small busineses already have that "write off". Last time I checked the section 179 deduction allows a 100% immediate deduction for most equipment purchases up to $250k/yr - that amount exceeds what most small businesses spend each year on equipment purchases. I will rarely purchase more than a couple pieces of expensive equipment in any given year and the highest price piece of individual equipment that I have ever purchased was $65k.​
 

hazlnut

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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/business/economy/11tax.html?_r=1&src=busln

After analyzing tax policies they conclude, tax cutting won't fix economy or reduce unemployment.

They gave high marks to an Obama proposal.. to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of invest costs

But they went further and said that reducing payroll taxes and payments to Social Security and unemployed will stimulate the economy more than anything.

The article also says that politicians are reluctant advocate further stimulus, so neither party has guts. They are both going to stick to old, misguided rhetoric, than really try to fix something.

At least the politicians will have jobs I guess..
If/when the GOP regains the majority, they'll just have to come up with a weak stimulus and call it something else... Maximus. The Maximus-taximus.

They'll call public works projects - Patriot Projects.

And they'll call their earmarks and pork - Empowerments to the states.

Hopefully they won't try to sell us another unfunded war.

Just shows you how brilliant Reagan was: (before election) No new taxes... (after election)...what I meant was...
 

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The office gave higher marks to the proposal, now embraced by President Obama, to allow small businesses to write off 100 percent of their investment costs.
Neither of those options, though, would do as much to stimulate the economy as offering direct payments to the unemployed and Social Security recipients or reducing the payroll taxes of workers, the study found.
One curious omission in the Obama plan is the tax cut proposal that many, including the Congressional Budget Office, believe would do the most to spur hiring: a payroll tax holiday.
Maybe the CBO has ideas different than what you think they have.
You may know that companies alreadt are allowed to write off 100% of their capital expenditures. This accelerates the write off. Also it is for one year only, so we will do with capial spending what we did with car for clunkers. That is some investment will be shifted from 2012 to 2011, but we will pay for not only that one year artificial bump, but will pay for the investments that would have been made anyway.

It would be great if the media would point out this shell game. It would be better if the electorate was economically literate so they understood the game being played.
 

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jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster

the only way to fix the economy is to make those who continue to vote for more and more socialist spending to take a beating in their income by doing that

as long as the majority of voters who want more government expect the top 2% to continue to fund their entitlement wet dreams these voters will never stop voting for socialist politicians

raising taxes on the wealthy won't end the deficits because that scheme will do nothing to cut government spending and actually encourages more government spending
CBO isn't advocating tax increases or tax cuts to fix the economy.. they are saying that there are better remedies, but neither party has the guts to tell the voters the truth..

But out of curiosity.. what is socialist spending in your opinion?
 

SheWolf

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If/when the GOP regains the majority, they'll just have to come up with a weak stimulus and call it something else... Maximus. The Maximus-taximus.

They'll call public works projects - Patriot Projects.

And they'll call their earmarks and pork - Empowerments to the states.

Hopefully they won't try to sell us another unfunded war.

Just shows you how brilliant Reagan was: (before election) No new taxes... (after election)...what I meant was...
I LOL'ed @ Patriot Projects... I can actually see that happening too
 

SheWolf

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TurtleDude I agree that "jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster". But who actually drives the economy? Is it that top 1%er in income, or is it the other 99% of us who actually build stuff and design stuff and directly start businesses and directly manage businesses? Is it possible that the top 1% contribute more than the other 99%?
Who drives the economy?

Consumers and the middle class.. If the middle class doesn't have purchasing power, then the business execs and CEOs in the top 2% won't have a reason to stay in business. A widening gap between rich and poor should be seen as a warning that market instability is soon to follow. Such a gap was noted before both major recessions in America.

Yes businesses create jobs, when the economy is growing and people are spending cash. Giving businesses tax cuts is entirely pointless if there is no demand or consumption in the economy.

Giving corporate America a tax cut in this economy makes as much sense as bailing them out, except bailing them out probably gave them more cash. Did all that extra cash in corporate hands trickle down and create jobs for Americans??
 

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The funny thing is that most small busineses already have that "write off". Last time I checked the section 179 deduction allows a 100% immediate deduction for most equipment purchases up to $250k/yr - that amount exceeds what most small businesses spend each year on equipment purchases. I will rarely purchase more than a couple pieces of expensive equipment in any given year and the highest price piece of individual equipment that I have ever purchased was $65k.
Write the CBO. Explain their error.
Or read their report and find out what the differences between current situation and the proposals are.
I'm not pretending to know. Nor am I endorsing anything. Just pointing out what the article says the CBO said.
 

TurtleDude

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TurtleDude I agree that "jacking up taxes on the people who drive the economy will be a disaster". But who actually drives the economy? Is it that top 1%er in income, or is it the other 99% of us who actually build stuff and design stuff and directly start businesses and directly manage businesses? Is it possible that the top 1% contribute more than the other 99%?



I agree with that also, to a certain degree.

But at the same time, lowering taxes on the wealthy isn't gonna fix anything. There are even some very well recognized right wing economists like Ben Stein who agree with me - but they rarely will publicly speak to that fact because they fear being belittled by the other little conservative boys and girls. I once hear Stein say something to the effect of "tax policy concerning the wealthy has little bearing on our economy" on Fox News and the camera immediately cut to another speaker who then changed the topic. Far right wingers just don't want to go there, even if they know it to be true.
there is no advantage to jacking up taxes on the wealthy and Laffer has predicted a disaster if those taxes are raised. I tend to believe him over Stein. besides there are fundamental concepts of fairness that motivate my position-its unfair to make a group that makes 22% of the income pay 40% of the income tax and the tax hikes will make that even higher
 

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Who drives the economy?

Consumers and the middle class.. If the middle class doesn't have purchasing power, then the business execs and CEOs in the top 2% won't have a reason to stay in business. A widening gap between rich and poor should be seen as a warning that market instability is soon to follow. Such a gap was noted before both major recessions in America.

Yes businesses create jobs, when the economy is growing and people are spending cash. Giving businesses tax cuts is entirely pointless if there is no demand or consumption in the economy.

Giving corporate America a tax cut in this economy makes as much sense as bailing them out, except bailing them out probably gave them more cash. Did all that extra cash in corporate hands trickle down and create jobs for Americans??
you don't seem to understand the point that it is unsustainable to continue to expect a small minority of voters to pay more and more taxes to fund out of control government spending because that scheme contains no deterrent for the majority of voters to put an end to the runaway spending
 

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A more apt title would be

THE OBAMA/CLINTON TAX HIKES WON'T FIX THE ECONOMY BUT COULD WELL WRECK IT
 

hazlnut

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you don't seem to understand the point that it is unsustainable to continue to expect a small minority of voters to pay more and more taxes to fund out of control government spending because that scheme contains no deterrent for the majority of voters to put an end to the runaway spending
Read: "article contradicts world view, must engage talking point defense....head exploding, everything I think I know is wrong...help..."
 

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A more apt title would be

THE OBAMA/CLINTON TAX HIKES WON'T FIX THE ECONOMY BUT COULD WELL WRECK IT
No.. they are saying tax policy won't fix the economy
 

SheWolf

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there is no advantage to jacking up taxes on the wealthy and Laffer has predicted a disaster if those taxes are raised. I tend to believe him over Stein. besides there are fundamental concepts of fairness that motivate my position-its unfair to make a group that makes 22% of the income pay 40% of the income tax and the tax hikes will make that even higher
The Laffer curve doesn't support continual cutting of taxes.. The curve predicts equal amount of disaster if taxes are too high or too low. Laffer curve supports the idea that tax cuts have to stop somewhere because the government will lose revenue. Cutting taxes is only appropriate when on the right side of the curve, and raising taxes is appropriate when on the left side of the curve.
 

hazlnut

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The Laffer curve doesn't support continual cutting of taxes.. The curve predicts equal amount of disaster if taxes are too high or too low. Laffer curve supports the idea that tax cuts have to stop somewhere because the government will lose revenue. Cutting taxes is only appropriate when on the right side of the curve, and raising taxes is appropriate when on the left side of the curve.
SheWolf:

Save your breath.

Turtle has no clue what the Laffer curve is. Trust me, I've been through this with him already. I posted pages of examples trying to discuss some basic economic principles of Gov-biz partnership etc. He only knows that 40% of tax revenue comes from the wealthiest 2% and that's unfair in his mind...

'redistribution of wealth'...'evil estate tax'... He's a broken record of talk radio Obama=Robin Hood nonsense.
 

Aunt Spiker

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I'm confused

Neither of those options, though, would do as much to stimulate the economy as offering direct payments to the unemployed and Social Security recipients or reducing the payroll taxes of workers, the study found.
Direct payments to the unemployed - as opposed to what?
Direct payments to Social security recipients - as opposed to what?

I'm assuming that they're referring to the way the money is paid out - after time has gone by:

SS brings in surplus which the government buys up and spends. . . with an IOU + interest.
Later - years and years later - the government then pays *back* that IOU + accrued interest.

I'm presuming, then, that they're saying "pay it back more quickly" . . . so there's *less* accrued interest to pay back.

Right?
 

TurtleDude

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Read: "article contradicts world view, must engage talking point defense....head exploding, everything I think I know is wrong...help..."
moronic to the point of ignore button imminent

evasion is the sign of someone unable to deal wth reality

your evasions as to your profession is rather telling
 

TurtleDude

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The Laffer curve doesn't support continual cutting of taxes.. The curve predicts equal amount of disaster if taxes are too high or too low. Laffer curve supports the idea that tax cuts have to stop somewhere because the government will lose revenue. Cutting taxes is only appropriate when on the right side of the curve, and raising taxes is appropriate when on the left side of the curve.
I agree-I have never said there should be no taxes-I am not an anarchist. I oppose the power congress gets from a progressive income tax.
 

TurtleDude

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SheWolf:

Save your breath.

Turtle has no clue what the Laffer curve is. Trust me, I've been through this with him already. I posted pages of examples trying to discuss some basic economic principles of Gov-biz partnership etc. He only knows that 40% of tax revenue comes from the wealthiest 2% and that's unfair in his mind...

'redistribution of wealth'...'evil estate tax'... He's a broken record of talk radio Obama=Robin Hood nonsense.
your arrogance is getting annoying. I would be happy to compare education and my CV with you any day of the week but you apparently are unable to even tell us your profession. Not only do I know what the laffer curve is, I know the man in question given his nephew was one of my better friends at Yale and due to that I was able to have dinner with the economist at least twice when he spoke to the yale politican union when I was an officer of that organization. You not only are wrong you lie about what I have said-the top ONE (read ONE NOT TWO) percent pay forty percent of the income tax.

your posts are that of an envious whiner
 

hazlnut

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your arrogance is getting annoying. I would be happy to compare education and my CV with you any day of the week but you apparently are unable to even tell us your profession. Not only do I know what the laffer curve is, I know the man in question given his nephew was one of my better friends at Yale and due to that I was able to have dinner with the economist at least twice when he spoke to the yale politican union when I was an officer of that organization. You not only are wrong you lie about what I have said-the top ONE (read ONE NOT TWO) percent pay forty percent of the income tax.
Yale...:lamo:lamo

your posts are that of an envious whiner
yours are of a phony, talk radio fan trying to pretend he knows something...

Prove it. Write an actual post that doesn't include the partisan nonsense we've all heard repeated on Rush, Hannity, etc. Write something that actually addresses a specific point. Your answers are just broken record, Hannity copy/pastes. You repeat them like they mean something. They don't.

Give us an original analysis of the OP.

Prove you're as educated as you say.

Right now your little strings of hyper-partisan talking points don't prove crap!
 

TurtleDude

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Yale...:lamo:lamo



yours are of a phony, talk radio fan trying to pretend he knows something...

Prove it. Write an actual post that doesn't include the partisan nonsense we've all heard repeated on Rush, Hannity, etc. Write something that actually addresses a specific point. Your answers are just broken record, Hannity copy/pastes. You repeat them like they mean something. They don't.

Give us an original analysis of the OP.

Prove you're as educated as you say.

Right now your little strings of hyper-partisan talking points don't prove crap!
ten grand little man-put up or shut up

you sound like you received alot of thin envelopes from college admission offices
 

hazlnut

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ten grand little man-put up or shut up

you sound like you received alot of thin envelopes from college admission offices
Give us an original (non-talking point) analysis of the OP... or get lost. Dazzle us with your expertise. Do you even know what thread you're in or what the topic is?? Because every post in every thread sound exactly the same.

You can't write or debate.

You haven't demonstrated any critical thinking skills that I can see.

You don't have a JD.:lamo:lamo

Fraud, phony, fake.

The Yale Bullcrappers.
 
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