Non-separation of church and State.

[randel]

I don’t think there should be a separation. Our country was founded on religion. It would help unite our country as well as restore morals and values.

you have the freedom to practice your religion, but should not be able to force your beliefs on others.

 

[digitusmedius]

I don’t think there should be a separation. Our country was founded on religion. It would help unite our country as well as restore morals and values.

What country would that be? It certainly isn't the USA. The first clause of the first amendment to the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That couldn't be any clearer: the USA is not founded on any religion and no religious belief is to be favored over another or any lack of religious belief.

 

[digitusmedius]

Have you thought this through?

Clearly no thought or facts were at work there.

 

[dixon01767]

The Treaty of Tripoli makes it very clear that the US was never - in any sense - founded on the Christian Religion, and that is in fact the law of the land and has been for 224 years.

Actually it says the GOVERNMENT wasn't founded upon the Christian religion. Christianity doesn't concern itself with governance. Id say a proper Christian "NATION" would have a government similar to ours. . "My kingdom is not of this world", "render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's' , "obey all authorities instituted among men" and all of that.

 

[digitusmedius]

Actually it says the GOVERNMENT wasn't founded upon the Christian religion. Christianity doesn't concern itself with governance. Id say a proper Christian "NATION" would have a government similar to ours. . "My kingdom is not of this world", "render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's' , "obey all authorities instituted among men" and all of that.

It's pretty clear that when rightwing Christians claim the US is a "Christian" nation they're not just talking about demographics. Consistent with their religious bent they mean it literally in the governmental sense. They're not known for nuance on this, or almost any, subject.

 

[dixon01767]

It's pretty clear that when rightwing Christians claim the US is a "Christian" nation they're not just talking about demographics. Consistent with their religious bent they mean it literally in the governmental sense. They're not known for nuance on this, or almost any, subject.

Conservatives are referring to our "NATION'. As a progressive, government defines a nation. For a conservative it is defined by the people.

 

[digitusmedius]

As a progressive, government the Constitution defines a our nation.

Edited for accuracy.
When you conservatives define the nation as "the people" it has traditionally meant those of "Protestant Western Europeans" and for far too many of you that's still how it's defined. In fact, it's the demographic dwindling of those people is what's driving so much white extremism in this country.

 

[dixon01767]

When you conservatives define the nation as "the people" it has traditionally meant "white Europeans" and for far too many conservatives that's still how it's defined.

No, it means 70+% white Europeans, although I wouldn't place the same significance of the color of those people as you do.

 

[digitusmedius]

No, it means 70+% white Europeans, although I wouldn't place the same significance of the color of those people as you do.

So first you don't deny (although you exaggerate the current proportion*) of this having been initially settled by and up to recently a predominantly white, Protestant nation demographically and then claim it has no significance. That's both very odd and very telling at the same time. It's also telling that you completely ignored the effect that dwindling demographic is fueling the right wing extremism in this country. It's quite natural for a group losing political and social power to react that way. It's just not acceptable in a multi-ethnic/racial republican constitutional democracy based on equality for all under the law.

*White Christian America ended in the 2010s

 

[weaver2]

We are a nation of laws and the laws that define us are described in the Constitution. Digititusmedius is correct about conservative Christians, they believe that government is a creation of God and the role of government is to uphold God's rules. This belief is based on the religious writings of John Calvin. Let the mission statements of some conservative Christian organization inform you:

Mission statement of the National Association of Evangelicals: “Evangelicals believe that government is a gift from God for the common good. Good governance creates the conditions in which human beings fulfill their responsibilities as God’s image bearers and as stewards of God’s creation.”

Mission and Work - National Association of Evangelicals

Church and Faith The National Association of Evangelicals works to make denominations, churches and ministries strong and effective. The NAE strategically focuses on encouraging, resourcing and enriching denominational, nonprofit, school and church leaders. With a great breadth and diversity of...

www.nae.net

“Focus on the Family”position statement on Church and State: God has ordained all social institutions, including the government, for the benefit of mankind and as a reflection of His divine nature. Therefore, Christians are called to support these institutions, according to God’s design and purpose, and to protect them against destructive social influences. Such involvement is in obedience to Christ’s lordship over all creation and is required by His command to care for the well-being of all people. The Supreme Court's imposition of the doctrine of separation of church and state distorts the Founding Father's recognition of our unequivocally Christian nation and the protection of religious freedom for all faiths.

Foundational Values

Our Vision Redeemed families worldwide through Christ. Our Mission To be led by the Holy Spirit in sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ with as many people as possible by nurturing and affirming the God-ordained institution of the family and proclaiming biblical truths worldwide. Ultimately, we...

www.focusonthefamily.com

All About GOD Ministries, Inc, The role of government : “According to the Biblical Christian worldview, human government was instituted by God to protect our unalienable rights from our own selfish tendencies. ……. Government has its role, and it should allow other God-ordained institutions the freedom to perform their roles as well”.

It is up to Christians to “restore once again to America a biblically based legal system that protects all human life from conception to natural death,” (Cultural Impact Team Resource Manuel)
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/ottawa-canada-may-12-2011-thousands-397434010

"...... the church and the state each have God-given roles. Biblically, the state exists to uphold righteousness and thereby, punish evil. If left alone in the vacuum of anarchy, wickedness would overwhelm the world, perhaps similar to the days of Noah. The purpose of government is not to change hearts—it is to keep evil in check, to prevent wickedness to fulfilling its every desire. ........ the state is ultimately accountable to God—not to the people or any leader. Thus, the state must uphold legislation that honors the Lord. John Calvin " The Institutes of the Christian Religion" 1536 AD

 

[dixon01767]

So first you don't deny (although you exaggerate the current proportion*)…..

70+% isn't an exaggeration of 76%

U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: United States

Frequently requested statistics for: United States

www.census.gov

 

[digitusmedius]

70+% isn't an exaggeration of 76%

U.S. Census Bureau QuickFacts: United States

Frequently requested statistics for: United States

www.census.gov

Doesn't matter if it were 99%. In our constitutional republican democracy there's no room for dictatorship by the majority. As to the 76% that may still be based on the number of people who identify as predominantly white (which a lot of hispanics do as well as many mixed race respondents to the census). But it is definitely not what I referred to particularly, i.e., the percentage of whites who identify as Christian (mostly Protestant) in the country:
In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

 

[dixon01767]

Doesn't matter if it were 99%. In our constitutional republican democracy there's no room for dictatorship by the majority.

No one claimed there was. Ill wait here while you slay that strawman.

 

[digitusmedius]

No one claimed there was. Ill wait here while you slay that strawman.

I just addressed above your strawman of the census number for self-identified total white percentage. Please refer to my response to that strawman.

 

[Glitch]

Actually it says the GOVERNMENT wasn't founded upon the Christian religion. Christianity doesn't concern itself with governance. Id say a proper Christian "NATION" would have a government similar to ours. . "My kingdom is not of this world", "render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's' , "obey all authorities instituted among men" and all of that.

You do comprehend that "government" means the government of the United States of America, right? The US is a secular nation. The constitution of the US was specifically established to be secular by the founders. The US does not advocate for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any particular religion, but instead accepts them all equally.

 

[dixon01767]

You do comprehend that "government" means the government of the United States of America, right?

Yes. Stupid question, hopefully not indicative of the rest of your post

The US is a secular nation.

Secular government. Evidently for you also, a nation consists of its government.

The constitution of the US was specifically established to be secular by the founders. The US does not advocate for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any particular religion, but instead accepts them all equally.

Like- Galatians 3:28: “There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus”

Like I said, Christianity doesnt concern itself with governance. A proper government of a nation with a strong majority of Christians would be something similar to what we have.

 

[digitusmedius]

Like I said, Christianity doesnt concern itself with governance. A proper government of a nation with a strong majority of Christians would be something similar to what we have.

The current Russian government meets that low bar:
Religion in Russia
Keep on digging the hole you're standing in. It's entertaining us all.

 

[Valery]

The US does not advocate for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any particular religion, but instead accepts them all equally.

And Christianity 10 times more than any other.

 

[digitusmedius]

And Christianity 10 times more than any other.

WTF?

 

[Logician Man]

It is gravely evil for a married person to refuse their spouse sex and the law should not be regulating this.

WOW! just WOW!

 

[NoahUSA]

I don’t think there should be a separation. Our country was founded on religion. It would help unite our country as well as restore morals and values.

America should be purely Christian. This is what the country was founded on and if we get away from that we will all be in for one hell (literally) of a ride from God. We must convert. Join or Die will become the new motto of the Christian front in America as we become more "Left or Die". You get canceled and dishonored, even fired of you aren't "inclusive". We must reform America and make it the most powerful, Christian country in the world. God bless America.

 

[Logician Man]

America should be purely Christian. This is what the country was founded on and if we get away from that we will all be in for one hell (literally) of a ride from God. We must convert. Join or Die will become the new motto of the Christian front in America as we become more "Left or Die". You get canceled and dishonored, even fired of you aren't "inclusive". We must reform America and make it the most powerful, Christian country in the world. God bless America.

Welcome to DP, Noah. Why should America "be purely Christian" in 2021?

 

[Peter]

The idea of a separation was in place when the country was founded, because you had Catholics in Maryland, Quakers in Pennsylvania and so on. The idea was not to make any religious organization supreme, like the Church of England. While most of the founder fathers were theists, if not Christians, religion and one organized, official church are different things entirely. There isn't technically a separation of religion and state. There is a chaplain of the senate.

The Church of England really doesn't have much sway in the UK.
The UK is secular and really not very religious at all. Also, The Church of England doesn't really do politics like American churches anyway as it's not our style.

 

[weaver2]

Welcome to DP, Noah. Why should America "be purely Christian" in 2021?

Another question for Noah is: how do you intend to make America purely Christian since from the very beginning we were not pure Christian.

 

[NoahUSA]

Welcome to DP, Noah. Why should America "be purely Christian" in 2021?

Well, The United States of America was founded on Christian principles and inspired by God himself, it is the promised land. This is why. The how is a whole other matter. Converting the entire country into one religion would be very difficult, but not impossible. There are already countries in the world that have a state religion and where most of the population is one religion. It could also be implemented by working from state to state making each state officially Christian. There is nothing in the Constitution that says an individual state cannot establish a religion. Also, separation of church and state is not in the constitution either but is how the courts have, to this point, interpreted it. If the courts view could be change it would open way to establishing a state religion. And to why, in 2021, it should be Christian is things in this world are falling away from God and decent society. Things such as homosexuality are embraced instead of taught as wrong and hurtful to society.